DCramer

Hmm I wonder where you were? Did you see any bolts? Deadbocats and Antlers start off with a flake and then Bobcats moves right (face moves, maple tree at base?) to a left trending wide crack. I imagine they would both be a bit grimy. If I remember correctly the belay is off a tree. Since you were on rap I would imagine you would have seen any bolts. Did the pin look like it was once painted blue? The knobby wall is short 20' maybe and lots of knobs. You must have been very close to it. Next time I am out there I'll try to remember to walk over and see what better directions would be. The variation start is pretty bouldery but the first moves s/b the hardest.

What's the verdict on the recomendations?

I am not sure but I would be inclined to believe that a 60m rope would work probably even a 50m would work as well. The last pitch is very short. It is basically a 15’ OW/Squeeze. If your goal is to TR the route, I would think that the best thing would be to belay from the top. The belay ledge on top of the NA is spacious and flat and would be much more comfy than any other belay ledge on the route. After TRing the top two pitches I would rap and TR the second. This pitch would best be belayed at its base (ie top of the first) and is 10a. One caveat: The belay bolts at the top of the NA may be terrible. I am pretty sure they have been replaced but if not I would be reluctant to use them. If they are not in good condition setting up a backup is possible and it is relatively easy to climb off the back of the NA and climb over to the East Ledges.

By far the best 5.10 TR at Index would be the top two pitches of Narrow Arrow Direct. The top of the Narrow Arrow can be reached by any of several variations. (From 5.7-5.11) TR the top two pitches as one. The "TR" pitch will start off as a thin crack and turn into a hand crack thru a bulge. It then widens into a nice chimney with a rest just before the squeeze/OW finish. Multiple 5.10 cruxes. Great climbing! If you don't mind a bit of cleaning the Garden Wall has some nice 5.10 TRs. The routes on Hag Crag can be easily TR'd. Belay at the base of the chimney on the Lizard route and TR On the Virgin then climb the chimney and then move right and TR Walkin' the Dog and Sonic Reducer (Pulling up on the bottom bolts reduces the climb to 5.10.) Turning the bulge/roof is really fun. If you are over on the East Ledges don't forget about Walter B. The crux is a boulder type face move (5.11) but it ends on a ledge and from there the route is an athletic corner (5.10) Just lower to the bottom of the corner. Much better than Quarry Crack. In the Country it is easy to TR the first pitch of Heart of the Country. It is also easy to walk arouind the east side and set up TRs on Dead Bobcats and Lizard Antlers. Right to the right is a knob covered TR wall.

As I remember Hips and Valleys also has a short chimney section and it is easy to set a TR on it. Don't forget Roller Coaster Chimney, Black Widow or even Easter OH on Midnight.

the becky guide and back of the new guide, "Sky Valley Rock" by Darryl Cramer I believe it has had a second ascent and there might even be a new route or two on the Buttress as well.

Ya you say that as if good footwork and a pleasant personality mattered! He had to move to balance out EW and NY!

Hey I am an old guy (although not as old as Cairns, if he is who I think he is) so being so last year isn't so bad! D

I take it you won't argue with Left Side being over rated! My point about EW was that he left Squamish! I just looked up that bit about the .14 and damn you're right. I was confused because the route next to it (14b/c)in the guidebook was called " a contender for Canada's hardest route" and it was put up by a WA climber!

You know you got me thinking about how good some of the aid routes at Squamish are. Those expanding flakes are amazing. Are the aid routes on the Grand very popular these days? (excluding Uncle Bens)

huh? first 12 was put up by visiting Australian Nic Peart (left side of the split in 75) and rated 5.10+ Squamish ratings seem to move like the stock averages! Left side .12! Amazing. Who’d have thunk it! I was thinking of Sentry Box!

SQUAMISH: bouldering. INDEX: no bouldering worth speaking of There is excellent bouldering in the area including several Columbia boulder size rocks. SQUAMISH: sport routes of all grades 5.6-5.14c INDEX: only 5.11 and up basically; no 5.14s True. Wasn’t the first 5.14 in BC put up by a Wa climber? SQUAMISH: over 1,000 pitches of TRAD from 1 to 23 pitches in length including WORLD CLASSICS. INDEX: a few hundred pitches of trad, multipitch is only 5-6 p. long unless you count Mt Baring. heavily concentrated in the 5.10 to 5.12 range I bet there are over 1,000 pitches at Index. Didn’t the guy who put up the first .11 in Squamish (which turned out to be a 12) move to the states? Please name the world classics! SQUAMISH: clean on popular routes. INDEX: vegetated/mossy on even semipopular routes Most routes are clean SQUAMISH: a town to hang out in INDEX: a quarry converted to redneckville to camp out in It was a sad day when the Index Tavern closed SQUAMISH REST DAY ACTIVITY: windsurf, mountainbike, hike, smoke good Canadian weed. INDEX REST DAY ACTIVITY: Reptile Zoo. Reptile Man will be at my house on 8/4 come on over! SQUAMISH AID: about 2 dozen routes from 1-12 pitches and C1 to A4+. INDEX AID: mostly single pitch, dirty, or aiding free routes Lots of aid routes at Index most several pitches long but (even better) still lots of easily accessible FAs to be done! Wasn’t the Black Dyke climbed by guys from WA? Only a few OWs at Index too. Wasn't the hardest OW at Squamish done by WA climbers? DC

Ah yes Ehmic That's tourists find 3rd world countries so attractive.

But how many come back? DC

I will regret posting this! Ok Dru two A3 routes take your choice: Dragon Tail (just one measly pitch) Or V420 ok it's A3+ so I’ll throw in an extra $100 But on the serious side, Squamish has some really good routes no question. It also has a lot of moderate routes. But World Class hate to say it but if I flew across the country or from Europe to climb only at Squamish or Index I’d be very disappointed. While Squamish has a large number of routes, much like the local teens, it takes 30 or 40 to equal an Index route! Darryl ChucK, you should be out bouldering!

Darn! I was saving pictures in wrong color format! You have to use RGB not CMYK. Here is the picture. Several people suggested that I should post something about Dave's relatively unknown routes on the Upper Wall. I thougt it was a good idea, so here they are. STP - The feedback I have received indicates that the STP is slightly harder than the rating indicated in the Index guide. The rating here reflects that feedback. The crux is face climbing but there is plenty of difficult crack climbing on this route. HG - The climbing on this route is not the usual Index fare. The second pitch climbs a large dike barely discernable as a white streak just to the left of the route line. Darryl

ARRGHH! Didn't work. As soon as I figure it all out there will be a pic to see.

For some years I virtually gave up climbing although on occasion David and I would go off on some hair brained search for a new crag or route. On one of these trips we discussed the possibility of raising funds for bolt replacement. David’s energy and enthusiasm resulted in the creation of the Travelers’ Guide as well as reviving my interest in climbing. Although many people joined in the effort, the guide especially the Darrington topos, was the result of his hard work. He then devoted countless hours replacing bolts/anchors and recleaning routes all around the state. Usually he worked alone. Most of the new anchors at the Upper Wall are his work. He preferred to fly under the radar for the most part so most did not know the extent of his contributions to NW climbing. Next time you’re on the Upper Wall and reach a bomber belay take a second and whisper thanks to Dave. Darryl

I kept meaning to jump on this thread but have been preoccupied today. Alpinek has the right idea for many reasons. If the trees and shrubs are not trimmed they will eventually have an incredibly adverse impact on the climbing. Those who can remember back to the late 70's can attest to how messed up things can be. Periodic trimming is needed to maintain the area. The Lower Wall use to receive regular maintenance but in the 90s most of those climbers who brought snips to the crags stopped climbing. By the way anyone interested in spending a day cleaning (as in maintenance) some routes at Private Idaho/Lookout? Darryl

I am older and fatter than both of you! Plus Erik can confirm my wimpness. Erik it isn't a chossfess it is an ideal for living! I hesistated even telling R because I thought it would take over his life and be a marriage breaker.

So was I right? Or was I right about that being a good project for you?! The last classic great Index problem!

Speaking only to guidebooks, I think that depending on how it is formatted the idea is good. I remember a guidebook section in the original discussion board on CC.com. Jon/Timmy am I simply getting old or were there guidebook correction forums when the site first started? Why not place a permanent (sticky?) highly moderated thread, that is spray free, in the appropriate regional thread. That way current info would be easily accessible and near relevant TRs.

I know it's not a mountain but this is a fun little cliff. The bottom 20' is cut off on left side. There are at least half dozen routes from 5.8 to 5.11. Some dirty routes up the back side too. Fun in the sun cragin' in the Cascades.

Ultimately it depends on the shape of the crack. Thin shallow cracks are a different beast than a hand crack or fist crack. If anyone does try the shelf bracket trick - don't buy a long one or it will just bend!

The Bosch is a 24v unit. It is very cheap to buy two 12v batteries and wire them in series and greatly improve the performance of the Bulldog. These batteries last a season and for the price work pretty well.