DCramer

Left hand problem uses feet for rocks; the others do not.

Between the cracks - rocks are in for feet. Start the traverse w/ a layback off the right side. No rocks for feet. Two problems combined.

No rocks for feet

Left side problem is my favorite on this side. Rocks ok for feet but not the edge. Ape Index - Lowest rock is the only one allowed for your feet. Seam at roof is in. Much harder without it.

Erik - I think she must mean you!

Serious testing is in order! This weekend at Index! Erik you're in charge. Make sure Timl and RumR guys go too!

That's how I'd like 'em. I just haven't met one strong enough!

I think if you are really cleaning that triangle part would not last long.

Allison, I is that a finger like thing with a 90 degree bend ? If so they work great in shallow cracks and seams and for digging into really hard dirt.

Make sure the shelf support is not too long or it won't work well.

Checking before I leave for the weekend and I see this post! Ice Axes work great. The old MSR metal ones are the trick. They are hard to find now. Here is the secret: Materials: Wooden handle Cheap shelf support 2 bolts w/ nuts Wild colored paint Tools: Hand saw Drill Put it together to look like this! shhh ssssssssssssssssssssss shbhsssssssssssssssssss shhhssss shbhsss .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh .hhh H=handle B=bolt S=Shelf Support .=spacer Then use a pipe brush to clean it the grime. Pliers are handy to pull out stubborn roots and a folding pruning saw is also useful to cut through dirt and roots. Need a place to practice near Seattle? Last year I cleaned out Pressure Drop. It was incredibly dirty. A great TR and could use some more cleaning as can the two routes to the right which are great TRs and only ok leads

Yellow Bird up on Midnight is a fun route. So is the pitch under the roof on Saints/Rainshadow.

Jake I think that with the exception of the first 40' the route stays pretty dry. Not only does it look spicy; it is spicy! I haven't climbed it but several people have told me tales of falls with pro "zippering." The flakes are truly expando. Don't think I will be on it any time soon. It is the most Yosemite looking aid route at the Town Walls and I have always thought that the route is very photogenic. So If anyone wants their picture taken, I'd be happy to rap of and snap some shots while they were on it. For those looking for an FA Directly below the first belay on the Goddess Kring route is a crack similar to City Park. As with City Park the crack doesn't reach the ground so so tricks and a drill will probably be needed to reach it. It does get a bit funky near the belay actually disappearing in places, but for the most part it is a pretty nice crack. Darryl

This wil probably confuse you more than if I said nothing. The route Lambone refers to is the right variation start to NAO. The right variation and the Narrow Arrow Direct share the same start. Look for a pair of left and right facing corners that form a stem and end at a small ledge. There should be a new bolt in this section. From the ledge, the right variation moves up and a bit left to a thin crack which leads to the right side of a small roof. The crux as I remember is moving under this roof. The Direct continues straight up a left facing corner and ultimately the top of the NA itself. (Look for a couple of bolts, this pitch is now free) The left variation start to NAO starts up a left facing corner and then climbs directly up to the left side of the small roof mentioned in the right start description. (There are numerous bolts on this pitch) This pitch is 11b/c and if dry is a super fun free climb but as an aid lead is not half as fun as the right start. The first pitch ends at a small ledge about 15’ below the “overhang.” The second pitch ends shortly above the overhang. The anchor may be bad. The roof is 12b or C2. I am about 90% sure the 15’ below the overhang has been freed as well.

Lambone’s recommendation of the Narrow Arrow Overhang is just about the perfect reply. All the routes to from NAO to Thin Fingers can be fairly fry, but the NAO is dry for the belayer, if he/she is right against the wall. Don’t forget the Zipper roof; however, the free climbing to it may be wet. Clay (a free route) would probably be mostly dry as well. Arch Enemy on Rattletale would also be dry. High winds could change everything.

Speaking of clean climbing, has anyone climbed the new variation on Town Crier? It climbs a direct line from near the top of the chimney pitch to the top of the next pitch. C2? Someone really ought to try the second pitch of Green Drag-On free. The distance between unabashed hanging and really freeing something is pretty close infinite but I think the pitch might go free. When I signed back on I reread the initial post and it appears that they were climbing the first pitch and placed a couple pins near the top. In good conditions the climbing there is pretty trivial, but in icy conditions it would be scary. I am not sure that clean pro would be very easily had in this section in any condition; in summer you would just run it out without comment. The consequences of any piton scarring in this section is close to nonexistent. (In terms of effecting future climbing) I am by no means advocating nailing clean climbs, just throwing my two cents into the mix. Darryl

Checking this thread and I feel the urge to clarify a few things Bronco said. Green Drag-On Rating C2/3 I write that the second pitch might be the only one to need a piton or two. Last time I was on this pitch I was trying to free it(done w/ hangs) and a pin was mighty nice. I left one. Town Crier Rating C2/3 I say that most want to bring a couple of pins just in case. "Just in case" means in case someone has removed all the fixed pro. I stated that the routes were considered clean climbs and suggested (in the introduction) that if a person feels that a hammered piece is needed, perhaps due to removed fixed pro, then they should leave any pins fixed. This idea of a "hammerless second" seems like a good compromise in the whole debate. Perhaps subject to potential abuse but maybe not. Darryl

I sent Jon a PM asking if he could imagine a more appropriate and easily set up structure for an online UW Rock guide. I agree that those UW Rock pictures are annoying when they pop up. Check out the original thread someone just posted another route using one of those annoying pics!

I think that B&W looks better but it could always be the unsharp filter. Nice route, not sure if I know it. Darryl

The climbing at the Bat Caves is extremely fingery and the rock is brittle. I'd say it is worth at least a trip or two. Most of the routes are pretty hard.(5.12) One route on the left side looks pretty amazing but is marred by a dirty first pitch. I can attest the hike is not so bad as I did it with two left shoes on! The obvious crack pitch that has been mentioned look wild. Anyone have any experiences they want to share with us about it?

I added some more pics of the UW Rock. I think an online guide would be a fun thing to have. The original files are huge but I tried to reduce their size - maybe not the best way. Would B&W be better than color? Pope, you're the first one I have heard suggest Smoot's UW Rock guide was prepared without much thought and energy. For years Smoot was a regular at the rock - literally obsessed with the place. I thought his book was pretty good and original and that the routes were clearly shown. The ratings are a bit odd but they are still pretty good at showing relative difficulty. I would agree that the Hopkins/Wolfe guide is pretty groovy too! If anyone is having problems sussing out new problems both books would show some new gems staring them in the face.

Way back in the early(?) 80's Smoot wrote a really good guide to the UW rock. It is no longer in print. He does sell an abridged version on his website. I know several guides have been available in more recent years but since Smoot is still around and likes publishing things, I imagine several emails would encourage him to reprint his version. One of the UW rock's charms is discovering the problems for yourself but I thought I'd throw the Smoot book into the mix. The possibilty of a CC.com based guide seems like a fun project as well.

I agree with Erik about the quarry being history but there have been several attempts to snag some rock from the talus field in the past 20 years. Perhaps the best thing climbers can do to ensure access is to be civil and not to drive up the access road (crossing the RR tracks) to the quarry. My experiences with the Parks Dept. lead me to believe that they are good guys and are supportive of climbing at Index. Darryl

About 8 years ago I spent several hours with a Snohomish county cartographer in trying to figure out ownership issues. The cartographer was excited because I didn't want to talk about some boring subdivision issue. Ownership for some parcels goes back to mining claims. Without a formal survey to determine the exact location of each crag only general guesses can be made regarding property boundaries. I am not aware of any transactions that have changed the situation.

The last I heard: Four main ownership groups 1 Individuals 2 Rail company 3 USFS 4 State Parks Lower Lump Mostly individuals maybe a bit of Rail ownership Lower Wall Individuals until the tunnel then State Parks Upper Wall Extreme left portion individuals All the rest State Parks Lookout Point State Parks Gun Club USFS Parking lot Rail Company