DCramer

Jon - I just left a voice mail with Andy. I told him about a possible get together and asked what his availability/interest was over the few weeks. I ran into the same problem with the Access Fund and earmarking funds for local use. The good thing is the Access Fund encourages the formation of local groups. David Gunstone and I set a NFP corp to act as a funds holding place. He died in May and the corp is really doing nothing right now. After his death several people have expressed an interest in trying to get a local group together. If we could get a real group together I think the payback would be huge. You are right about this site being a great conduit for access info and local organization. The potential is mind-boggling.

Well that's two! I'll get in touch with Andy and find out his schedule. Everyone - Let me know if you are interested. Glasscow - I uderstand and agree with much of what you are saying. If people seem interested and a date I set I hope you can come. National level action is only one-half of the equation. We need more local activity if only to become more aware of potential problems.

A month or two ago I spoke with Andy Fitz. He asked me if I knew anyone interested in getting involved in access issues. I pointed across the room at Mattp! About 18 months ago a half-dozen or so climbers from cc.com got together to talk about access issues. After seeing the discussion on cc.com get hijacked we pretty much left the site alone. We got caught up our own thing which was mainly to replace bolts and a little trail maintenance. I think Glasscow is on the right track in trying to get something together now. I would be happy to organize a get together either a BBQ or an evening at the pub if anyone would be interested. I bet Andy would be happy to join us. Anyone interested? Darryl

With an average pitch length of 100’ that’s a 700 foot cliff. Upper Wall is only a bit over 500’. It would be great if it were true and the Monroe guys were developing up a storm! One of the climbing Gregs told me about a new cliff out by Skykomish maybe it’s the same one. Did he tell you how long the approach is? There are some areas near Zekes that look pretty big. If you are driving east making that big turn near boulder drop and you look up, you'll see a big cliff up the hillside to the south of the highway. It's about a 30 minute flat hike to the base on roads. The cliff is pretty darn big but also lacking in good lines. It isn't granite either.

Here is a new Index route: Right now the first pitch of this route has not been cleaned completely, but I thought I’d post it here anyway since I think the FA party won’t be going back to it very soon. Bring extra 2.5” to 4” pieces Getting there: Go to the right side of Earwax Wall and climb up and slightly right to a tree. The route: P1 Traverse up and right to another tree at the base of a crack. There are two loose but fairly stable blocks on this section. Climb the crack to a ledge. Move right, then scramble up to an anchor. (5.8/9?) This pitch needs additional cleaning. 100' P2 Just left of the anchor are two cracks. Start up the right hand crack and move left when the going gets difficult. (I’ve seen this done several ways) The pro is a bit funky here. Follow the crack for 100’+ to a ledge. First 20’ are still a bit scruffy. (5.10a?) 140' P3 Easy climbing up a gully ends with an awkward move to the right. A couple of easy moves leads to the top. (mid-fifth class) 50' Getting down: Rap or walk off. The Back Road route climbs the first 15’ of the second pitch and then takes the obvious hand traverse to the right. It is probably not a good route to try.

A couple of scoundrels no doubt! I think the bolted line climbs an arete for almost a rope length and ends on a sloping ledge. Every time I have talked to one of those two guys for the past year he has been raving about it and others in the area. I haven’t been there in a few years but the route should be easy to find. Are you sure they finished it? Cman do you do a lot of bouldering?

I was at the Upper Wall last Sunday for the second week in a row. The amount of new garbage that had been thrown off the wall during the seven days between my visits was appalling. We hauled out a garbage bag and stuffed our packs with debris. Even worse than garbage was the number of large rocks being thrown off the top. It seems as though instead of being an occasional hazard recreational rock/trash throwing is becoming commonplace. I would like to see the WA Parks post some signs at the top of the Upper Wall and at a point or two along the access roads leading to the top. Hopefully the people throwing these items are simply unaware that there are climbers below and will stop throwing things once they become aware of how reckless their actions are. The signs might also help to reduce the volume of trash thrown off. There are more than enough dollars remaining from various fundraisers to offer to pay for the signs. The danger zone is for the most part between the Earwax and Dana's Arch routes. Any other thoughts?

Erik - Roger's Corner is to the right of the ice. The ice is on the Black Wall just left of Leo Chimney. You can see Marginal Karma and B o C on the corner wall. It look like GNS has changed a bit since the picture was taken. OW - Nice pic. Thanks for posting it. Believe it or not the Pickett photos were stored in a garage for years until they were donated to the UW. It is remarkable that they held up so well. Just a few years ago the collection was not even properly indexed it is great to find out that now it is an online resource. D

The State taking an interest in the Town Walls is definitely a mixed bag in terms of possible outcomes. I for one would hate to see it over-developed and/or regulated. There are at least two good outcomes possible. Climbers should be pressing for both. The first is toilets near the Lower Wall. The second, restriction of 4WD and motorcycle access to the top of the Upper Wall, is obvious to anyone who has walked along the base of the Upper Wall. Yesterday the usual barrages of beer cans were descending but joining them were some rather large rocks. Several of them measuring in at a couple feet across. Besides creating an eyesore these activities are incredibly dangerous. The most dangerous section of the UW is between Earwax and Dana’s Arch. Be careful if you are walking along the base of the Upper Wall. Darryl

In the late 70’s there were several of articles written by the climbers bringing alpine style ascents to the big mountains. In at least some of these simulclimbing was advocated. I remember at the time being quite interested in trying it out but soon discovered that my interest in climbing really did not involve mountains so much as cliffs.

Erik – I can think of seven without giving it much effort. The Big Tree route at Three O’Clock Rock also has some good jamming. What I am finding surprising is how few stand out HCs I can think of in the NW. I keep thinking of TCs. It is also surprising is how people view the same climb differently. For example, Moonshine dihedral in this thread or Sunshine Dihedral in another crack thread. I do not remember Sunshine as being much of a crack climb at all. Two climbs 100’ feet apart and four different memories. EDIT: The Great Northern Slab handcrack! (5.6)

Hmm I wanna add Thin Fingers to the list but can’t convince myself that it qualifies. Perspective at Squamish. Steep well protected .11a. Does anyone really climb the Right Side as a hand crack? Pumpline (.11b) in the Icicle is thin at the bottom but thin hands at the crux. Fun climb and easy to set a TR on. ***Warning:Short TRs ahead*** Clash City (.11) and Train In Vain (.12) at Snoqualmie Pass. Anne with an E (.11+) is a five minute walk up the hill and is a great flared hand (maybe finger crack) Since Smith is in why hasn’t anyone mentioned Shoes (.11b)?

Hmm I wonder where you were? Did you see any bolts? Deadbocats and Antlers start off with a flake and then Bobcats moves right (face moves, maple tree at base?) to a left trending wide crack. I imagine they would both be a bit grimy. If I remember correctly the belay is off a tree. Since you were on rap I would imagine you would have seen any bolts. Did the pin look like it was once painted blue? The knobby wall is short 20' maybe and lots of knobs. You must have been very close to it. Next time I am out there I'll try to remember to walk over and see what better directions would be. The variation start is pretty bouldery but the first moves s/b the hardest.

What's the verdict on the recomendations?

I am not sure but I would be inclined to believe that a 60m rope would work probably even a 50m would work as well. The last pitch is very short. It is basically a 15’ OW/Squeeze. If your goal is to TR the route, I would think that the best thing would be to belay from the top. The belay ledge on top of the NA is spacious and flat and would be much more comfy than any other belay ledge on the route. After TRing the top two pitches I would rap and TR the second. This pitch would best be belayed at its base (ie top of the first) and is 10a. One caveat: The belay bolts at the top of the NA may be terrible. I am pretty sure they have been replaced but if not I would be reluctant to use them. If they are not in good condition setting up a backup is possible and it is relatively easy to climb off the back of the NA and climb over to the East Ledges.

By far the best 5.10 TR at Index would be the top two pitches of Narrow Arrow Direct. The top of the Narrow Arrow can be reached by any of several variations. (From 5.7-5.11) TR the top two pitches as one. The "TR" pitch will start off as a thin crack and turn into a hand crack thru a bulge. It then widens into a nice chimney with a rest just before the squeeze/OW finish. Multiple 5.10 cruxes. Great climbing! If you don't mind a bit of cleaning the Garden Wall has some nice 5.10 TRs. The routes on Hag Crag can be easily TR'd. Belay at the base of the chimney on the Lizard route and TR On the Virgin then climb the chimney and then move right and TR Walkin' the Dog and Sonic Reducer (Pulling up on the bottom bolts reduces the climb to 5.10.) Turning the bulge/roof is really fun. If you are over on the East Ledges don't forget about Walter B. The crux is a boulder type face move (5.11) but it ends on a ledge and from there the route is an athletic corner (5.10) Just lower to the bottom of the corner. Much better than Quarry Crack. In the Country it is easy to TR the first pitch of Heart of the Country. It is also easy to walk arouind the east side and set up TRs on Dead Bobcats and Lizard Antlers. Right to the right is a knob covered TR wall.

As I remember Hips and Valleys also has a short chimney section and it is easy to set a TR on it. Don't forget Roller Coaster Chimney, Black Widow or even Easter OH on Midnight.

the becky guide and back of the new guide, "Sky Valley Rock" by Darryl Cramer I believe it has had a second ascent and there might even be a new route or two on the Buttress as well.

Ya you say that as if good footwork and a pleasant personality mattered! He had to move to balance out EW and NY!

Hey I am an old guy (although not as old as Cairns, if he is who I think he is) so being so last year isn't so bad! D

I take it you won't argue with Left Side being over rated! My point about EW was that he left Squamish! I just looked up that bit about the .14 and damn you're right. I was confused because the route next to it (14b/c)in the guidebook was called " a contender for Canada's hardest route" and it was put up by a WA climber!

You know you got me thinking about how good some of the aid routes at Squamish are. Those expanding flakes are amazing. Are the aid routes on the Grand very popular these days? (excluding Uncle Bens)

huh? first 12 was put up by visiting Australian Nic Peart (left side of the split in 75) and rated 5.10+ Squamish ratings seem to move like the stock averages! Left side .12! Amazing. Who’d have thunk it! I was thinking of Sentry Box!

SQUAMISH: bouldering. INDEX: no bouldering worth speaking of There is excellent bouldering in the area including several Columbia boulder size rocks. SQUAMISH: sport routes of all grades 5.6-5.14c INDEX: only 5.11 and up basically; no 5.14s True. Wasn’t the first 5.14 in BC put up by a Wa climber? SQUAMISH: over 1,000 pitches of TRAD from 1 to 23 pitches in length including WORLD CLASSICS. INDEX: a few hundred pitches of trad, multipitch is only 5-6 p. long unless you count Mt Baring. heavily concentrated in the 5.10 to 5.12 range I bet there are over 1,000 pitches at Index. Didn’t the guy who put up the first .11 in Squamish (which turned out to be a 12) move to the states? Please name the world classics! SQUAMISH: clean on popular routes. INDEX: vegetated/mossy on even semipopular routes Most routes are clean SQUAMISH: a town to hang out in INDEX: a quarry converted to redneckville to camp out in It was a sad day when the Index Tavern closed SQUAMISH REST DAY ACTIVITY: windsurf, mountainbike, hike, smoke good Canadian weed. INDEX REST DAY ACTIVITY: Reptile Zoo. Reptile Man will be at my house on 8/4 come on over! SQUAMISH AID: about 2 dozen routes from 1-12 pitches and C1 to A4+. INDEX AID: mostly single pitch, dirty, or aiding free routes Lots of aid routes at Index most several pitches long but (even better) still lots of easily accessible FAs to be done! Wasn’t the Black Dyke climbed by guys from WA? Only a few OWs at Index too. Wasn't the hardest OW at Squamish done by WA climbers? DC

Ah yes Ehmic That's tourists find 3rd world countries so attractive.