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Question: What is WWI? Thank you.

http://www.supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=deinotto Otto's Route on Independance Spire. 5.9 II, five pitches Moderate 'cause only 2% of the routes 5.9 and thet's 'cause you have to do a pull up. Why clasic? History. Scenery. A nice hike. Great weather. Protects awesome. Amazing panorama from the top. And chopped steps.

Did you mean to so "Ruining water is running our lives"?

[quote=bwrts Hey Darryl Cramer- what gives with the slab routes near GCtower? I think I read about them somewhere else stating you as the creator of the routes. I'm not Cramer and I'm not even convinced this is what you're talking about, but "slab routes near GCT" is close enough for me. If you're looking for some new and obscure-ish slab routes near GCT.... http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/34089/Number/463679#Post463679 I love the pinnicles.

For hot days in the icicle, fill a nalgene 1/2 with grapes, 1/2 with crushed ice and top off with water. By mid day, the ice will be a cool sip of water, the grapes will be a nice sweet treat, and the whole thing won't weight anything more than a bottle of water.

Nice! Although I've always chuckled at the possible misinterpretations for the snoop-talk.

I stayed in a gravel pit campground in the early 90's that I thikn is now closed. It was way better than the current BLM site, but I can understand why they can't keep the dirtbag lot open. Too bad. I pretty much don't go to RR because I don't feel like dealing with the issue. To me, it's funny how (generalizations here) climbers incorporate into their "brand" an element dirtbagdom: living in your van off a food bank bagel is THE SHIT! And this comes in such direct conflict with "The Man's Plan". Federal workerd are really between a rock and a hard place when it comes to recreation management (yeah, they got themselves there but that's the agency as a whole, not the employees.) It seems like of all the user groups I'm part of (hikers, mtb's, climbing, conservationists, etc...), I hear the most whining about the rudeness of campground hosts from the climbers. And it's no wonder host can be testy: climbers are dicks.

and they know their shit if you ever have questions! The first one just doesn't sound very flattering.

I believe we should invest in technology/development for a process to efficiently convert bush meat into car fuel. And trucks. I hear there are a lot of trucks in Africa.

Not free but no hassle: Confluence state park on the north end of wenatchee has quarter operated showers and they're pretty long lasting and warm Look outside of the upper wenatchee valley (i.e. lower wenatchee valley, entiat river, blewett pass, number 1 and number 2 canyons, etc..) for ninja camping. I did this for several summers working out of entiat and it worke dout. just keep rotating sites every two or three days and keep a low profile.

What does this mean?

BS

Trip: Hog Loppet (Mission Ridge to Blewett Pass) - Date: 2/23/2008 Trip Report: Another fun, sunny day was had by all during the 2008 Leavenworth Ski Club's Annual Hog Loppet. The route began at the Mission Ridge base area and started off with a COLD set of chair lift rides to near Mission Peak. A short descent on a groomed ski run warmed up the edges for the next two or three miles of rolling, ungroomed terrain. This year's conditions were relatively hard, but the front of the pack softened things up for the stragler's butts during the inevitable falls. Only a few sections of steep terrain were encountered and skied by nearly all. At approxiamtely three miles (varying year to year by how far the groomer can reach), skate and traditional track was encountered and the real fun began. The pack thinned out and one could really enjoy the views of Rainier, Adams, Stuart, the Enchantments, the Chiwaukums, the Columbia river, the Waterville plateau, Devils gulch, and the (smoggy) Wenatchee valley. The course overall had a net elevation loss of around 1500 ft., but was rolling in nature and involved several long gradual ascents and some exciting mile long descents. There were two aid stations roughly evenly spaced along the way with hot drinks, hot soup, snacks, fire pits, and plenty of comradery provided by the local snow machine club. The route finished with a gradual five mile descent to the Blewett pass SnoPark. The even was not intended as a race (although some people definitely ski fast) but more as a backcountry community trek, hence the Scandanavian term "loppet". This community-oriented event drew many types of skiers, ranging from jeans-wearing track skiers past the lycra'd skaters, all the way to the tele gear garbed back country rangers. Some people seemed a bit in over their heads, but the only ones not to finish on their own power this year were an ankle injury, and a couple who suffered a broken pole. Most people seemed to be off the course and back at the pubs within eight hours. Shuttle service was available out of Wenatchee and Leavenworth to the start and from the finish. More information may be found on the Leavenworth Ski Club's website. dave

Good. I'd called Metsker's Maps in SEA and the fellow said they had this book but claimed in wasn't topographic. Looking at the Backroads Books page for sw BC I see this is not true. It is, in fact, topographic. Thanks for the tip.

Good, but I'm looking for a regular ol' book.

For the last fifteen years I've been using a Delorme atlas/"gazetteer" for Washington. It's ~110 pages of 1:150,000 topographic maps with a key to corresponding USGS maps. Great stuff for the big picture when looking at cascade climbs. What I'm looking for is a BC equivalent. Anyone have any experience or recommendations? I'l;l post back later with my internet searching results. dave

Any east siders over there have any insight into the conditions for this year's Hog Loppet? I've been watching the weather but could use a local's read on the situation. thanks

The (granted, subtle) difference is the DOT is authorized to say what happens on the road, the ski patrol is granted the authority to say what happens ->within the ski area <-... Again, I'll admit this is something of a nitpick... and a diversion from the original topic. Sorry.

I'll assume you're poking fun at me (you? never) but still respond with one word: jurisdiction.

I bet two things are going on here: 1. I think the DOT wants to keeps pullout open for emergency vehicles and "let your kid puke/I've got a flat tire/I just poured hot coffee on my lap" type parking/pulling over: short term, not in the way of the plows. As to why for the last four years and not now, I bet it's a combo of lost patience and an increase in the number of "long term" parkers. 2. I think it's been discussed here before, but I didn't put my two cents in the first time. Hitchhiking on Stevens pass when there is no shoulder, on a blind corner, than nearly always has water (sometimes ice...), on a corner posted at 60 (warned to 45?) sems like a bad idea. It's siomply a matter of safety. A skier may be willing to take that risk, but the state/DOT are authorized (and in my opinion reasonable) to say "too dangerous".

What I'm getting at is they are permitted to impact the ski area, and if their "line of fire" extends beyond their permit area, somethings wrong. I have been (sort of...) I have work professionally falling trees and was constantly irritated by people wandering through my falling area. So I understand they (the patrollers) really are just concerned for my safety but still have a problem with the ski area impacting an area they have no permit for. I think this is a troll-like comment, but I'll bite anyways. I consider such "bonus acres" to be something akin to "bonus access" from roads in wilderness areas. No thanks. I'll accept my hazards and manage them on my own terms.

on a related note: mt baker ski area / BC policy (another thread in cc.com)

I was reading the avy discussion in another thread and remembered a little run in I had a few days ago at the ski area. My friend and I got up to the area around 6am on Friday (Jan 4th?) for a short dawn patrol ski tour action. The intended route left the upper parking area, paralleled the Blueberry cat track and Bagley creek towards the visitors center above the Bagley lakes, and down into the bagley lakes bowl, then returned. Just a get out and skin type tour. I've done this sort of tour (and it's many extensions) many times and firmly believe the short route is p9ssible and safe in high avalanche conditions. The problem arose when we passed some patrolers loading Chair 1. They told us they were on their way to bomb the chute, pan face, etc. and we were not allowed to access the backcountry. I told them we'd be off the cattrack, and they told us we still couldn't go there because their bombing could set off slides on Mt Herman. They repeated we were not allowed to access the backcountry and left. I didn't want to push the issue, and resigned myself to driving back to town for the late start to work. But as I drove down, I got more and more frustrated. 1. I don't think they had any authority telling us were we could ski outside of the ski area. The upper-upper parking lot is a DOT facility and "open to the public." 2. They are authorized by the USFS to bomb in the ski area. I talked to a FS employee a few days later and casually asked about the where they were allowed to bomb abd it's impacts on the BC. The FS told me their bombing was not to impact the BC. I'm fully aware it's better to be alive and wronged than dead and right. The general thing that bugs me is that the ski area seems to think they control the bc access (I will conceed that their presence is alot of what makes it possible, but it's not within their "ownership") and that their avy control would have impacts it's not allowed to. Flame on, bitches.

1. I don't have all the information, but I'd sure like to know more. 2. I too believe that when you make the invetment of going to a local shop like LMS instead of a mail order or big store, you are justified in getting better service. Guiding a customer through the purchase, from start to finsih, is the base of customer service, and it sounds like LMS botched it. If they say "you chose the wrong binding, you'lll have to eat it," I think they have established their CS level, and it's pretty low. I wouldn't even expect to get this at REI. 3. I bet this comes down to an employee with just too little xc ski experience. 4. I'd think someone @ LMS or someone close enough would read this BBS and should post a responce. Like I said in 1., I'd like to hear more about this.

I ride a bike and I drive a car. I try and consider the other user (car whenI'm biking, bike rider when I'm driving). I follow the fed/state/municiple rules outlined for my appropriate mode and expect other users to do so. If your not following the rules, you're on you own. I ride/drive defensively for those incapable/unwilling to follow the rules. I try to not road rage (on my bike or in the car). It doesn't really do any good. It's really not that hard if you let go of your preconceptions and ego.