pindude

Eric, even though I've been a fairly dedicated tele skier for 20+ years now, I wouldn't start my 8- and 9-year-olds that way. And I'd definitely start em on skis rather than a board, as skiing will give them more skills and they can much more easily transfer the ski skills to a board rather than the other way around. In our Inland NW region, you've got 2 solid options: Alpine or Cross-country. As to which one of the two, that's your choice buddy, but of course it depends greatly on what your kids may like. One option, as MattP said, is to start 'em on alpine. Kiddie gear is easier to get, and there are more kid learning programs. Each of the resorts have good ones, and you know I'm partial to 49DN for good reason. They've got one of the best learning hills, excellent instructors, and deals. You *can* teach them yourself (one option), but the best way is to get 'em in formal lessons with a professional. A typical program will have kids in classes in the morning, then they're free in the afternoon when they can ski with you or ski on their own. As young kids growing up in Seattle, my folks enrolled my bro, sis and myself in the Lake City Elks' ski program. They also made the commitment to buy us our own gear. Folks would drop us off at the bus in the early a.m., we'd have morning lessons at Stevens Pass, and I'd be skiing with neighborhood buds and new friends through the afternoon until the lifts closed. I was glad not to be taught by my folks, but also appreciated being taken back up to the hill by them on occasional Sundays. It was this alpine mountain foundation that got me on my own eventually into the mountains and backcountry, and skiing on groomed cross-country trails. The second solid option, especially in our area, is cross-country. We've got exceptional groomed trails at Mt. Spokane, and junior learning and racing programs to match through Selkirk Nordic/SNSEF. Not sure what the bottom-age-limit for juniors is in the Spo Mounties' free class which starts with the indoor session this Wed (the single outdoor class is Saturday), but you can ask. Selkirk Nordic's junior cross-country classes start after Jan 1, so you have some time there. Not sure when downhill resort junior alpine seasonal programs (they'll have the best instructional deals) begin, but we're just starting to get good coverage and it should be improved for this coming weekend. With your Norwegian heritage and athletic genes, I'm sure your kids will pick up skiing well. They may eventually telemark or board, who knows, but with a start on alpine and/or cross-country skiing they'll have a base of understanding and skills they'll continue to use as adults in the mountains and in winter whatever it is they'll do. Personally, I can say the best thing my folks ever gave to me as a child was the gift of skiing. Good luck bro.

Right on, hafilax. For those who follow the snow around and travel from home, one can get to any available North American regional advisory/forecast/bulletin/report from these 2 links: USA: http://www.avalanche.org/ Canada: http://www.avalanche.ca/default.aspx?DN=5,4,558,3,Documents

According to the Snoq Pass wiki page no deaths, but a 14-year-old skier suffered "permanent damage": "In 1959 a new ski area was developed on the north side of Hyak Mtn by 3 businessmen who formed the Hyak Ski Corporation. The company made some bad financial moves and in 1972 a ski lift accident that left a 14 year old skier with permanent damage, and subsequent lawsuit sent the area into bankruptcy in 1977. The area was purchased in 1980 by Pac West until they too filed bankruptcy in 1988. In 1992 the area was purchased by Ski Lifts, Inc who now owned all 4 local Snoqualmie Pass ski areas. In 1998 Booth Creek purchased the areas from Ski Lifts, Inc. and in 2007 sold all areas to CNL. Booth Creek signed a management agreement with CNL then in September 19, 2007 announced the management of the Snoqualmie Pass ski areas was sold to Boyne USA." -------------- Here's a copy of an old newspaper clipping posted at hyak.net describing the rollback incident. Article dated 12-30-71: http://hyak.net/articles/12_71.html

Posting this in spray for obvious reasons, but this IS for real. Good luck! From the Los Angeles Craigslist: Camping Instructor wanted for TV Show -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reply to: casting@playboy.com Date: 2007-11-12, 5:16PM PST Playboy TV is looking for a Male, skilled to professional Camper that can teach 4 Playboy Models the fundamentals of camping. Pitching tents, collecting firewood, tips for cooking in the wilderness etc., for our HIT show “Hot Babes Doing Stuff Naked”. NO NUDITY required for the male instructor, however, must be comfortable around nude models. For immediate consideration, please send picture, contact info and bio of experience and skills to Casting Director, Madison Smith to casting@playboy.com Must be available for a “meet and greet”. Shoot Date: November 30, 2007 Rate: $250.00 ½ day (4-6 hours) NON-UNION Location: Los Angeles Compensation: $250.00 1/2day Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster. Please, no phone calls about this job! Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. PostingID: 477004137

Hmm, Henry played B-ham tonight, will be in Spokane tomorrow/Sat nite, and is in Seattle on Halloween/Wed eve. Portland and Vancouver BC too: Henry's Tour Schedule

I had the same experience. Need to tighten STS? Adjust the tail hook position. My clipfix were no more durable than my STS and they weigh slightly more. Yes, I can see all kinds of issues if you're using one pair of skins for two or more pairs of skis. I use one set skins per one set skis, and find that shrinkage/expansion in re. to temperature is negligible--I don't have to readjust once the length is dialed in. I've had experiences with several touring friends with their STS tailfix constantly coming off or worse, although most often a tailfix coming off is user error by one stepping on their own ski tails. I typically use the included skin savers several times until the glue becomes a little less sticky, then I start folding the skins on themselves. Don't quit using the skin savers too quickly: I had a friend with new skins who immediately tossed the skin savers and folded the skins on themselves. When he unfolded them on his first tour, the new, ultra-sticky glue pulled off completely in parts from one skin to the other.

Go with the STS unless you use one pair of skis in reasonably similar conditions all year. Clipfix require too much fiddling with the skin length to stay fixed if skins stretch/etc. Having used both ClipFix and the STS/G3 style attachment, I'd also recommend the latter for the same reason. When everything is adjusted perfectly, ClipFix is bomber, but most of the time I found it to be a PITA. I haven't had any problems with the ClipFix, and certainly don't have to fiddle with it ("hardest" thing may be to adjust it to the right length, but that's easy), so wonder why you consider it a PITA. Regardless, you have a great set-up there Climbnsparky. Have a great season.

No, dude. Again, my strong opinion the Ascension ClipFix (please re-read my first post), not STS. Couloir mentioned problems with STS, and as well I've seen on fellow tourers over the years the STS-type tip/tail fix come off much more readily than the ClipFix. Glue will need to be re-applied (after stripping the old glue) depending on use and care. Usually not more than 1x every 1-2 years. One of the characteristics that makes Ascension the best skin is their Gold Label glue: it's the only one that should be bought to replace your old glue.

Dunno, but it could be you have to re-trim your skins. I certainly haven't perfectly cut my skins each time. Also, I've had skins change in length depending on changes in temperature/sunlight (yes, I'm still talking Ascension skins ) such that I might have to reposition the length of the skin at the tip-fix, but don't know that how would change the width much. I can see an issue with shrinkage/lengthening of skins perhaps with skis that are way shaped or asymmetrical. Um, I'd better stop typing and go to bed before I really regret it. Good luck there Couloir.

Completely wrong In 1988, a client being guided by Jim Bridwell, in the Tetons, took his harness off to take a dump. When he put the harness back on, he threaded the buckle improperly. He never told Bridwell that he had doffed his harness. The harness failed during a lower, or a rapell, and he died. Everyone got sued, Chouinard Equipment, the guide service, and Jim Bridwell. Chouinard Equipment had the deepest pockets. In order to protect Patagonia Inc., Chouinard Equipment declared bankruptcy, and was sold. I am not sure if it was sold prior to bankruptcy. To imply that the sale of Chouinard Equipment was driven by profits is misleading, there was much much more to the story than that. Makes you wonder what else Alaska Bum doesn't know Chouinard Equipment was sold after the Chapter 11 filing. YC had several lawsuits against CE at the same time, including the one you mentioned. There was a great Outside mag article by Krakauer about the change shortly after it happened. Searched for it but couldn't find it. I remember the lawyer-climbing client died not on rappel, but from slipping out of his harness or off the rope while being belayed from the guide above, who was at the top of the first pitch on a short multi-pitch climb. At any rate, I think the accident was also written up in ANAM. And right, according to the Outside article, legal advice given to YC was he needed to lose Chouinard Equipment to protect his real cash cow: Patagonia. It wasn't really much of a choice to sell the company, but today's Black Diamond came out the best for it. While the company's roots and its place in climbing history are incredibly significant, as an employee-driven company and with Metcalf at the helm, BD has continued to provide high-quality, innovative products I'm not sure they would have developed otherwise. YC himself, excerpted from his book "Let My People Surf," at Outside Online: ------------ "In the late eighties, Chouinard Equipment became the target of several lawsuits. None involved faulty equipment or climbers. We were sued by a window washer, a plumber, a stagehand, and someone who broke his ankle in a tug-of-war contest using our climbing rope. The basis of each suit was improper warning--that we had failed to properly warn these customers about the dangers inherent in using our equipment for uses we could not predict. Then came a more serious suit, from the family of a lawyer who was killed when he incorrectly tied into one of our harnesses in a beginner climbing class. "The litigators thought that Chouinard Equipment and Patagonia were the same company and that, since Patagonia was doing so well, they could milk the corporation. Our insurance company refused to fight any of the suits, because of the costs involved, and settled out of court. Our premiums went up 2,000 percent in one year. Eventually, Chouinard Equipment filed for Chapter 11, a move that gave the employees time to gather capital for a buyout. They successfully purchased the assets, moved the company to Salt Lake City, and built their own company, Black Diamond Equipment Ltd., which to this day continues to make the world's best climbing and backcountry-ski gear." ----------- On topic, I'm not sure yet what to make of the made-in-China thing, but know that my BD cams are the ones (among Friends, Metolius, Alien cams I use) I'd rather be falling on.

I've used Ascension skins since before they were bought up by BD, and if I needed a new pair, wouldn't hesitate to purchase them again. Now on my 4th Ascension set, put on a pair of Verdicts beginning last season. Before Ascension, I used several including some actual mohair (can't remember manuf'er), Pomocas, and Voile. Regarding skins, don't compromise: you'll get more mileage for your buck and have less worries and frustrations if you go with the best. The Ascension ClipFix is the shit; I wouldn't even consider the GlideLite or a different tip/tail attachment. Couloir, I'm not sure what problems you could be having with your own "custom cut." I've custom cut/trimmed each of my pair of Ascensions, and have had -zero- problems with fit. Wall-to-wall, with just your metal edges exposed, is definitely the way to go for best performance. To trim your skins, it should go without saying you want to be very careful, yet deliberate. Start with your skis in your workbench vises and the new, untrimmed skins attached to the bases. I normally use a utility knife with a brand-new, sharp blade, cutting along the outside of the metal edge of the ski I'm fitting the skin to. After cutting one side, I reposition the skin to cut the opposite edge in the same way. BD skins also come with trimming instructions. If you're a Sparky, then you're good with tools and you'll have no problem. An even better source of backcountry info are the good folks at turns-all-year.com. Hmm, Verdicts, Free Rides, and forecasts for a good winter. You'll be having a great time this ski season, I'm sure.

Marty, obviously the only person getting wound up is you, but I know you love it. I nominate you for President Of All Things Climbing in the Inland NW: let me know when/where your next meeting is, so I know to avoid it. And I look forward to your boobs coming to a rock at Minnehaha soon. FYI Marty, no meetings were needed to start the big clean-up five years ago. We planned while we climbed out there, made a few phone calls, and just did it. To promote awareness, ownership, and to give credit to donors, it was decided by several to bring the community and media on board to have an official "clean-up day." If there's a better way to clean up the graffiti than sandblasting, I'm open to it. And whether or not you want to spray, blast, blow, or suck, cleaned up it will be. Na zdravi, Steve

The rooster crows. Got anything positive to contribute, Marty? Will you help with a cleanup? Do you really know anything about sandblasting? Love ya, Steve

Things were way, way worse before 5 years ago. The big effort where virtually *everything* was cleaned was in 2002, and things stayed clean for quite a while after that. However, the presence of grafitti indeed attracts more. And it turns some climbers off...I agree with your general assessment but think there are less climbers in general at Minne because it's considered by many to be more of a "trad" area, and there are proportionately more gym climbers who'd rather climb at sport-oriented areas like Post Falls or Deep Creek if they're not indoors. OF COURSE Minne is worth cleaning up, are you kidding? Scrubbing won't work, sandblasting is where it's at and I have some contacts to do it at minimal cost, outside of getting a core team of 10 or so folks together and spending a couple days doing hard work. Based on what we did in 2002, the amount of graffiti existing now can be completely erased in two full days' worth of work. Trick is getting donations of sand, the blasting equipment, and the labor. Spotly, I never got an email re. this. Obviously we need to talk--call me. And yes, it does take getting PO'd for many to finally take action and deal with it. Good on you for getting the ire up. --Steve

Thanks very much for contributing!

Dane, thanks for your message. jclark, yes, the did fall. Here's the 9-25-07 AP story appearing in the Seattle Times that is mostly accurate. Main corrections are that Otto's wife's name is Susan (not Sharon), and Otto and Max were not found "in a gully" per se, but at the base of Colchuck Glacier in the very large glacial cirque area between Dragontail and Colchuck Mountains. And "cleats" are actually crampons, of course. --------- Father died of hypothermia, son of head trauma By The Associated Press WENATCHEE — Autopsies have determined that a 12-year-old Spokane boy who was mountain climbing with his father in the Cascade Mountains died from a skull fracture sustained in a fall, and that his dad suffered head injuries but died of hypothermia. Photographs indicate that Otto Vaclavek, 53, of Spokane, may have fallen between two rocks, Chelan County Coroner Wayne Harris said. He speculated that Vaclavek, an experienced mountaineer, was unable to get out from between the rocks. Vaclavek's, 12-year-old son, Max, hit his head on a rock when he fell and suffered blunt force trauma to the head. "He was wearing a helmet, but the trauma was below the helmet line," Harris said, noting that the boy probably died instantly. The two were climbing a glacier in and likely slipped on the ice, dropping 100 to 150 feet over a cliff and onto rocks below, Harris said. The two were not roped together. The two set out on Sept. 15 to hike over the weekend, but didn't return home on Sept. 17 as expected. Friends and rescue workers searched for several days until the bodies were found Saturday in a gully between Colchuck Peak and Dragontail Peak, at an elevation of 7,600 feet. Otto Vaclavek worked at Mountain Gear, a Spokane-area outdoor sports store. Sharon Marion, wife of Otto and mother of Max, said her husband had plenty of experience climbing in the Cascades. She said he came to the United States from Czechoslovakia in the 1980s and was granted political asylum. They met in 1988, she said, while she was making her first climb. They had two children, Max, and Olivia, 14. Sheriff Mike Harum said the Vaclaveks were climbing without anchoring themselves to the ice. "In most cases, more than not, they (climbers) utilize those safety measures, with anchors and ropes to traverse the glacier as well as climb the face of the mountain," Harum said. The pair did have ice axes and climbing cleats, Harum said. The autopsy revealed they died at least 48 hours before they were found, he said. They were last seen by a hiker on the trail to Colchuck Lake on Sept. 15. Authorities suspect they may have fallen that same day, Harum said.

Otto and Max's memorial service will be Saturday, Oct. 6, 2:00 pm at the Women's Club in Spokane at 9th & Walnut. Here's a link to the announcement , which includes a couple choice photos each of Max and Otto. I hope to add more details about the service as the time approaches and when I know more. Climbers, friends or neighbors, anyone who was touched by the lives of Otto and Max, are welcome. The media will not be there. If you'd like to give some help for the service, you're welcome to contact me personally. I ask each of you to please consider giving to the fund established for the Vaclavek family. Checks can be made out to the "Vaclavek Family Fund" and taken to any Spokane Teachers Credit Union (STCU) branch or mailed to: Vaclavek Family fund c/o STCU University District Branch 528 E. Spokane Falls Blvd. Spokane, WA 99202-5050 Thank you all, Steve Reynolds

indeed Normal reporting errors. Otto and Max were certainly climbers, not hikers. They were found at the base of Colchuck Glacier around 2 pm yesterday afternoon, just a few hundred feet above their packs which were cached just below the glacier. Not a big issue, but while Otto and Max were due back Monday or Tuesday, the first calls to report them missing actually went out Tuesday evening. From what I understand from how they were found from the radio comm's, and as fellow searcher Gary Yngve pointed out to me, Otto and Max likely died instantly from a fall. I don't know all details, so don't want to speculate. We'll know more when the incident report is made. Thanks to all the searchers and the great show of support. Climbers and trained SAR came from all over the state, and north Idaho. Thanks to the Chelan County Sheriff's office, to the bloodhound team who tracked Otto's and Max's scent from the Colchuck Lake trailhead until the dog could go no further through the big blocks and talus above the head of Colchuck Lake, and thanks to Freeman and other SAR folks who continued the search to find Max and Otto and bring their bodies back. Special thanks go out to Mountain Gear owners Paul and Karn for all they did to help mobilize, organize, and support the search effort and the Vaclavek family.

Thanks Sobo. Yup, they are the same. I got home from out-of-town work late last night and discovered Spokane SAR had been paged for the same also. I've not been able to leave until now. Thanks, we'll need the luck.

I've been asked by close friends of the missing climbers to post this info to any and all who can help. Competent folks are needed to search. I only know of some details I've been told by friends: Spokane climber Otto Vaclavek and his son Max have been overdue since Monday, 9-17-07. They were in the Enchantments, and were planning ascents of Sherpa and Argonaut. If my memory is correct, Otto's son is 12-13 years old. SAR Incident Command, managed by the Chelan County Sheriff's Office, is at the fish hatchery on Icicle Road, near the Helipad. If you don't know where the fish hatchery is, from Leavenworth you can follow the signs for the Salmon Festival. You can camp at the fish hatchery. Crews are already looking, but more help is definitely needed. Time is an issue, of course. You MUST check in with the Sherrif's Dept--there will be a briefing Saturday 6:30am with crews being sent out after that. Otto's and Max's family and friends are very appreciative and grateful to those who already searching, and those of you planning to. Thank you, Steve Reynolds

One cc.com discussion on the 60CSX here.

Started a new thread just for Laird's new guidebook here, so this thread can stay on the topic of Myrtle's Turtle.

Actually, the "Climber's Guide to North Idaho and the Cabinet Wilderness." Discussion already started here on this thread, but this new guidebook deserves its own thread. Props to author Thaddeus Laird for the great effort I'm sure it entailed. I'm interested to hear feedback/comments, as this is really only the second guide to cover North Idaho including Chimney Rock and Selkirk range, replacing Randall Green's 1987 original and long out-of-print "Idaho Rock: A Climbing Guide to the Selkirk Crest and Sandpoint Areas." Available online direct from publisher Keokee Press of Sandpoint. Also, according to others in the above-mentioned thread, it's in Spokane at Northwest Map and Travel Books (owned by parents of a couple well-known Spokane climbers) and Auntie's Bookstore. I pre-ordered my copy, and it was waiting when I arrived home this weekend. If your local NW area climbing shop doesn't have it already, it should soon. Seems fairly comprehensive, and covers the following: Crags: Post Falls/Q'emiln Park Laclede Rocks The Selkirk Crest: Gunsight Peak Chimney Rock Silver Dollar Peak The High Traverse Harrison Peak Mrytle's Turtle The Lion's Head The Cabinets: Ojibway Peak Elephant Peak St. Paul Peak Snowshoe Peak Also: Granite Point, Lake Pend Orielle Schweitzer Rocks Kalispell Creek Granite Pass

"Glissading" conditions constantly vary and will depend on weather/temps, snow conditions, time of day, etc. If you don't want to wear holes in your expensive Gore-Tex, best to glissade down on your boots (if yer skilled enuf) or better yet a board or two, and for God's sakes, take off your crampons!

The dome is called Myrtle's Turtle. I (McCallboater writing from Pindude's house) was up on top this morning. Fun. Mostly 4th class on the left hand side. I scrambled up from Two Mouth Lake in about an hour. Go straight E from the lake up the 3rd class slabs and short stretches of slide alder. Pics to come later.