pindude

Dane, thanks for your message. jclark, yes, the did fall. Here's the 9-25-07 AP story appearing in the Seattle Times that is mostly accurate. Main corrections are that Otto's wife's name is Susan (not Sharon), and Otto and Max were not found "in a gully" per se, but at the base of Colchuck Glacier in the very large glacial cirque area between Dragontail and Colchuck Mountains. And "cleats" are actually crampons, of course. --------- Father died of hypothermia, son of head trauma By The Associated Press WENATCHEE — Autopsies have determined that a 12-year-old Spokane boy who was mountain climbing with his father in the Cascade Mountains died from a skull fracture sustained in a fall, and that his dad suffered head injuries but died of hypothermia. Photographs indicate that Otto Vaclavek, 53, of Spokane, may have fallen between two rocks, Chelan County Coroner Wayne Harris said. He speculated that Vaclavek, an experienced mountaineer, was unable to get out from between the rocks. Vaclavek's, 12-year-old son, Max, hit his head on a rock when he fell and suffered blunt force trauma to the head. "He was wearing a helmet, but the trauma was below the helmet line," Harris said, noting that the boy probably died instantly. The two were climbing a glacier in and likely slipped on the ice, dropping 100 to 150 feet over a cliff and onto rocks below, Harris said. The two were not roped together. The two set out on Sept. 15 to hike over the weekend, but didn't return home on Sept. 17 as expected. Friends and rescue workers searched for several days until the bodies were found Saturday in a gully between Colchuck Peak and Dragontail Peak, at an elevation of 7,600 feet. Otto Vaclavek worked at Mountain Gear, a Spokane-area outdoor sports store. Sharon Marion, wife of Otto and mother of Max, said her husband had plenty of experience climbing in the Cascades. She said he came to the United States from Czechoslovakia in the 1980s and was granted political asylum. They met in 1988, she said, while she was making her first climb. They had two children, Max, and Olivia, 14. Sheriff Mike Harum said the Vaclaveks were climbing without anchoring themselves to the ice. "In most cases, more than not, they (climbers) utilize those safety measures, with anchors and ropes to traverse the glacier as well as climb the face of the mountain," Harum said. The pair did have ice axes and climbing cleats, Harum said. The autopsy revealed they died at least 48 hours before they were found, he said. They were last seen by a hiker on the trail to Colchuck Lake on Sept. 15. Authorities suspect they may have fallen that same day, Harum said.

Otto and Max's memorial service will be Saturday, Oct. 6, 2:00 pm at the Women's Club in Spokane at 9th & Walnut. Here's a link to the announcement , which includes a couple choice photos each of Max and Otto. I hope to add more details about the service as the time approaches and when I know more. Climbers, friends or neighbors, anyone who was touched by the lives of Otto and Max, are welcome. The media will not be there. If you'd like to give some help for the service, you're welcome to contact me personally. I ask each of you to please consider giving to the fund established for the Vaclavek family. Checks can be made out to the "Vaclavek Family Fund" and taken to any Spokane Teachers Credit Union (STCU) branch or mailed to: Vaclavek Family fund c/o STCU University District Branch 528 E. Spokane Falls Blvd. Spokane, WA 99202-5050 Thank you all, Steve Reynolds

indeed Normal reporting errors. Otto and Max were certainly climbers, not hikers. They were found at the base of Colchuck Glacier around 2 pm yesterday afternoon, just a few hundred feet above their packs which were cached just below the glacier. Not a big issue, but while Otto and Max were due back Monday or Tuesday, the first calls to report them missing actually went out Tuesday evening. From what I understand from how they were found from the radio comm's, and as fellow searcher Gary Yngve pointed out to me, Otto and Max likely died instantly from a fall. I don't know all details, so don't want to speculate. We'll know more when the incident report is made. Thanks to all the searchers and the great show of support. Climbers and trained SAR came from all over the state, and north Idaho. Thanks to the Chelan County Sheriff's office, to the bloodhound team who tracked Otto's and Max's scent from the Colchuck Lake trailhead until the dog could go no further through the big blocks and talus above the head of Colchuck Lake, and thanks to Freeman and other SAR folks who continued the search to find Max and Otto and bring their bodies back. Special thanks go out to Mountain Gear owners Paul and Karn for all they did to help mobilize, organize, and support the search effort and the Vaclavek family.

Thanks Sobo. Yup, they are the same. I got home from out-of-town work late last night and discovered Spokane SAR had been paged for the same also. I've not been able to leave until now. Thanks, we'll need the luck.

I've been asked by close friends of the missing climbers to post this info to any and all who can help. Competent folks are needed to search. I only know of some details I've been told by friends: Spokane climber Otto Vaclavek and his son Max have been overdue since Monday, 9-17-07. They were in the Enchantments, and were planning ascents of Sherpa and Argonaut. If my memory is correct, Otto's son is 12-13 years old. SAR Incident Command, managed by the Chelan County Sheriff's Office, is at the fish hatchery on Icicle Road, near the Helipad. If you don't know where the fish hatchery is, from Leavenworth you can follow the signs for the Salmon Festival. You can camp at the fish hatchery. Crews are already looking, but more help is definitely needed. Time is an issue, of course. You MUST check in with the Sherrif's Dept--there will be a briefing Saturday 6:30am with crews being sent out after that. Otto's and Max's family and friends are very appreciative and grateful to those who already searching, and those of you planning to. Thank you, Steve Reynolds

One cc.com discussion on the 60CSX here.

Started a new thread just for Laird's new guidebook here, so this thread can stay on the topic of Myrtle's Turtle.

Actually, the "Climber's Guide to North Idaho and the Cabinet Wilderness." Discussion already started here on this thread, but this new guidebook deserves its own thread. Props to author Thaddeus Laird for the great effort I'm sure it entailed. I'm interested to hear feedback/comments, as this is really only the second guide to cover North Idaho including Chimney Rock and Selkirk range, replacing Randall Green's 1987 original and long out-of-print "Idaho Rock: A Climbing Guide to the Selkirk Crest and Sandpoint Areas." Available online direct from publisher Keokee Press of Sandpoint. Also, according to others in the above-mentioned thread, it's in Spokane at Northwest Map and Travel Books (owned by parents of a couple well-known Spokane climbers) and Auntie's Bookstore. I pre-ordered my copy, and it was waiting when I arrived home this weekend. If your local NW area climbing shop doesn't have it already, it should soon. Seems fairly comprehensive, and covers the following: Crags: Post Falls/Q'emiln Park Laclede Rocks The Selkirk Crest: Gunsight Peak Chimney Rock Silver Dollar Peak The High Traverse Harrison Peak Mrytle's Turtle The Lion's Head The Cabinets: Ojibway Peak Elephant Peak St. Paul Peak Snowshoe Peak Also: Granite Point, Lake Pend Orielle Schweitzer Rocks Kalispell Creek Granite Pass

"Glissading" conditions constantly vary and will depend on weather/temps, snow conditions, time of day, etc. If you don't want to wear holes in your expensive Gore-Tex, best to glissade down on your boots (if yer skilled enuf) or better yet a board or two, and for God's sakes, take off your crampons!

The dome is called Myrtle's Turtle. I (McCallboater writing from Pindude's house) was up on top this morning. Fun. Mostly 4th class on the left hand side. I scrambled up from Two Mouth Lake in about an hour. Go straight E from the lake up the 3rd class slabs and short stretches of slide alder. Pics to come later.

Nice one, Dechristo. They certainly do. Flexon frames are one brand that are titanium-based. Titanium alloys are stronger and have better "memory" so your frames are less likely to break or bend. Costco sells titanium-alloy wire-frames for the lowest prices I've found, including among the big boxes (LensCrafters, etc) and independent opticians. Costco also has a one-year guarantee/warranty on their frames and on lens scratches. You can pick out frames in their display, or if those don't cut your mustard you can try and get a helpful customer service-oriented optician to look through their books with you to make a special order. Matt's "progressive" lenses are merely bi- or tri-focals without the lines in the lenses. There's a gradual change or progression in focal length as you vertically go up or down the lens. Many of us folks approaching or beyond 40 lose the flexibility of our eyes to easily focus on characters on printed page or screen, thus the need for "reading glasses," or if we're already near-sighted (meaning can't see far) then the dreaded bifocals. I have progressive lenses as well, and have the same issues sighting in on my feet that Matt mentioned. Basically, for cragging and regular rock climbing, I like my much-abused titanium-framed glasses, and for the alpine where bad weather, snow or ice are involved, I generally wear contacts in combo with different sunglasses or goggles. Let us know what you find or choose. Cheers, Steve

Sorry to hear, Alpinfox. My old neighborhood, too. Well, 30 years ago anyway. I've had my crag pack/main rack ripped off twice here in the Spokane area, both the only claims I've made through my homeowner's policy. Both times reported to cops, both times I scanned pawn shops and want ads for months but no luck finding any of it. First in 1992, about $3K from my truck in Mtn Gear's parking lot, by some gang-bang-wannabe's who had no clue about climbing. Exactly 3 weeks before a big trip to the Valley. Insurance cut a check for the whole thing, no questions asked, and I had almost everything replaced before the big trip. Second time about 3 years ago right at Minnehaha with about 50 folks around, more than $4K worth including wedding ring. A couple teenage punks who had been hanging around watching for the previous hour. This time the same insurance company, Unigard, made me purchase first then reimbursed after I produced receipts. I was treated like dishonest scum, given a big run-around, and lied to. After given advice by the company about my claim and told it wouldn't raise my rates or policy wouldn't be changed, the fuckers then immediately raised my rates significantly and wanted me to sign a new policy. I've since discovered it helps to have friends inside the insurance industry who can give realistic, good advice rather than be lied to and given the corporate hot poker up the ass. Hope you catch the bastards and your insurance company treats you right. Edited to add: For my most recent claim for any item that was older than new, the insurance company wanted to pro-rate and only partially reimburse. They did finally fully reimburse, but only after much back-and-forth. Avoid the BS and just say everthing was fairly new.

Classic link-up. Thanks for the little TR, Joe. Enough snow on the north side--for laps between the Ruthann crest down to the drainage--to make it worth bringing the skis?

Yes, this could be in general forum. Lots of good links presented, but I like to keep it simple. For weather forecasts, the NWS is best, and you can pinpoint a Fx from your regional center: NWS Seattle NWS Portland NWS Spokane Canada's NWS equivalent: Environment Canada Imagery loops are obviously important because the current pattern of movement can be predicted for the short-term future, complementing any forecast. Before heading out, I almost always look at two different imagery sites, one for the big picture and another that is more specific to the NW. For big picture imagery, my fav is the GOES-West satellite Pacific Ocean imagery with an infrared moisture overlay originally developed at Purdue but sold to and now provided by Unisys: Unisys GOES-West sat 12-hr enhanced infrared imagery For the local precip pattern, this site is very accurate (more so than the higher-altitude Unisys imagery): Intellicast 2-hour infrared radar loop Quite often for me weather goes in hand with snow and avalanche conditions, so I check the avy forecasts in season. Other good sites for specific info and Fx models include the UW Atmospheric Sciences Dept and the Aviation Wx Center, all linked from Lowell Skoog's links list. Many useful weather links here at Turns-all-year.com

I can imagine what else you "drink"...

Hmm, one of my fav WSU prof's in the 70s, and an old cowboy then, taught me how to make a martini I thought was real old school: 1 part gin to 1 part dry vermouth in a shaker. In the last couple decades, I have made them--sometimes by request--2 or 3 parts gin to 1 part vermouth, which I thought was more traditional. You say the trend is to have no or little vermouth? James Bond can't be happy.

letsroll: Too bad, but good to know. jport: Thanks for posting the website. Glad to see you're going strong.

If you don't give the gear to the Bushwackers, the Explorer Post in PDX is affiliated with the Mazamas.

Nice pics, spotly. Some of these avatar pics are hard to make out, but now I know what yours is. Yeah, I think it's the same thing. (the one in my avatar!), Here's some pics: Highway Rock Highway Rock and Roadside Rock are the same. "Highway Rock" is the original name used by locals. It's noted correctly in the newer La Belle guide, and was mistakenly named "Roadside Rock" in Bland's older guide. Mistake was repeated by Whitelaw in "Weekend Rock," which was written and printed prior to the 2006 La Belle guide. La Belle's "Rock Climbs of Central Washington" has the most and newest routes for Banks Lake and nearby areas. "Weekend Rock" is a good complement as Whitelaw lists several boat-in only areas near Highway Rock that aren't included in La Belle. If you'll be climbing on popular Highway Rock, use La Belle's guide for sure. Many routes are bolt only, but La Belle lists which routes require trad gear. He also notes approaches and rap-ins, number/length of ropes needed, number of bolts and trad gear size for specific climbs. Good intros and warmups for Highway are on the south side starting with Bono and The Edge, Washington Pass (as mentioned by spotly), and Calanques. My favorite climbs on Highway Rock are on the west, water side and include Aqualine, Creamsicle Buttress, Danton, Tom Paine, Robespierre, Pas de Deux, White Lung Disease, Croissant, and Rashomon as a summit top-out. Further to the north on the west side, out of the sun the longest (until about 2 pm these days) and best reached by rapping in after walking around from the north are Cinderelle, Pas de Cheval, Papillon, Ou est Valdes, and Steve's Classic Dihedral. In Northrup Canyon, good moderates include the Southwest Arete of Gibraltar and several routes on Picnic Table Rock such as Earnest Stemmingway and Jugoslavia. Likely the best route on Picnic Table is Dr. Ceuse, which some say is the best single pitch in the Banks area. All climbs I've mentioned are moderates, not harder than mid-10. Boat not needed for Highway Rock and Northrup Canyon climbs. La Belle's Penninsula area used to be accessible by vehicle via Barker Canyon from the west side of the lake but is now closed to vehicles near the Barker Canyon boat ramp (as of this past winter), necessitating a several-mile hike. Best access for the Penninsula is now by boat from the east side, from the boat launch across from and west of the Northrup Canyon road. The Penninsula has the longest climbs on Banks, 3-5 pitches from just above waterline to the top of Orange Wall, but can get hot. When accessing Highway Rock by crossing through the marshy area between the gravelled parking area and the rock, look out for poison ivy including right on the beaten trail. It's a real ivy jungle there, but on Saturday I emptied two spray cans of herbicide on the stuff just within reaching distance of the trail. Poison Ivy abounds also on small ledges on the west side, so look out when throwing your ropes. Other hazards include rattlers and loose rock. Most routes are still fairly new and/or don't receive much traffic, and the granitic gneiss is crumbly enough to warrant constant attention. Have fun out there.

Elise, Thanks for letting us know how they're "legally" transferrable, and for trying to not let them go to waste under the currently untenable permit system. cc.com should be one of the best ways to sell/trade your St. H permits, and I hope you're successful. The skiing/boarding up there should still be excellent. Please let us know if you're able to sell them.

Brian lived and worked here in Spokane only a few years ago. Strong in spirit and body, honorable, and well-liked by virtually everyone around him, Brian was truly a good, nice person. He was one of my favorites when he worked at Mountain Gear's retail store where I'd go out of my way to seek him out for info and advice. Among our discussions was Denali's West Rib: climbing the route was a dream of his for many years. I didn't know Mizuki, but am confident any partner of Brian's--especially for this route--would be similar in character. It's this aspect of climbing I hate. What a tragic loss. My condolences to the families and many friends of both.

If that's such an issue, you can easily get a tracking number and track it yourself. Your reply doesn't change my opinion at all; it only reinforces it. I feel for you, but you have to take some responsibility on your own. I too once had to wait on a haul bag from Russ before a Yose trip, and had it delivered by Russ after a first projected date of when I would receive it, but got it in time--especially once I was clear with him when I needed it and what I needed it for. Perhaps you need to communicate with him more/better. Now that you've brought this shit up to the world, and to be fair, you at a minimum owe it now to let Russ know you posted your shit on this board, and you need to let us know when you receive your order, if not to let us know what further comm's you have with Russ. You made the bed with your original post, you now have to lay in it. Shit happens. Do your best in a positive way to reconcile problems, rather than resort to whining on the net about your late delivery. Hope you get your stuff soon, and you have a great Yose trip. responsibility?? communicate?? geez..i'm not asking anyone on a date.. i paid money for a product. i've been in conctact with russ on e-mail. why do i owe it to anyone to tell them about this post. do all the other rants about people and businesses need to be reported to the subjects? that's bogus. word of mouth advertising can be ones best or worst enemy. that's why businesses need to be on top of it. i deleted the original post because russ sent me a private message right away and i did feel bad about going here before going to him. so i replaced the rant with just some simple statements of what is going on. since then, russ has posted part of an e-mail i sent directly to him. we all gotta take the good with the bad with this internet stuff.. Damn right you should've taken resposibility, and you obviously not only failed to communicate well with Russ and this forum, you lied. Reread the whole thread if you don't know how apparent this is. I see my initial presumptions about your first post were true. Good job, you've defined yourself as one lacking credibility. I'm not going to debate you any further, I'm going to bed. Others can take it up tomorrow.

If that's such an issue, you can easily get a tracking number and track it yourself. Your reply doesn't change my opinion at all; it only reinforces it. I feel for you, but you have to take some responsibility on your own. I too once had to wait on a haul bag from Russ before a Yose trip, and had it delivered by Russ after a first projected date of when I would receive it, but got it in time--especially once I was clear with him when I needed it and what I needed it for. Perhaps you need to communicate with him more/better. Now that you've brought this shit up to the world, and to be fair, you at a minimum owe it now to let Russ know you posted your shit on this board, and you need to let us know when you receive your order, if not to let us know what further comm's you have with Russ. You made the bed with your original post, you now have to lay in it. Shit happens. Do your best in a positive way to reconcile problems, rather than resort to whining on the net about your late delivery. Hope you get your stuff soon, and you have a great Yose trip. -------- Edited to add: In the time I made my point above, I see underworld made some major edits to at least 2 of his posts here, and Russ replied. OK, at least glad it worked out. Russ: underworld: I was initially unsure about giving you a thumbs down, especially with your edited contrition. Too bad I didn't quote your original message so others can see what you originally wrote. Still, the original grievous act outweighs all:

What town in Wisconsin are you moving to? My family is from and I was born in the cheese state, but I became a climber after moving away. Devil's Lake near Baraboo is the main show, although there's a few other places to boulder and climb that I've heard about. Carolyn from this board is from Minnesota and will know better about places and any local climbing discussion boards for the area.

It's well known by most in this activity that Russ is a climber and prompt delivery is not expected when ordering Fish Products. However, it's bomber gear and well worth it. In the past when I've needed gear for a trip on a specific date, I've simply and plainly told Russ and received the order in time for the dance, no problem. Are you just wanting it, or do you have a trip planned? Have you communicated clearly with Russ? I'm all for supporting the little guy and am willing to cut some slack, especially for those such as Russ who are innovative and creative, are into it for the love of the activity and are not getting rich from it. What really stinks are folks like you who complain to the world on the net about something fairly minor, and then claim "fishproducts stink!!!" WTF.