pindude

I agree with Shapp re. the price. My 4x4 V6 1994 Toy ext cab that I bought new has 255K, having replaced timing belt 2x (proactive), water pump, transmission, clutch. I do the normal maintenance very regularly including oil, rad fluid, diff, trans, etc. All the body parts replaced due to elk, bad drivers, etc. over $10k worth over the last 10 years. I believe it was in early 1996 I got the recall notice on the V6 head gasket seal. Before the seal was replaced, I hardly lost any oil, but after the change, I've regularly lost about a quart of oil about every 1500 miles ever since then...interesting, cause no stains on the garage floor, and the engine stays pretty clean. However, valves, engine still running very efficiently. After owning/driving, Ford, GMC/Chevy, and Dodge trucks, I sure will be buying another Toyota rice-burner.

This east-sider is very much interested in this brand-new group, but find it difficult to attend west-side meetings (or I wouldn't still be a Pub Club virgin ) As minx suggests, I would like to be on some sort of email/contact list: sreynoldsaticehousedotnet. Spliff, Not sure what the commment toward GregW is all about, but don't let one person get you down. This is a brand new group: the intentions are honorable, and I'm sure will represent the climbing community well if we give it a chance...and especially if climbers from a variety of backgrounds and interests get involved. I'm not as well informed, perhaps Chelle or others could take the time to spell out in more detail exactly what the WCC is all about. Cheers, Steve

What a shock. Reese grew up and learned to climb in the PNW, and always considered this area a home ground even after he moved to Ventura and then Aspen. One of the humble and quiet who did a LOT for the climbing community--among others--and well-liked by everyone. I regret I didn't get to spend more time with him on a rope, or on skis. While I've never tried paragliding, I had thought about trying it with him. He stayed at our place on his way back home last year after he left the championships in Chelan...now I have to break this news to my wife. My condolences to Charlotte, their families, and Reese's friends everywhere.

Out at Banks Lake today, and prepping to rap down the west side of Highway Rock, I threw my fairly new 10.2 x 60 extra-dry Beal down onto a ledge with poison ivy--unseen from above. Quite the surprise when the first climber rapped to it. I did some searching and best method to clean it I understand means using a mild detergent. I'll wash it by hand in a tub/sink, then rinse using my old SMC rope washer. I'm concerned about getting the PI oils off and at the same minimizing any changes to the rope including taking off any dry coating or changing the hand. My questions: 1. What is the best soap to use? (Woolite?) 2. Anyone have any specific experiences/successes/failures? Thanks!

I just got back from the Banks Lake area myself, along with a little poison ivy encounter. SMG, thanks for posting the info. Re. purchase of the property, it would obviously mean pulling together a few people and resources. You're welcome to email me directly at sreynoldaticehousedotnet. A good start would be to get you in touch with Rick, who has done a number of routes out there as well and spends more time out there than anyone I know. I believe he knows some of the local Grand Coulee-Electric City area climbers.

Marty, You're even trying to rationalize away the results of this poll. Does the bullshit and ridiculousness ever end? You have no idea what you are talking about, and you don't know the Spokane Mountaineers, who are completely autonomous and have no ties to the Mountaineers of the west side. The Spokane Mounties are a fiercely independent organization. Its individuals represent most every part of the INW outdoor community, and there are many different opinions depending on the topic. 99% of them don't read or post here, but the ones that have, and the ones I've spoken to, are unanimous about this issue and reflect what has been posted on this board and in this poll. Many of my climbing friends do not belong to any organized outdoors club, and are too independent for that. From those I've spoken with, their opinions again are the same as the consensus being shown on this board. So who exactly is the climbing sage you speak of?

I’d rather climb and be constructive than have to sit at my keyboard and screen. Marty, if your comments weren’t directed to me by name, I wouldn’t be answering them. But you leave me no choice, because they demand correction. You asked for it, you got it. You don’t seem to realize that one of the great purposes of providing a climbing guidebook is precisely to document history. So you personally don’t know Larry, nor made the effort, but you saw fit to roundly diss him in your book: That speaks volumes. Is it ever too late to make amends? Obviously you didn’t do much constructive speaking with Rick either, who is another honest and honorable person. You really should get the first-hand info straight from Rick before spouting off to everyone in the world. However, my understanding is that Scott’s bolted routes were unclimbable (and among the first routes he ever tried to put in—I take it he didn’t know what he was doing and never worked the route before drilling?), and he put them in with his girlfriend. I don’t believe it was several routes, more like one or two. Rick called Scott, reached his girlfriend instead, who gave him permission to remove the hangers. How’s that for particular reason? He’s personally established way more than 30 routes, more than all other first ascensionists combined, as far as the Banks Lake area is concerned: you’ll see when the guidebook comes out. Rick’s not printing a guidebook to make money—you likely know INW guidebook authors aren’t raking in the dough . From conversations I’ve had, the book will be more to chronicle the climbs for current and future climbers, in the name of…history! Rick’s actually pretty altruistic—he’s done a lot to introduce and teach climbing to many, including showing his routes to virtually anyone who knows him. I’m sure you didn’t know he even gives away to certain others the FA’s on routes he has spent $ and literally worked hours on to install—good routes he could easily do the FA’s on his own. You yourself could probably answer this better, but likely several things are going on here including quite possibly the project you stole and wrote your own route name at the base with Sharpie marker. No comment. Marty, you know the granitic gneiss of Banks Lake is much more friable than the younger and much more pristine (now once pristine) granite of Dishman. For those of you who know Frenchman Coulee, the Banks Lake area granite lies underneath and is older than the basalt layer that exists around Vantage. At least as much as the basalt routes around Vantage, most routes in the Banks area require some work to clean dangerous, loose rock (in addition to great amounts of moss, lichen, and dirt) before they can be climbed…and even then one must always climb with great caution there. I’ve trundled more than one BIG rock on routes others thought were clean. “Chipped line?” I’d be glad to show Dane the climbs out there, including the climb you claim is chipped. Since you don’t know Rick well, I can assure you he would never chip a route to make a hold. For the climb in question, Rick encountered a loose flake he didn’t want to come off on anyone climbing the route, and in his efforts to make it safe he used a drill to help pry it off—the resulting scar was inadvertent, and certainly wasn’t meant as a hold. I and many others do. When doing routes, I almost always make a point of checking out who did the FA, when, and in what style. If possible, I even talk to them! One of the great benefits of the climbing community, at least currently. Our sport is a young one, but a lot of our pioneers are dying. Even though I don’t have the athletic ability and skill level of you Marty, I’m grateful for and have had the great satisfaction of spending time—including even climbing—with a few of the folks considered greats in our community. I’m not sure if there is another sport where this is possible to the extent we have in climbing. I’m sure we don’t know each other’s friends well, but we likely know at least a few. Truthfully, I’d like to know your circle better. It would be good for all of us. I talk to plenty enough climbers, not just INW folks, who run the complete gamut of skill levels and experience. I feel fortunate my circle isn’t a little one. The climbing community—on the local, regional, and national/international levels—are a lot more supportive and a lot less divisive than it might seem by this discussion, at least in its early stages. Consensus on this board is becoming obvious, and you’d get a better idea of the local consensus if you’d talk to folks at Minne, PF, and other places that don’t have the concentration of harder climbs you’re used to like at Riggins, Metaline, China Bend. In cleaning graffiti, changing the texture of the rock was/is always of great concern. I’ve researched and talked to a few folks about it, and tried to do my best. We’ve tried several different types of chemicals, from commercial mixes made specifically for cleaning graffiti, to industrial stuff including acids, but nothing worked on the granite of Minne. Still, we used the finest sand possible and took care in doing as little damage as possible. Yes, it takes the patina off the rock, but I’ve been told by at least one geologist that the rock will return to its slightly darker original colors. If there are better methods, including chemicals, I’m open to them. As far as new graffiti, it is at a minimum and is mainly on the south end of the crag next to the road where there isn’t any real climbing. The rate of new graffiti popping up at Minne very markedly dropped off after our initial cleanup efforts two years ago. With that cleanup, Minne once again belongs more to climbers and the general community. Re. Rock 106 graffiti, I agree. Unfortunately someone else already graffitied over it, but I think it can be saved with a little work. Marty, you’re welcome to go on saying you won’t be remembered 40 years or more from now, but you will. You’re making history right now with your statements on the rock, in your guidebook, and on the web including here. You can’t distance yourself from the other Dishman Hill vandals with your own chipping, graffiti, etc., and your willingness to speak for them. The consensus is taking obvious shape, and one of the big questions is how much you and the other vandals are out or in as far as the future is concerned. I just saw first hand what you and your buds have done, and it’s a crying shame. It’s much worse than I ever expected, with much of the desecration occurring just this spring. Sure there’s a water tower on top, sure you can hear the Appleway dealership paging system, but that’s a lot less urbanity than exists at Minne. If Sharma did come through Spokane, I’d be glad to show him the DH wall as it exists now—think he’d be happy with it? Your rationalizations for the desecration of DH are inexcusable. We already have the protected resource of the Dishman Hills Natural Area immediately adjacent to this great little crag. Ever wondered how much further effort it would take to protect the DH wall for future climbers? Instead, you and your buds treat it like it should be blown up like highway rock. I think we’re too nice here in Spokane, and it’s obvious our climbing community is small—thus the reason why you were able to try and get away with this shit up to now. If DH were transported to the Puget Sound area, you can bet the outcry would have already been made and the consensus established long ago. If this was happening in England, even in the mined but exceptionally climbable quarries, the guilty would already have their balls cut off and hanging in the nearest pub. It’s not what I’m advocating, not at all. You and your vandal friends still have the opportunity to redeem yourselves, but only if the bullshit stops right now. Among many things you don’t understand, but of incredibly obvious and great importance, is that future access to Dishman Hills is in great jeopardy because of what you and the others have done . Way to go. It’s private property, but you don’t even know or care who the owner is! I can’t believe I even have to spell this out for you, the author of a guidebook! As far as 12 W. Sprague is concerned, you know they’re great folks, and they’re not just out to make a buck—they’re also here for the support of the community. I’ve experienced it first-hand, and am thankful for it. OK, so we go forward from here, and the direction is becoming more clear, I hope, for you and your friends. Steve Reynolds

Nice to see this thread heated up with some good, long overdue dialogue needed for this little wall called Dishman Hills, and the Spokane area in general. Marty, I knew retrobolting was happening out there for years (more than just 3 years ago), but I didn’t pay much attention to it. With this attention—thanks Dane for noticing the news from Marty’s website—it can be ignored no longer, and it’s time we reach a consensus and do what is right. Marty, I took it for granted that you and your buds knew what you were doing, and had contacted the first ascensionists—too bad you didn’t. Honestly, I don’t climb there much anymore, especially since I blew my shoulders out 3 years ago, but I’m getting stronger. You can bet I’ll be climbing more out there now. Dishman Hills lost a lot for me after the fire there in the early 90s, and since the new water tower went in, twice I was nearly dumped on by their water discharges right over the crag. Really disturbing is all the trash being dumped out on the road. I spent some time out there climbing last October (last time I was there): did you notice much of the garbage—at least all that was on the trail in and at the base of the crag—got cleaned up?…Several of my buds and myself spent several hours on it. Some of the garbage was from climbers. Not sure what exactly you mean by the wet paint…don’t use that as an excuse to deface the rock yourself. Ask Todd H: he knows what to do when we find wet paint out at any crag. If you want the beta on cleaning graffiti, we got it. I’ve never found bums on the walk in, but there sure is much that can be done to clean up the dumped garbage near the parking. Do you know who the property owner is? Have you ever spoken with them? I have, and I’m sure they would join us to clean that place up. I’ll be blunt: Marty, you don’t represent the consensus of the climbing community, either locally, regionally, or nationally. Writing your route names in Sharpie marker at the base of routes, chipping, using tats or bolted-on holds, bolting near protectable cracks, and retrobolting lines without the first ascensionist’s blessing is NOT ethical, and is not tolerated. Dane IS very representative of the consensus of the climbing community. You want to confirm consensus? Talk to the climbers OUTSIDE your insular circle, including the bumblies like me who’ve been around and still spend a lot of time at Minne, doing moderate stuff at the crags and sometimes in the alpine. Speak to the older climbers who have perspective. Still very active climbing around Spokane, and climbing hard, are Bob Loomis and Thom Nephew. John Roskelley still climbs, when he has time. I’m sure Curt Shannon would be glad to give his viewpoint, as well as Larry, Dave S., Steve Jeffries, Jay Koopsen, Dave Fulton and Rick LaBelle—if you’d listen to them. And don’t overlook Eminger, Kittel, Reames, Mitch Merriman, Todd and Jim. I don’t know if you’ve ever met Robert Ordner and Rusty Baille—they know not just what’s going on locally, but have strong national and international scope. Southern Mtn Guide has perspective, as does Micheal Lane at OP, and Mtn Gear and Paul Fish...I'm sure there are a lot more I'm leaving out. Don't drag down the folks at W. 12 Sprague. A lot of this is about respect: respect for the rock, respect for past, present and future climbers, respect for the community, and respect for self. In 10 or 20 years, and much longer, climbers WILL still recognize you and Dane for your contributions, and this current debate and resulting actions will be noted. Those who ignore history are the uncaring or illiterate. Marty, I respect you for your climbing ability, that you work at a good and honest trade, and are married to an incredibly talented and intelligent woman. But I don’t respect you for the uncaring and disrespectful attitude you have shown for all posterity in your guidebook for Larry Peterman and Rick LaBelle and the local urban crags we are lucky to have in Spokane including Minne and Dishman Hills, and your defacement of the rock. We’re moving in the right direction with this dialogue, and I look forward to doing what we can to not only clean up DH, but ensure we have it and other crags for future climbers. I know if we work at this together, and we move toward what is consensus in the climbing community, that I would respect you for much more. Steve Reynolds

Marty, you know who I am. It’s Steve Reynolds, not Ken Nichols. I’m not anti-bolt, as you make me out to be. And I’m certainly not one with an ego problem. Your posts are ridiculous. What the hell are you going on about? The issues are simply the following. Not to be tolerated are: 1. Chipped holds 2. Bolted-on holds 3. Bolts next to protectable cracks If you’ve got any problems with that, then we really need to talk. PM me, and I’ll give you my phone number.

I'll be taking a look at DH wall soon, thanks.

Bout time I found this thread: great one, especially with the pics. Dane, thanks. From conversations I've had with friends over the years, yes, consensus is definitely Illusions/Free Friends to be considered as "best." I don't know many who've climbed Eye of the Tiger...certainly not me. Compared to what happened on this stone in the 80s, this gaper is still waiting for the next generation to come along and up the ante.

The topos in the Chimney Register are merely copies from Randy's original 87 guide. New lines/routes are not shown unless climbers have drawn them in since the register was placed on the summit last summer. Great questions/answers. More history and shiz clarified right here on cc.com.

That rock bolted in has been there since the 80s, I believe, and protects that flake from popping off. Unsightly, but I'm more accepting of that than some effing unreal plastic gym hold bolted to that granite face. Who's responsible for that?

Spoke to Ed of the Coolin USFS office: apparently he's a phone guy, and doesn't check his email but "once a month." He says the logging company is running 8 trucks up and down Hunt Creek Road, starting around 4 am and running to about 5 pm during weekdays. Not operating on weekends. If you have a CB, they are on Ch. 8. Otherwise I would wait for a truck and travel behind (he'll radio the others as well) to be safe. It's not a 40-day contract to salvage the lumber, but a one-year. But they hope to "be done in about 40 days" according to Ed, before fire danger stops their operation for the summer and while the timber is still good. He was skiing up there last week on Wed, and could drive up Horton Ridge Rd until just before the last 1/4-mile or so traverse below the old lookout site. Very likely that will be open for this weekend he thinks. Indian Creek access to Horton Ridge Road, because it is on a northerly aspect, probably is still with snow in spots and not feasible, Ed thought. He said the skiing is good on both sides of Roothann Ridge, with 10-12' depth in the north bowl and leading down toward drainage shared with Chimney Rock west face. Have fun for those of you headed up there this weekend.

Gym hold? Chipped holds? WTF is going on out there? Bolts are never acceptable near a protectable crack. I haven't been been out to DH wall since last year, but if the rock is indeed being brought down to certain person's levels, then action should be taken.

In Spokane: GSI Outdoors Integral Designs USA Mountain Gear ACME Climbing Also: Cascade Toboggan - Sandpoint, ID Northwest River Supplies - Moscow, ID Buck Knives very soon to open in Post Falls, ID after relocating from San Diego I assume you're not talking your standard outdoor retail shop, or we could add much more.

Sorry, don't know about these, even though my home is in Mead. The towns straight north of Mead along Hwy 2 these boulders could be near are, in order: Colbert, Chattaroy, Riverside, and Elk. Even though I climb basalt, and I've done my share of riding and trundling choss--Deep Creek, and the pillow-type basalt around Spokane--scares me and I tend to avoid it when I can. Nice list, BB.

ski it!

MC, let's do some bouldering together. Many of the cult of the pad people disappear after the local colleges (GU, Whitworth, others) end for the spring quarter...one of the beauties of Minne is that much of it is often deserted on weeknights in the middle of summer. I didn't know you'd been getting out there: that's more me not being there than you. I'll be there Wed evening. Blowboard, I was just wondering how well you knew Minne. I never thought it was likely "the best in the state" either, but I'm not one to judge. I'd like to know comparisons too. Glad to know you are/were a local. I grew up in Spokane barely on the west (Glenrose) side of the ridge just to the west of Dishman Hills. Most of my first bouldering was in the DH Natural Area, and all the many rocks to the south leading all the way up to the Tower Mtn area while MB'ing, hiking/running, and riding horses through those hills--glad to hear you discovered them too. I'm involved with a group to try and save some of that property (south of DH Nat Area to Rocks of Sharon) from development, and at least establish one contiguous trail that is friendly for MB'ing, hiking, and horses. Many of the parcels south of the DH Nat area are still private, but much land has been purchased and is now public, from near Tower Mtn and down into the valley, where you can legally MB, etc, from an access point at about 44th Ave and Schafer Road. Cheers, Steve

I'm not so sure that there are any established problems at Minne overcome with lichen or moss. As far as peeps bouldering at Minne, I see em out there all the time. Hey, Martin, why don't I ever see you bouldering? I originally wondered about Sherman's Minne comment myself, but book was written when bouldering was just getting really popular (I think it helped it along), and I would assume Sherman did not know all of WA bouldering at the time. Since the book has come out, we've got countless new and outrageous problems all over the state, not to mention worldwide. Regardless, Minne's excellent for bouldering, and climbers and boulderers alike have a lot to thank the Vermin for. Edited to add: I don't get around the state much just to boulder; if I'm travelling I'm likely doing some trad, alpine or sport climbing. I'm sure there are more bouldering areas that rival Minne, but the only other bouldering area I know of, and could be considered better than Minne as far as concentration of good problems, is in the Icicle. What are others? Blowboarder, hopefully when you bouldered at Minne, you had a *knowledgable* bouldering local showing you round, and weren't going just by some guidebook. Many problems and rocks never make it into guidebooks--Minne's no exception.

Spoke to Jim at the ID Dept of Lands office in Coolin. Ed of their office was reportedly skiing up there this past week on a day trip. I've emailed him, but don't expect a reply until next week. For now, official road access to Chimney from the East Priest Lake Road is same as last year, from Indian Creek and the north to get to the old Horton Ridge lookout. Hunt Creek road currently has logging trucks running up and down it, salvaging the burned timber from last year's fire, caused ironically by logging. So if you don't have a CB and know the trucker's channel, you'd be at risk there. They're possibly logging 7 days a week to get timber out, since they have a limited 40-day contract to do so. I'm headed to Canada for a family graduation, so have fun this weekend guys. If I get a message back from Ed, I'll post again.

Spung and SMG, I'd love to know too, but haven't heard from anyone. No Chimney approach road info at all on the IPNF website (normal). With fed observance tomorrow, Priest Ri USFS office is probably closed, but ID State Parks Coolin office may be open, and they *may* know approach road info: 208-443-2200 or 208-443-2929. They should be able to tell us if we can go up the normal Hunt Creek Rd, or if they're logging on it and they're sending folks up from the Indian Creek side like they were trying to do last summer. Regardless, this is about the time of year the Horton Ridge Rd opens up all the way to the TH. With or without the wet weather, if I was headed up there this weekend, I'd bring up my skis...more choices. Nice pics Dane. I've gotten nailed by wet snow in white Grammici cotton up there, too, in July and August.

Wally, In Spokane you can go to Minne, and as you're facing the Main Wall from below, set up a TR anchor just to the right of Smoky Overhang: it's a nice overhang where you can get lots of Prusik practice in. The bolts above this line were put in for setting up TR Prusik anchors at least as much as for climbing. As far as a pulley system, there's enough random trees on top of either the Main or Secondary faces to set up Z, C, or Z x C systems to your heart's content, or take Dru's advice and climb/aid up and set up an anchor halfway up one the of classic crack climbs like Diagonal, Dihedral, Bat Crack, or Don Quixote.

Hopefully he showed you that slide he has of the foot.

Friends from Spokane-CDA area climbed Beckey route two weekends ago (Memorial weekend), reporting no problems on the rock. As far as rack goes, a modest rack (~20 pieces) of nuts and cams/hexes should do ya.