pindude

AlpineK, Just sent you a beta-filled PM. Martin (MCash) has good beta for you here. Actually, prime Chimney Rock, ID months are June-Sept (excuse me, Matt )...I've been baked on up there in October 1987, but some of the coldest I've been in my life was up there in August a few years back. If weather has warmed by the weekend (highs near 70 in valleys), and forecast does not include rain, I'd go for it for at least a day shot. If there is any rain at all in the Fx, then you're likely to feel it up on the north Idaho crest. Summitpost access info is confusing at best, and should be cleaned up. Best driving access is to follow, from East Priest Lake Raod, the Hunt Creek Road to Horton Ridge and the old lookout, about 10 miles on FS-type roads...best with high-clearance 4WD. Drive time from CDA is 2.0-2.5 hrs, and hike time is 1.0-1.5 hrs. There are many good routes, but consensus of best route to summit is Illusions/Free Friends at 5.11. Have fun. Edited to add: Good beta by Dane here at InlandNWRock.com .

The 2004 Post Falls Adopt-a-Crag Cleanup was a great success: 53+ showed up on what started out as a very rainy morning, and got literally TONS of work done! You'll see improved and better defined trails through much of the climbing areas in Q'emiln Park, leading to both the walls from down below, and TR anchors to the cliffs from above. I could list details--anyone else who wants to provide them is welcome--but if not it'll all be a great surprise for ya next time you're out there, from Post Wall to Fifth Canyon. It rained through much of the morning, and virtually all got muddy, but there were smiles on all folks' faces. And, according to Rusty, all his major work projects for the day were completed. Certainly there is more work to do for the future, but today's work was an incredibly significant improvement, and shows what happens when the community gets together. The greatest reasons for success for today's work and what will go on for the future at Q'emiln have to be given to Rusty Baillie for his original vision and drive, the support and planning of others including Robert Ordner and Richard LeFrancis, the City of Post Falls including Arborist Lynden Lampman and her crew (and especially their work at the Garden Wall...WOW!), and Avista for their significant financial contribution to Q'emiln Park and climbing. Further credit for help and support at the 2004 Post Falls Cleanup: * 50+ climbers from throughout the INW for a job well done * Kootenai Climber's Coalition * NIC and the Outdoor Pursuits program for planning and publicity * The Access Fund and corporate sponsors including REI and Clif Bars and all their donated prizes * The Spokane Mountaineers including all the members who worked today Local/regional sponsors donating prizes and support, in addition to the Access Fund and Clif Bars: * All About Sports * REI Spokane * Mountain Goat Outfitters * Mountain Gear * Omega Pacific * Black Diamond * Saltic * Mammut

Thanks, Dru, for the heads up. Incredible vid. Great audio too, had to turn that up. Interesting that the "hiker" got a number of different great angles and shots. Leads this insomniac to a number of questions, anybody please answer...OK, consider this a trivia quiz. 1. I understand that when Bachar did Father Figure at J-Tree that was the first 5.13 ever free soloed. True? 2. Is Kommunist the first 5.14 ever FS'ed? 3. Is Kommunist the hardest FS? 4. What has bro Thomas FS'ed? OK, off to bed. Hopefully sweet dreams of FS'ing and topping out...

Volunteers are needed to help with cleanup activities associated with the Access Fund's annual Adopt-a-Crag Cleanup, this Sunday, Sept. 12, beginning at 9:00 am at Post Falls' (ID) Q'emiln Park. For those not familiar with Post Falls, it's located just across the Washington border in Idaho--the climbs are on numerous granite single-pitch and smaller crags adjacent to the Spokane River in Q'emiln Park. While there have been annual cleanups in the past, this year's work is much more substantial: The City of Post Falls and Avista are providing at least $5,000--working with the Kootenai Klimber's Coalition--in support of various projects including improving and establishing the trail network in Q'emiln Park, cleaning up fire-prone brush and debris, and adding new anchors and protection for many of the climbs. Your help and presence Sunday will be greatly appreciated: members of the overall Inland NW climbing community will be present, as well as area retailers to give away prizes. Please bring gloves, sturdy work boots, food, water, and your climbing gear. Some tools will be provided, but volunteers are welcome to bring rakes, shovels, even weed trimmers and saws. After working into the afternoon, we will do some climbing: We'll set up climbs for all levels of skill, including beginners for whom instruction and equipment will be provided. This will be the biggest cleanup in the INW this year, and we will very much appreciate those climbers and the general public who can help, including those of you from outside the immediate area. Various work projects and activities are already established for which individuals are needed. If you plan to attend, please RSVP to the following: Robert Ordner, 509-443-7049 or btordneratworldnetdotattdotnet Steve Reynolds, 509-466-3004 or sreynoldsaticehousedotnet We thank you very much for your help!

Is true for the most part. This environmentalist used to work in the telcom industry, of all things, helping to build cell towers (helped to ensure towers were built RIGHT and investments were maximized for my bosses and company). Generally in the West and NW, for "backcountry service," Verizon is recognized as having the best analog coverage, AT&T second best. I don't personally know about analog coverage specifically for the Olympics and Cascades, but would assume Verizon. Our tower monkeys, from both west and east sides of WA, carried almost exclusively Verizon-service phones for communication from the field. Doesn't necessarily mean you're limited to Verizon or AT&T (soon to be Cingular), as companies like Sprint have their own digital towers or antennas for urban zones, and then contract for analog service with Verizon...that would be your "analog roaming" at about 30 cents/minute. Hey, there used to be a website--still around?--that showed geographically ALL the different companies coverages for both digital and analog. Most cell towers are built for multiple carriers, 3-6 is common especially for today's digital networks. Any tower-owning company, including a service provider such as Verizon, have incentive to lease space on the towers they own to competing services in order to maximize their ROI to build that tower. Each antenna array you see on a cell tower, usually separated by at least 10', represents a different service provider. Analog service, built out mostly in the 80s and early 90s, and now used mainly outside urban areas, has wider range per antenna array so requires less # of towers, and--with the $$ for the most part in digital and future technologies--will naturally have less carriers per tower.

First time I've seen this; I guess this is what rainy days are for. Marty, didn't anyone tell you to never "assume?" All or none? I'm certainly not that elitist, nor is that my "credo." Please don't read more into words than what they plainly state. Do you have a problem with me potentially having more concern for a member of the climbing community getting hurt out there than perhaps some drunken crackhead who was falling off the cliff while spray-painting it? What are you trying to do, pick a fight in a public setting? Next time feel free to contact me directly or move it to spray. Edited to add: mmmm, even my wife on reading this says I originally used a poor choice of words to convey what she knows I meant: I *am* a compassionate person for all, and naturally would care more for someone I know or someone is a member of the climbing community. Didn't mean to convey any disrespect or complete lack of care for others. Score one for you, Marty.

Broke her lower back, ouch. As far as Dechristo’s comments go, I’m another who agrees with Pope. Wally, points well taken. Until reading your post, I figured your friend was another in a long line of non-climbers who either inadvertently or on purpose end up in a climbing situation way over their heads and get injured or killed, and are commonly misreported by the media as being a "climber." The event was the lead story of the early evening news last Tuesday for the 3 main local TV news stations. Spokane KHQ (NBC) story KXLY news story with video Unfortunately one of the rescuers suffered heat exhaustion and had to be rescued himself. As a somewhat regular climber out there and a sometime instructor, I've been asked a lot of questions about what happened. Not knowing Lacy myself, nor the real story, each time I responded by saying I thought it was likely a non-climber who got into trouble. Now that I know your friend is indeed a climber, my relative lack of concern has changed: I hope Lacy heals quickly, completely, and is able to get back on the rock ASAP. If you read this Lacy, I’m glad you were not hurt worse, and wish you the best. --Steve Reynolds

Minx, Feel free to drop a PM or email next time your Spokane-way. Triplets was my first solo and down-climb, down a bombbay chimney...I've since rapped off slings from top (still years ago), and more recently new bolts may have replaced the old rap slings. Big Rock descent is a scramble (3rd class) down east side or raps down the west face on any of the newer 4 or so established routes there. I made some comments on your pix in the gallery. Thanks for posting 'em. Cheers, Steve

Missed all these replies until now. Good advice all, especially Dru's. I used Woolite, by hand, as I wanted to wash the new rope in just the end that touched the poison ivy: about 15 meters worth. I did rinse the shit out of the rope, and hope that all the soap is out. The washing must have worked, cause my main climbing partner is ultra-sensitive to PI, and hasn't complained yet. Next time I'm caught in the rain--which should be soon, with my history--we'll see how well I rinsed that soap out. Thanks guys.

Whoa, Marty. Time to pull the ego down several notches bro. Telling somebody they suck on the internet--without ever having met them--is another message that shouldn't have been sent. Trust me, Martin gets out at least as much as you, just not at the same places you hang at. I'm not sure why you say I "barely climb." Is that because I can't pull down on 5.13 like you? Cause I don't frequent the same crags you spend your time at? Should I mention what happened to you that day when we passed each other in our rigs below Chimney Rock? I may not be able to clean your draws, but let's do a cleanup, and --Steve Reynolds

Thanks so much Lowell. Well written and an obvious investment in time. Good to know about Martin, and that there were/are "subversives" in the Mountaineers.

I agree with Shapp re. the price. My 4x4 V6 1994 Toy ext cab that I bought new has 255K, having replaced timing belt 2x (proactive), water pump, transmission, clutch. I do the normal maintenance very regularly including oil, rad fluid, diff, trans, etc. All the body parts replaced due to elk, bad drivers, etc. over $10k worth over the last 10 years. I believe it was in early 1996 I got the recall notice on the V6 head gasket seal. Before the seal was replaced, I hardly lost any oil, but after the change, I've regularly lost about a quart of oil about every 1500 miles ever since then...interesting, cause no stains on the garage floor, and the engine stays pretty clean. However, valves, engine still running very efficiently. After owning/driving, Ford, GMC/Chevy, and Dodge trucks, I sure will be buying another Toyota rice-burner.

This east-sider is very much interested in this brand-new group, but find it difficult to attend west-side meetings (or I wouldn't still be a Pub Club virgin ) As minx suggests, I would like to be on some sort of email/contact list: sreynoldsaticehousedotnet. Spliff, Not sure what the commment toward GregW is all about, but don't let one person get you down. This is a brand new group: the intentions are honorable, and I'm sure will represent the climbing community well if we give it a chance...and especially if climbers from a variety of backgrounds and interests get involved. I'm not as well informed, perhaps Chelle or others could take the time to spell out in more detail exactly what the WCC is all about. Cheers, Steve

What a shock. Reese grew up and learned to climb in the PNW, and always considered this area a home ground even after he moved to Ventura and then Aspen. One of the humble and quiet who did a LOT for the climbing community--among others--and well-liked by everyone. I regret I didn't get to spend more time with him on a rope, or on skis. While I've never tried paragliding, I had thought about trying it with him. He stayed at our place on his way back home last year after he left the championships in Chelan...now I have to break this news to my wife. My condolences to Charlotte, their families, and Reese's friends everywhere.

Out at Banks Lake today, and prepping to rap down the west side of Highway Rock, I threw my fairly new 10.2 x 60 extra-dry Beal down onto a ledge with poison ivy--unseen from above. Quite the surprise when the first climber rapped to it. I did some searching and best method to clean it I understand means using a mild detergent. I'll wash it by hand in a tub/sink, then rinse using my old SMC rope washer. I'm concerned about getting the PI oils off and at the same minimizing any changes to the rope including taking off any dry coating or changing the hand. My questions: 1. What is the best soap to use? (Woolite?) 2. Anyone have any specific experiences/successes/failures? Thanks!

I just got back from the Banks Lake area myself, along with a little poison ivy encounter. SMG, thanks for posting the info. Re. purchase of the property, it would obviously mean pulling together a few people and resources. You're welcome to email me directly at sreynoldaticehousedotnet. A good start would be to get you in touch with Rick, who has done a number of routes out there as well and spends more time out there than anyone I know. I believe he knows some of the local Grand Coulee-Electric City area climbers.

Marty, You're even trying to rationalize away the results of this poll. Does the bullshit and ridiculousness ever end? You have no idea what you are talking about, and you don't know the Spokane Mountaineers, who are completely autonomous and have no ties to the Mountaineers of the west side. The Spokane Mounties are a fiercely independent organization. Its individuals represent most every part of the INW outdoor community, and there are many different opinions depending on the topic. 99% of them don't read or post here, but the ones that have, and the ones I've spoken to, are unanimous about this issue and reflect what has been posted on this board and in this poll. Many of my climbing friends do not belong to any organized outdoors club, and are too independent for that. From those I've spoken with, their opinions again are the same as the consensus being shown on this board. So who exactly is the climbing sage you speak of?

I’d rather climb and be constructive than have to sit at my keyboard and screen. Marty, if your comments weren’t directed to me by name, I wouldn’t be answering them. But you leave me no choice, because they demand correction. You asked for it, you got it. You don’t seem to realize that one of the great purposes of providing a climbing guidebook is precisely to document history. So you personally don’t know Larry, nor made the effort, but you saw fit to roundly diss him in your book: That speaks volumes. Is it ever too late to make amends? Obviously you didn’t do much constructive speaking with Rick either, who is another honest and honorable person. You really should get the first-hand info straight from Rick before spouting off to everyone in the world. However, my understanding is that Scott’s bolted routes were unclimbable (and among the first routes he ever tried to put in—I take it he didn’t know what he was doing and never worked the route before drilling?), and he put them in with his girlfriend. I don’t believe it was several routes, more like one or two. Rick called Scott, reached his girlfriend instead, who gave him permission to remove the hangers. How’s that for particular reason? He’s personally established way more than 30 routes, more than all other first ascensionists combined, as far as the Banks Lake area is concerned: you’ll see when the guidebook comes out. Rick’s not printing a guidebook to make money—you likely know INW guidebook authors aren’t raking in the dough . From conversations I’ve had, the book will be more to chronicle the climbs for current and future climbers, in the name of…history! Rick’s actually pretty altruistic—he’s done a lot to introduce and teach climbing to many, including showing his routes to virtually anyone who knows him. I’m sure you didn’t know he even gives away to certain others the FA’s on routes he has spent $ and literally worked hours on to install—good routes he could easily do the FA’s on his own. You yourself could probably answer this better, but likely several things are going on here including quite possibly the project you stole and wrote your own route name at the base with Sharpie marker. No comment. Marty, you know the granitic gneiss of Banks Lake is much more friable than the younger and much more pristine (now once pristine) granite of Dishman. For those of you who know Frenchman Coulee, the Banks Lake area granite lies underneath and is older than the basalt layer that exists around Vantage. At least as much as the basalt routes around Vantage, most routes in the Banks area require some work to clean dangerous, loose rock (in addition to great amounts of moss, lichen, and dirt) before they can be climbed…and even then one must always climb with great caution there. I’ve trundled more than one BIG rock on routes others thought were clean. “Chipped line?” I’d be glad to show Dane the climbs out there, including the climb you claim is chipped. Since you don’t know Rick well, I can assure you he would never chip a route to make a hold. For the climb in question, Rick encountered a loose flake he didn’t want to come off on anyone climbing the route, and in his efforts to make it safe he used a drill to help pry it off—the resulting scar was inadvertent, and certainly wasn’t meant as a hold. I and many others do. When doing routes, I almost always make a point of checking out who did the FA, when, and in what style. If possible, I even talk to them! One of the great benefits of the climbing community, at least currently. Our sport is a young one, but a lot of our pioneers are dying. Even though I don’t have the athletic ability and skill level of you Marty, I’m grateful for and have had the great satisfaction of spending time—including even climbing—with a few of the folks considered greats in our community. I’m not sure if there is another sport where this is possible to the extent we have in climbing. I’m sure we don’t know each other’s friends well, but we likely know at least a few. Truthfully, I’d like to know your circle better. It would be good for all of us. I talk to plenty enough climbers, not just INW folks, who run the complete gamut of skill levels and experience. I feel fortunate my circle isn’t a little one. The climbing community—on the local, regional, and national/international levels—are a lot more supportive and a lot less divisive than it might seem by this discussion, at least in its early stages. Consensus on this board is becoming obvious, and you’d get a better idea of the local consensus if you’d talk to folks at Minne, PF, and other places that don’t have the concentration of harder climbs you’re used to like at Riggins, Metaline, China Bend. In cleaning graffiti, changing the texture of the rock was/is always of great concern. I’ve researched and talked to a few folks about it, and tried to do my best. We’ve tried several different types of chemicals, from commercial mixes made specifically for cleaning graffiti, to industrial stuff including acids, but nothing worked on the granite of Minne. Still, we used the finest sand possible and took care in doing as little damage as possible. Yes, it takes the patina off the rock, but I’ve been told by at least one geologist that the rock will return to its slightly darker original colors. If there are better methods, including chemicals, I’m open to them. As far as new graffiti, it is at a minimum and is mainly on the south end of the crag next to the road where there isn’t any real climbing. The rate of new graffiti popping up at Minne very markedly dropped off after our initial cleanup efforts two years ago. With that cleanup, Minne once again belongs more to climbers and the general community. Re. Rock 106 graffiti, I agree. Unfortunately someone else already graffitied over it, but I think it can be saved with a little work. Marty, you’re welcome to go on saying you won’t be remembered 40 years or more from now, but you will. You’re making history right now with your statements on the rock, in your guidebook, and on the web including here. You can’t distance yourself from the other Dishman Hill vandals with your own chipping, graffiti, etc., and your willingness to speak for them. The consensus is taking obvious shape, and one of the big questions is how much you and the other vandals are out or in as far as the future is concerned. I just saw first hand what you and your buds have done, and it’s a crying shame. It’s much worse than I ever expected, with much of the desecration occurring just this spring. Sure there’s a water tower on top, sure you can hear the Appleway dealership paging system, but that’s a lot less urbanity than exists at Minne. If Sharma did come through Spokane, I’d be glad to show him the DH wall as it exists now—think he’d be happy with it? Your rationalizations for the desecration of DH are inexcusable. We already have the protected resource of the Dishman Hills Natural Area immediately adjacent to this great little crag. Ever wondered how much further effort it would take to protect the DH wall for future climbers? Instead, you and your buds treat it like it should be blown up like highway rock. I think we’re too nice here in Spokane, and it’s obvious our climbing community is small—thus the reason why you were able to try and get away with this shit up to now. If DH were transported to the Puget Sound area, you can bet the outcry would have already been made and the consensus established long ago. If this was happening in England, even in the mined but exceptionally climbable quarries, the guilty would already have their balls cut off and hanging in the nearest pub. It’s not what I’m advocating, not at all. You and your vandal friends still have the opportunity to redeem yourselves, but only if the bullshit stops right now. Among many things you don’t understand, but of incredibly obvious and great importance, is that future access to Dishman Hills is in great jeopardy because of what you and the others have done . Way to go. It’s private property, but you don’t even know or care who the owner is! I can’t believe I even have to spell this out for you, the author of a guidebook! As far as 12 W. Sprague is concerned, you know they’re great folks, and they’re not just out to make a buck—they’re also here for the support of the community. I’ve experienced it first-hand, and am thankful for it. OK, so we go forward from here, and the direction is becoming more clear, I hope, for you and your friends. Steve Reynolds

Nice to see this thread heated up with some good, long overdue dialogue needed for this little wall called Dishman Hills, and the Spokane area in general. Marty, I knew retrobolting was happening out there for years (more than just 3 years ago), but I didn’t pay much attention to it. With this attention—thanks Dane for noticing the news from Marty’s website—it can be ignored no longer, and it’s time we reach a consensus and do what is right. Marty, I took it for granted that you and your buds knew what you were doing, and had contacted the first ascensionists—too bad you didn’t. Honestly, I don’t climb there much anymore, especially since I blew my shoulders out 3 years ago, but I’m getting stronger. You can bet I’ll be climbing more out there now. Dishman Hills lost a lot for me after the fire there in the early 90s, and since the new water tower went in, twice I was nearly dumped on by their water discharges right over the crag. Really disturbing is all the trash being dumped out on the road. I spent some time out there climbing last October (last time I was there): did you notice much of the garbage—at least all that was on the trail in and at the base of the crag—got cleaned up?…Several of my buds and myself spent several hours on it. Some of the garbage was from climbers. Not sure what exactly you mean by the wet paint…don’t use that as an excuse to deface the rock yourself. Ask Todd H: he knows what to do when we find wet paint out at any crag. If you want the beta on cleaning graffiti, we got it. I’ve never found bums on the walk in, but there sure is much that can be done to clean up the dumped garbage near the parking. Do you know who the property owner is? Have you ever spoken with them? I have, and I’m sure they would join us to clean that place up. I’ll be blunt: Marty, you don’t represent the consensus of the climbing community, either locally, regionally, or nationally. Writing your route names in Sharpie marker at the base of routes, chipping, using tats or bolted-on holds, bolting near protectable cracks, and retrobolting lines without the first ascensionist’s blessing is NOT ethical, and is not tolerated. Dane IS very representative of the consensus of the climbing community. You want to confirm consensus? Talk to the climbers OUTSIDE your insular circle, including the bumblies like me who’ve been around and still spend a lot of time at Minne, doing moderate stuff at the crags and sometimes in the alpine. Speak to the older climbers who have perspective. Still very active climbing around Spokane, and climbing hard, are Bob Loomis and Thom Nephew. John Roskelley still climbs, when he has time. I’m sure Curt Shannon would be glad to give his viewpoint, as well as Larry, Dave S., Steve Jeffries, Jay Koopsen, Dave Fulton and Rick LaBelle—if you’d listen to them. And don’t overlook Eminger, Kittel, Reames, Mitch Merriman, Todd and Jim. I don’t know if you’ve ever met Robert Ordner and Rusty Baille—they know not just what’s going on locally, but have strong national and international scope. Southern Mtn Guide has perspective, as does Micheal Lane at OP, and Mtn Gear and Paul Fish...I'm sure there are a lot more I'm leaving out. Don't drag down the folks at W. 12 Sprague. A lot of this is about respect: respect for the rock, respect for past, present and future climbers, respect for the community, and respect for self. In 10 or 20 years, and much longer, climbers WILL still recognize you and Dane for your contributions, and this current debate and resulting actions will be noted. Those who ignore history are the uncaring or illiterate. Marty, I respect you for your climbing ability, that you work at a good and honest trade, and are married to an incredibly talented and intelligent woman. But I don’t respect you for the uncaring and disrespectful attitude you have shown for all posterity in your guidebook for Larry Peterman and Rick LaBelle and the local urban crags we are lucky to have in Spokane including Minne and Dishman Hills, and your defacement of the rock. We’re moving in the right direction with this dialogue, and I look forward to doing what we can to not only clean up DH, but ensure we have it and other crags for future climbers. I know if we work at this together, and we move toward what is consensus in the climbing community, that I would respect you for much more. Steve Reynolds

Marty, you know who I am. It’s Steve Reynolds, not Ken Nichols. I’m not anti-bolt, as you make me out to be. And I’m certainly not one with an ego problem. Your posts are ridiculous. What the hell are you going on about? The issues are simply the following. Not to be tolerated are: 1. Chipped holds 2. Bolted-on holds 3. Bolts next to protectable cracks If you’ve got any problems with that, then we really need to talk. PM me, and I’ll give you my phone number.

I'll be taking a look at DH wall soon, thanks.

Bout time I found this thread: great one, especially with the pics. Dane, thanks. From conversations I've had with friends over the years, yes, consensus is definitely Illusions/Free Friends to be considered as "best." I don't know many who've climbed Eye of the Tiger...certainly not me. Compared to what happened on this stone in the 80s, this gaper is still waiting for the next generation to come along and up the ante.

The topos in the Chimney Register are merely copies from Randy's original 87 guide. New lines/routes are not shown unless climbers have drawn them in since the register was placed on the summit last summer. Great questions/answers. More history and shiz clarified right here on cc.com.

That rock bolted in has been there since the 80s, I believe, and protects that flake from popping off. Unsightly, but I'm more accepting of that than some effing unreal plastic gym hold bolted to that granite face. Who's responsible for that?

Spoke to Ed of the Coolin USFS office: apparently he's a phone guy, and doesn't check his email but "once a month." He says the logging company is running 8 trucks up and down Hunt Creek Road, starting around 4 am and running to about 5 pm during weekdays. Not operating on weekends. If you have a CB, they are on Ch. 8. Otherwise I would wait for a truck and travel behind (he'll radio the others as well) to be safe. It's not a 40-day contract to salvage the lumber, but a one-year. But they hope to "be done in about 40 days" according to Ed, before fire danger stops their operation for the summer and while the timber is still good. He was skiing up there last week on Wed, and could drive up Horton Ridge Rd until just before the last 1/4-mile or so traverse below the old lookout site. Very likely that will be open for this weekend he thinks. Indian Creek access to Horton Ridge Road, because it is on a northerly aspect, probably is still with snow in spots and not feasible, Ed thought. He said the skiing is good on both sides of Roothann Ridge, with 10-12' depth in the north bowl and leading down toward drainage shared with Chimney Rock west face. Have fun for those of you headed up there this weekend.