pindude

The fun I have missed by being away from this board... I agree with just about everything you have to say, pu. I like CDA a lot too, in many ways better than Spokane. If you get on snow on a board or boards, I'd be glad to take you into the winter BC around here, and I'm not talking Tubbs Hill or Mt. Spokane. Many of the winter BC places I know are closer to CDA than Spokane. Conversely, maybe you could show me where those condoms and needles are?--apparently, I've been missing where the parties are out there all these years, nothing new. Don't mean to chestbeat, but there is perhaps one person who has picked up more trash at Minne than I have--that's Bob Loomis. In all the pounds of trash I've picked up out there in 18+ years, I've seen less than that # of needles and condoms you mention, but of course it's gonna be out there, to some degree. We've done a lot to clean up that place, including having private security patrol at night (thanks County Parks) and sheriffs patrol in the day...but they do stick close to the road and stay in the parking areas. Let me know, and I'll bring a Sharps container. AaronB, I'm glad you're glad. But don't make up sh*t about me like I am the "super safety expert." If you knew me, you'd know I'm not, but on the other hand I'm not passive if I see someone at the crags doing something that may kill them. Have fun in the Valley--hope you get good weather and get lots of vertical in. OK, Gotta get back to my bible and prepare for my next work prayer meeting.

Greg, Just got on this board after avoiding it for many days. If you get a chance to read this, I'll be out at Minne on Saturday, with a Spo Mounties class, at least for the morning. We generally don't take up all the good climbs, so there should be lots of choice climbs open....but in particular I'd be glad to give you a quick tour and point you toward some appropriate routes. Ask anyone for Steve and someone should point you toward me. Re. China Bend, it's too hard for me in my fat middle age--hopefully you got some beta from Marty Bland, who probably knows it best. If not, Mountain Goat Outfitters (NW corner of Sprague & Division) or Mtn Gear (2002 N. Division) climbing folks will have current beta.

OMG This is some of the best stuff on the net. I was wondering when we'd be able to read her next journal entry. Thanks for staying on top of her, I mean things, Dru!

I sure missed this thread earlier. A couple or so misperceptions need to be corrected, so here goes. And since it’s in Spray and is living up to that name... Short answer Minx: climbing is generally good, cost of living is generally low. The negative thing here about Spokane is overblown in this thread. There will always be people dissing on an area for different reasons. Bottom line is that you make the most of an area you live in. It is true Spokanites have had an inferiority complex compared to the west side, but that’s mostly in the past—the general perception I see here is that people are thankful for what we’ve got, including when comparing life to west of the Cascades. Not saying it’s better over here as there’s a lot I like about the Sound area and that I miss, including quick access to the Cascades and “more culture,” although the amount of culture here is at least what you’d expect for the size of this area--Spokane is ranked by the US Census at about #100 as a MSA. There is a lot to be said for the Sound’s quick access to the incredible Cascades. For us to get into comparable mountains we have to drive a little further, but in general comparison to the Sound area, there is a wider variety of climbing opportunities based out of Spokane. And there is much more climbing in town compared to west-side towns. I have several friends who moved here precisely because of the climbing, skiing, whitewater boating, and other recreation this area has to offer, not only for what is available to do in the evenings or on single days, but also for the incredible variety that is accessible on weekend trips. PU, you say the “city is lacking in many ways.” Care to elaborate? Is that why I see you—a CDA’ite—in Spokane city so often? The Spokane area really encompasses a metro area that includes the newly incorporated city of Spokane Valley, and stretches to the east across the Idaho border to Post Falls and Coeur d’Alene, although the US Census does not figure the Spokane MSA to include these Idaho communities—it’s a political thing. As far as jobs go, the economy is very two-tiered. The one main area where Spokane is really lacking (right, PU) is that of good jobs—Spokane has been hit hard and lost a lot of better paying jobs since ~2000 that have not been made up for. Generally the best positions here are in the health industry. In terms of pay, Spokane’s median pay is around $27K, which ranks it pretty low, especially in terms of its size, but the cost of living is fairly commensurate. Here's a breakdown of jobs and pay scales. AaronB, at the risk of pissing you off further: maybe you need a better paying job than that which you had at Silver Mtn, a better car (and those drive times you listed will improve, except for the Wasatch, which is more accurate), and you need to learn to love yourself first! Sabertooth is the most objective and pretty right on. The only thing I would correct is one item on his list is way wrong: local crags for trad climbing is definitely a plus . Sabertooth, I don’t know how you missed that one. As far as the skiing goes, I can see how AaronB’d be bummin’ if he had to make the drive on I-90, then have to take that long ride in that gondola, 5 days a week—especially if it was to a low-paying job. Silver Mtn is my least favorite of the 5 area resorts, but it’s still a fine mountain according to many. Inland NW skiing does not generally compare to Utah and the ‘Satch, but it can if you know where to go and when, including the backcountry. One of the best-kept secrets of the CDA-Spokane area is that we have excellent day-trip access to world-class BC skiing—Minx, I’d be glad to take let you know more about it. Lastly re. snow stuff, another one of the skiing secrets about the Spokane area is that if you’re into skinny skis on groomed trails, Mt. Spokane is difficult to beat (quick access, big network of groomed trails, long season). I’m not sure how old AaronB is, exactly where all he’s lived, skied and climbed, or what has him so upset. My experience? I’ve been skiing and have climbed in mountains for a happy 34 years, throughout the western US and Canada. I’ve traveled on ski and climb road trips throughout western NA, lived in 4 towns in the NW from Kalispell to Seattle (in addition to living as a kid in the northern midwest and east coast), and traveled in Europe and South America. Minx, here’s some more stuff here at CC.com: Spokane climbing Climbing near Spokane Climbing areas near Spokane on a hot day And ski info from ttips: Idaho at Easter skiing north Idaho Cheers, pindude

Interesting discussion since I was last on. MS Word with "Find/replace" does the trick too, CBS. Not translated, in my first statement, was why not use 5.5-mm perlon? (not Gemini, Titan, Spectra-type cords as mentioned in the second cryptic sentence.) I've been using regular 5.5-mm cord for crevasse rescue since the mid-80s--it grips well down to 8.5 mm, but I haven't used it on 8.1-mm or less rope yet. On another note, rescue folks I have spoken to, including the now-retired Arnor Larson of Rigging for Rescue, prefer prussiks over mechanical-type ascenders in a rescue situation. Especially with the weight of two or more people on a single rope, there is more concern about a mechanical ascender's teeth (this would include a Tibloc) tearing the sheath of the rope if somehow the rope were shock-loaded.

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Nothing positive to report yet, but I thought the #$%@heads who stole my pack might try to use 2 tickets in my wallet for last Saturday's "Radical Reels" show in Spokane. It was non-reserved seating, but I knew the ticket numbers. They didn't show, maybe because they were too lazy, or too smart to know that I had several climbing buddies including a city police detective waiting for them to pass the tickets. Thanks everyone who helped out. And at least the show was enjoyable. Others who were at the rocks that day confirmed there were a couple 18-y-o white boys, non-climbers, watching the action that Saturday afternoon. It's most likely them: they were noticed to be gone only immediately after my pack was ripped. Obviously they either took the gear to sell, or to use themselves. What I'd really like to get back is the wedding ring. I've personally contacted all 20+ pawn shops in the Spokane-Spokane Valley area in the past week, plus emailed my list of stolen gear to all the Play It Again Sports Shops in the four NW states. If they took the gear to use themselves, I'd appreciate people keeping their eyes open. They likely were local, but could have been from outside the area, as they didn't show up at the crag until Saturday afternoon. Shop owners and employees: If they are wanting to climb some vertical, these guys still need a rope, 2 harnesses, and one belay device. They did get a grigri and two pairs of shoes (one pair older La Sporty Megas and one pair La Sporty Focus, both needing resoling). If they sell or try to use the gear, I doubt they would take the time to pull off all the electrician's tape I used to mark it, which is in a white-blue-white pattern. I should mention that I found out about another Spokane climber ripped off the same weekend: one of the Wild Walls gym employees had his gear broken into outside his home, with his indoor climbing gear taken--it might be noticable because he engraved designs on some of his gear like his grigri. One of the items ripped was a brand new pair of red 5.10 shoes (Moccasyms?). I'm not holding out much hope for my own stuff, but appreciate the support and awareness I've received. I'll certainly be talking to more of the folks I don't know--climbers or non-climbers--at the crags from now on. --Steve Reynolds

Greg, Sabertooth pretty much hit it right on. One thing I would add is that, obviously, Minne is no destination area, but is perfect (except for the effing thefts) as an urban crag, to get out in the evenings or when your time is limited and you gotta be near town. Climbing problems and routes run the gamut, unless you're lookin for 5.13. As far as camping is concerned, unfortunately there's no camping at Minne...then again you wouldn't want to with potential of break-in problems for cars parked there overnight. Mt. Spokane still has lotsa snow, and would be good if you don't mind snow-camping, and would be even better yet if you wanna do skin-laps and ski on the 1200' or so vertical there is to play on. Their ski ops closed for the season last Sunday, so you'd have the hill to yourself along with maybe a small handful of other skiers and snowmobilers. Riverside State Park just northwest of town will have snow-free camping. Free camping?--you'd have to drive a ways out of town to the north or east (in ID) directions before you could get on FS or public land to camp. I'm also known for putting up friends and climbers, but right now you'd have to contend with some remodeling work I'm doing--let me know.

AlpineK, Wish the place was better, at least it looks better. The problem at Minne has always been the non-climbers, and they’re still the problem. Such is this urban crag. Jake, One thing I’ve noticed out at Minne this spring is that some of the trails, especially in the same bouldering area we’ve been talking about, are disappearing in new grass growth. Something I haven’t seen for many years. I thought bouldering was more popular today than ever, but it seems there isn’t as much bouldering going on at Minne as there used to be. Perhaps the locals need to be reminded about what a great bunch of problems exist out there. AaronB, If you knew me, you'd know I'm not rude, but you'd also know I'm not afraid to call it like it is. As was expressed in the above posts (please read *all* of the above), and agreed upon by Jake, there was a lot more to climb out there both yesterday and today--Minne's not that small, there was more than just "some space" for others to climb, and we *were* in smaller groups. Most Spokane-area climbers know me, and know what Minne and our local club is about. I know you're new to town. Let me know, Aaron, and I'd be glad to show you around Minne and other crags around here, climb, and knock back a beer or two. Steve Reynolds

I wasn't there, but that was likely the instructor workshop for the same Mtn School program. They would have been ensuring the instructors were all on the same page as far as how to teach belaying, etc. Many of those folks are still fairly new climbers, so they were probably intrigued with whatever set-up you had going on for your aid self-belay. I can picture the looks you got myself! Reminds me of when I started solo-aiding out at Minne in the late 80s, setting up an anchor at the bottom of the route and heading on up. I typically had people gawking at me and my system then, too.

Yeah, Minx, thanks, I feel for you too. I'm taking your advice re. the identity theft: that's what I'm most worried about. Work tomorrow is shot, as I've got a big list of things to do to resolve some of this. The more I think about the theft, the more I have a gut feeling it might have been a HS or so-aged kid or two who I earlier saw cruising around. Not climbers, but obviously fascinated by what was going on. It's very possible they took the pack for the gear, and will try to make the most of the other goodies. --So I appreciate you all being on the lookout for it. I would love to do some Dane-style justice (that's a story ) on these (*@#%$$#%. --Steve

COOL let me know when you want to teach a leader class for free I will be alll over it We'd be glad to teach you anytime over here, Muffy. There are a lot of excellent lead-climbing instructors on this board, I'm sure, who would do the same thing for you at Smith, L-worth, Squish, or any of the other higher quality places on the west side.

We were told we did $35K worth of work when we did that all-volunteer project...sure we could do it for hire, or give you the beta to do the work yourself.

In 20 years of climbing at Minnehaha in Spokane, I've never heard of anyone running off with someone's crag pack. It happened to me today. Place was crawling with peeps today, including our Mountain School class, and when teaching activity died down late in the day, I took the opportunity to set up a TR on Ron's Climb/Bat Crack, right in the middle of the Main Wall. I set my pack down at the base of the climb, as we all normally do, and took 3-5 minutes out to walk a newly arrived gal toward where her boyfriend was, "around the corner." Came back and immediately saw my pack wasn't where I'd left it--I instantly knew it was ripped. I'm sure they saw me when I walked away, grabbed it and immediately ran to the road to a waiting car. As soon as I saw the pack was gone, I sprinted to the road. They were long gone. Like I said, normally the place is crawling with climbers. I'm sure whoever took it was lying in wait, saw the opportunity, and went for it. No witnesses, nobody saw nothing. Probably a drug head; I doubt it was a newbie climber in search of a new rack, but who knows. Pack was my well beaten up, 15-year-old Wild Country crag pack (can't remember name), about 2500 cub in or less. Color was Husky purple, with 2 yellow daisy chains running down the outside. Contained the following: - wallet w/ DL, cards - wedding ring(Gold "Comfort Ring") - Sprint cell phone - one set Camalots, 0.1 - 4.0, mostly newer single stems (# 0.5. 0.75, 4.0 were older double stems) - one set mostly older WC Rocks - original, old pair of LaSportiva Megas (white w/ purple laces) - newer pair of LaSportiva successor to the above (can't remember name, no longer made, a light red in color) - 15 quickdraws on purple Spectra 11" slings, and a few Petzl bones - half dozen-plus locking biners for TR set-ups - half dozen runners including 4 newer yellow Mammut - 3-4 lengths of TR webbing - old Grigri - couple older BD daisy chains - couple older 6-mm x 25' cordelletes Almost all the biners were newer BD: Mostly Neutrinos, a bunch of HotWires, 6 Positrons (BD's standard keylock that came out new last year), 6 or so OvalWires, 6 or so lockers. All gear is marked with WHITE-BLUE-WHITE electrical tape. I had just re-taped everything. I was thinking about engraving things, but too late now. Most of this gear was newer stuff I had replaced in the last 1-2 years. I immediately canceled the lone credit card (actually a debit card), and service on the cell phone. I reported it to the cops, and will look up the phone serial number of the phone and report that. Of significance in the wallet other than my debit card and DL were my auto and health insurance ID cards. Right afterwards, and not expecting much, I drove down main roads leading away from Minne, looking for the pack on the side of the road, etc., but no luck. I'll be checking the area pawn shops, mainly to get my ring back, but am not holding out much hope. I've got homeowner's insurance, which will cover at least the climbing gear. We've had problems in the past with basher-and-dashers with our cars parked near Minne, but like I said, taking a crag pack at the base of the climbs is a new one. I blame myself for leaving it for someone to take, and want the rest of you to beware out there. If any of you see what you think might be my gear or pack, don't hesitate to do what would be appropriate, and get in touch with me ASAP. I haven't had anything ripped from me for about 14 years...anybody have any special advice? Thanks, Steve Reynolds

Thanks, Jake. Yeah, it would have been hard to jump in, but we do share our ropes when we can. I'd be glad to climb or boulder with you anytime. Bouldering is what really drew me to Minne in the first place. I might have come on a bit strong, but I do stand by what I said. Some of my emotion is certainly from the fact my crag pack got ripped off today. I'll save that for a new topic. --Steve

Albeit a highly skewed TR. Muffy, perhaps I was being oversensitive. But I thought Jake's post needed to called out for what is was, and it was a good opportunity to set the record straight. And sorry, dear, you weren't there. You might have enjoyed our social situation. While our student group is large overall (about 35 students), everything is broken down into smaller groups of 3-4. Instructor to student ratio is 1:2 or less, and instruction is highly individualized, as climbing instruction should be. Minne is a large place, and we were in a couple of the prime bouldering areas. But there was much more out there for anyone to boulder, lead, or TR today. As far as noise and commotion is concerned, it's there, but not from the climbers, as we climbers aren't running around screaming our heads off. The noise and commotion is from this being an urban climbing area: sounds of helicopters and vintage biplanes buzzing overhead from nearby Felts Field, gunshots from an even closer law enforcement shooting range, noise from traffic on the adjacent road.

Jake, You whining crybaby. Why couldn't you have come up and spoken to any of us, rather than feel the need to post your squawking here? If you had approached any of us at the time, including me, we would have gladly talked with you, given you the straight scoop, and it would have been civil I'm sure. We might even have shared a rope with you. Instead you air this crap on this board. First thing I'll say, is that if it wasn't for that "herd," you would not have Minnehaha Rocks for a climbing area, and the property would have been developed for private housing almost 20 years ago. That herd, along with Mountain Gear and Spokane County Parks, teamed together to keep Minnehaha a climbing, hiking, biking area back in the mid to late 1980s. Recently, the herd has been responsible for cleaning the area up, including sandblasting all the graffiti off the main walls and in your prized bouldering area. Time to straighten some things out here. The group was the Spokane Mountaineers--and no, contrary to the popular belief on this board (yeah, I like the caption contests as much as the rest of you) they are not a division of the Sea Mounties. The Spo Mounties may share a common name and interest with the Sea Mounties, but we take pride in being an autonomous outdoors club, representing outdoorspeople of the Inland Northwest since 1915, conserving and preserving recreation properties and open spaces, providing instruction for outdoor activities including climbing, hiking, BC skiing, and a few more mountain- and water-oriented pursuits. We are fortunate to have an excellent safety record (knock on wood), and have not suffered the problems some other large nonprofit outdoor groups and even some guide services have, in regard to accidents. And--for the most part--we try not to disrupt others where we may do our thing. We do have a history of having had a few rather exceptional climbers participate in our programs. We take pride in being a small, fairly flexible, nonbureaucratic (well, at least as much as possible) outdoors club. If you want to know more, you can check out our website at www.spokanemountaineers.org. There is a need in outdoor communities for responsible organizations to provide competent instruction. In regard to what you saw out there, it was our Mountain School. The packs were larger than what you normally see at the crags because earlier in the day, folks hiked up to the top of Beacon Hill IN TRAINING. After all, it’s “Mountain School.” If this had been Rock School or Lead School, you would’ve seen smaller crag packs instead. For many of those people it was there FIRST DAY EVER CLIMBING ON ROCKS. While I and maybe you have soloed hundreds of feet off the ground, and perhaps feel comfortable on boulder problems up to 20’ or more up (well, I used to), it’s not appropriate for beginners, obviously. Ever heard of liability, Jake? Jake, you’re not just a whiner, you’re a spin doctor. Much of what you were describing is exaggerated. That “horizontal” rigging system was the only way to have rigged what is perhaps one of the best little chimneys to teach that technique. Not that it makes much difference, but it was closer to 15’, not 10’, by the time you can step off. Most years it hasn’t been TR’ed, but this is the age of liability. As far as pulling the climber off, well, I can’t speak to that, but I have to question your credibility with this major spin-job post of yours. As far as the group around the corner was concerned, if a guy wanted to downclimb (yeah, we teach downclimbing, too), all the more power to him for downclimbing on TR. In fact, I believe you’ve never climbed that little route, or you would know that in a portion of it, it is easiest to FACE OUT. And if you had climbed it before, you would know not only that but also, overall, that climb is a little awkward for a beginner, which is likely the reason why the person you saw wasn’t having the easiest time of it. You would know that IF you had climbed it. BTW, that little 15’, 5.0 testpiece is called The Cleft. You’re welcome to boulder it sometime (including on the other 364 days of the year or so we don't have a rope on it). As far as the climbs we take up, we try to be cognizant of our impact and others at Minne or elsewhere whenever we gather en masse, but there is simply no other way around it, sorry. That little bouldering area, unfortunately for others like you, is perfect for teaching beginners who are getting up off the ground for the first time ever. HOWEVER, this was only one smaller portion of Minne where we were climbing. And it is for only one day for the whole year that we are in that particular bouldering area. You should have taken the opportunity to explore much of the other prime bouldering around Minne, where there are MANY more problems, and where you WOULD have found solitude today. As far as the firemen are concerned, that is Spokane County’s high-angle rescue team. You know, they have to do training sometimes. It’s good for both you and me, and especially the greater community. They were only taking up one small spot, where the climbs The Hooker and The John are, on the Secondary Face. I’d like to see you boulder those. They’re what, 5.11c/d, in the 20-25’ range? Normally led or TR’ed. I’ve never heard of them being bouldered/soloed. I would be out at Minne tomorrow too, Jake, but I’m going skiing instead. Be warned, the herd will be there. No, not in your bouldering area, you’ll have that back. They will have moved on toward the Main Face and longer climbs. Sorry for those of you who might want to climb on some of these routes we’ll have ropes on, but we are known for sharing our TRs with others who want to climb, if you’d just ask. And next time you’re out there, Jake, you’re welcome to speak to me in person. If you’re civil, I might share a rope with you, or give you a spot on your favorite boulder problem. Steve Reynolds

Right on, Will. As I was going down through this thread, I was wondering if/when I would see the name of Jim Bridwell as "most influential" and "done the most for American climbing." Many others named here deserve credit, including those you mention, but for vision, style, ethics across the broad range of climbing as we know it today, Bird is indeed the most influential, and THE MAN. And, yeah, that WC catalog/brochure about the invention of cams sure is hype and distortion of actual history. While Jardine might have made his contribution to cam design, chippers be damned! Now E-Rock, I haven't exactly been living in a hole, but this is the first I've heard of this: what's the source of this accusation of the Bird wanting to bolt holds on El Cap? If somewhat credible, musta been some line or story made and heard by a fire in a smoky haze...

I've not done Wy'East's summer tele clinic, but have been a student of Shelley's, Nils, others during Nils' annual Beyond the Groomed weekend in mid-Feb--I did that a couple years ago. The Wy'East summer camp is run by Shelley I believe and has the same basic cadre of instructors that gather for Nils' workshops...I can't say enough good about them. You're in for a stellar time if you plan on doing it. Now that I've reviewed the Wy'East site and see their list of summer camp instructors, I'd love to go too, but don't have the $ or time this year...maybe next year. Snoboy, here's a cc.com thread on the general topic from last fall, including some first-hand info from nonanon: tele class

Nice 'fro. Here's a list for ya Snugtop, from a prof of mine from WSU. Start at this page first (where he can keep track of his hit count), then click on "go to list of errors." Paul Brians' Common Errors in English

For those in the eastern WA/northern ID area (near Spokane), there is a WMI-taught WFA course (one weekend-long course) offered every October, usually the second weekend of the month. There's usually also a WMI-taught WFR (week-long course) offered in spring or early summer of each year. If interested, feel free to PM me.

Agree-ee-ee-ee-eed!

Who knows, maybe if they weren't going to get her on lying and obstruction of justice, they would've pressed to get her on insider trading. Seems to me they were out for her.

SEC rules on insider trading. That's a common misperception. On the contrary: the feds didn't charge her on anything to do with insider trading. All the charges brought against her, and for which the jury found her guilty, had to do with lying and "obstruction of justice"--her behavior and cover-up activities--once the feds started investigating her for possible insider trading charges. If Martha had more fully "cooperated" with the feds from the beginning after the initial allegations of wrong-doing, she likely wouldn't be in the trouble she is in now. If the feds thought they had anything on her regarding insider trading, they obviously would have charged her for those too.