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OK, I'll start by saying I'm not an expert in this stuff, I've just asked around quite a bit. The big thing to realize when looking at snake bite first aid protocol is that 1. its written to be relatively simply and easy to understand and that 2. it's often oriented towards the neroutoxic snakes. So, now getting to these comments. All three are correct for diamondbacks (hemotoxic). Circulation should not be reduced in any way, be that compress, rubber bands, ice, or lowering of the limb. There is little danger of the toxins reducing cardio or respitory function to a lethal level and reducing the concentration will reduce local damage. Most diamondback bites do not recieve antivenom not only because of the cost, but more so beacause of a high risk of an anaphyactic reaction to the antivenom. Most diamondback bites are not lethal. Snakebite kits (even the sucker type) do little to remove toxins. Poke a hole in an orange with a pin (or two holes...) and suck. You'll get nothing. Follow up with vodka or gin. Generally, first adi should focus on evacuation post haste with basic life support. Split (for pain) if it does not delay evac. Anticipate and treat for vascular shock. Pain meds are good. If possible, mark the margins of the swelling/discoloration and note times during evac. (This helps estimate the quantity of venom.)

AK all the way I will say I don't feel this way, just thought it was funny.

I think many people's frustration w/ fatties is based on the assumption they could have done something about being overweight, like change the diet or increased activity. I know there are people who have medical conditions that put this out of their control, but I also see fat people at the store buying chips and junk food, then getting in their car and driving home. I'd figure most of the overweight in the US could reduce their problem with a change in lifestyle. And when someone else let's their shit slip and their problem becomes everyone elses problem, people start to judge them. Seems pretty standard. But, all this said, I'd like to think I agree most with what Chuck said. Compassion is the high road.

http://www.break.com/movies/snowboardjump10.html wait for the second drop

Hey, how about a new discussion form: "Creepy Yard Stalkers?"

and gas. mixed 3 parts diesel to one part gas. 4:1 for dry shit.

working late kicks ass at time and a half. work hourly, go home after eight hours, or quit whining.

I love peshastin! I have many fond memories of getting out of school, cruisin' up there and getting in a few pitches in before the close time. We even had the ranger call us on his PA and with an annoyed tone ask us to lock the gate on our way out! I remember balmy fall and spring evenings looking up the valley towards leavenworth and seeing dark hovering clouds. I was always amazed at how different the climates were for just a ten mile difference. I also really liked how the climbing there was all about focusing, not avoiding the pump. Making the first clip on cajun queen... yes!

Note that if you plan on getting a non-catastrophic plan at some point (say, through a future employer), the catastrophic insurance will not eliminate the need for a waiting period. That is, if you have a regular, non-cat plan on your own then get a fancy plan thru a future employer, there will be no waiting for full coverage. On the other hand, if you only have a cat. plan yourself, then are offered coverage through a future employer, you could have to wait for treatment. Oh, and all this is for pre-existing conditions. Also, all of this is what I remember from my little search a year or so ago. I'm no expert and you shouldn't use my advise as your only source. Call the insurance companies and ask about what I've said above. And don't sue me.

anyone ever heard that Steve Matin routine about investing in cardboard? "I bought ten tons at fifty cents a ton... it's up to 52 cents... I kkep it in my house" classic old school steve martin.

I don't know if your joking or what but what you've listed is about 2-3 times as much as I've ever brought to frenchmans. I've climbed there fine with singles of nuts, singles of cams tiny thru big, oh, and a couple of med-big hexes (I never use 'cause they make that noise) and I've never had a problem. I see you've got some long runners... I think you've fine. Just my opinion. And I'm not a ripper climber. I'd guess the "no nuts at Vantage" thing is because the vantage basalt is so "slick" or flat that nuts are pretty easy to dislodge. Maybe too because the cracks tend to be more parallel than granite cracks... I'd still bring them. Probably the biggestthing you need to start worrying about is bringing a shit load of wood or a propane heater. It was pretty cold this morning in Entiat.

My opinion is that the fire at peshastin did not significantly affect the interity of the bolts. Why? It all comes down to heat and temperature. First and most importantly, the fuel loading (the total amount of carbon available for combustion) at Peshatin was (and is) tiny. We're talking hundereds of times less than, say, the Icicle. There's just less heat released there. Second, the fuel type at Peshastin is light and quick burning with little residence time. The heat at the surface of the rock would have had little time to penetrate. And finally, the open, less steep terrain at Peshatin would have disipated the heat more readily than he steeper,more chimneyed slopes of the Icicle. I'd bet that just one year's worth of freeze/thaw weathering compromised the bolts at peshastin more than last year's fire.

Actually, I think he's trying to tell us that not only germans are tools (or dolts)...

For those of you following this hot topic, I got some info from Clair Button, a botanist for the BLM stationed out of.... somewhere around Hell's Canyon. Here's what he had to say: and the photo he sent me:

Found it on mesa above the Snake River in Hell's Canyon. open areas with lots of sun and little water. 6" dia, 1' tall clumps. Smelled a bit like mint. Sorry the photos are so shitty.

Early in May my buddy Charlie and I went to Peshastin to check out the "new" Far West Sunset Slabs. We found the routes to be typical of Peshastin and worth the couple of hours of monkeying around. The most recent Leavenworth guide has an improved description of the area and describes the routes well enought but I'll add my comments (l to r): Cinderella Story, 5.9: The best and most straight forward route. Classic Peshastin padding! Bring a long runner for the last clip. Original Route, 5.8: Runout over the inital 30 feet or so, then some sketchy gear, then new bolt(s). Do-able for the experienced leader who pays attention to the exposure. The Story of My Life, 5.11c: Too hard for me. Worked the moves on TR and it seemed the bolts were in good places with no major runouts. In general, the gear one may finagle here would probably be marginal, LOTS of decomposed rock at the to, bring some light colored slings for the bolt anchor station, and tread very lightly on the way in and out: recent fire activity has severely loosened the soil. For me, the quickest and most rewarding method here is to lead the 5.9, then TR the other two. And of course, if you don't like the sandy, slabby, chossy, bolted nature of Peshastin, you probably won't like these routes. For the rest of us, enjoy!

I'm curious about the cable fatiguing where it bends...

I left a pair of brown smith empires at the base of godzilla or Japanes gardens last monday or tuesday. give me a call if you have them and want to get them back to me. dave 303.818.8568

Ivan (and others...), please take no offense, but... I have to say I think it's fine (no pun intended) they're standing solid on their claims. I bet the back of your ticket says something like "If you don't pay us, we'll bust your balls." And they have to do it. Why? "cause if they didn't people wouldn't pay and the whoe fucking thing would be a REAL joke. Don't get me wrong, I think the forest pas thing has it's problems and I'm not sure we should be paying (see note below), but I'm glad they at least stick by the rules they've been established. It's only fair to those who exert extra effort/money to follow the rules that those who don't spend the money/jump through the hoops pay for it (anarchists: I'll choose not to listen to you. Call me ignorant. I don't care...) The flip side of it is the parking a mile from the trailhead thing: they know what your doing but just have to accept it 'cause we all play by the rules! The note about paying: I use nf's, parks, and campsites and never pay, and use downtown parking spots often and rarely pay. But I never bitch when I get a ticket. I broke the rules and I'll take the consequences. I'll close by once again saying don't take my comments as an insult, simply my take on enforcement.

Looking for partner(s) for Tuesday or Wednesday in Leavenworth or Pinnicles. Looking to get in a day at Sam Hill. rack, rope, etc. available. Call or email if interested. dave grouchous_rex at yahoo.com 303.818.8568

Cross posted: A quick note: Have some humility and ask your friends personally in an email. I sent the following out to my climbing friends who I know will appreciate saving Sam Hill. We're so frickin' close! Lets do this!

A quick note: Have some humility and ask your friends personally in an email. I sent the following out to my climbing friends who I know will appreciate saving Sam Hill. We're so frickin' close! Lets do this!

Somebody told me the buckets 2/3 the way up Dr Leaky on Dinosaur Tower were chipped. They might have even told me they were chipped by the FA (unsubstantiated rumor!!!). Anybody know anything about this?

young grasshopper: you not choose climb. Climb choose you.

How come nobodies mentioned the mulligan?