DCramer

What about: Iron Horse (p1 to ringing flake) or 10%(p1) or Narrow Arrow Overhang (right variation)

Offwhite: When will you learn, if a route is of sufficient quality it doesn’t have to be longer than a pitch: 1 - Bobcat Cringe 2 - Japanese Gardens p1 3 - Technicians of the Sacred p1 4 - Godzilla p1 5 - Heart’s Desire

Me thinks you mean Kramar not Cramer (or even Crammer)

I would hope that the WCC does advocate for climbers! I for one would like to see Peshastin Pinnacles open during the winter months. As I said before I do not think that there is a hidden agenda to change bolting restrictions in the wilderness. Spray on!

I a have been somewhat involved with the WCC and can honestly report that as far as I have seen the WCC has no official position regarding “Wilderness Bolting.” The WCC is still forming and encouraging more climber participation so that it can find its voice. Before the first meeting I attended Matt encouraged me to moderate the presentation of my own views and in hind site I am glad I followed his advice. At the meeting I did state that intensive development such as that at Exit 38 is not a pattern I would like to see presented a “model” or typical way for climbers to develop crags. I wasn’t called an “anti-bolter” and I have had several subsequent discussions with people considered “pro-bolters” about the issue all in a friendly and constructive manner. The WCC isn’t Matt and although I believe he is an effective representative for Washington climbers I hope he becomes less and less the face of the WCC – not because his involvement lessens but because others increase their involvement. Several months ago when the WCC first appeared there were two CC.com posters who gave Matt shit for not “representing them.” My personal counsel to Matt was to ignore the internet sprayers. His explicit rejoinder was that he wanted them involved. He tried to engage them and encouraged them to participate. To date neither of them have attended any meetings or signed up on the website. The WCC is simply what we make it. As far as wilderness bolting I can’t imagine any way that the WCC would ever support anything other than climber adherence to the existing rules, regulations and policies that any land manger creates.

I would only add that I am not acting in any "official" capacity as a member of the WCC but rather responding to ideas brought up in another thread and trying to get a discussion going.

Now that I have had time to think about it, I thought I’d throw my 2 cents down. The WCC represents a great opportunity to form an organization with a built in legitimacy derived from the Access Fund. This does matter! From my interactions with State Parks Department officials Andy has done an outstanding job in developing cordial and respectful relationships. Sometime ago I contacted the State Parks and offered to (subject to price) pay for portable toilet rentals at the Index Town Walls. The offer was declined due to ownership/access issues but while replying they suggested I work with Andy and the Access Fund. One the surface this was a clear endorsement for the AF; however, the subtext was clear – it is much easier for land managers to deal with one group. New developments aside the WCC will be a good opportunity to meet our responsibilities in helping to maintain what we have already created. At the cragster level I am thinking of trash removal, maintaining crag trails and anchor replacement. Alpinists who never go to a crag may want to help out with general trial maintenance and other things. Local fundraisers can be held and the proceeds use for various purposes. My point is not to list every possible good thing but that there are lots of good things to be done and I would rather show up for a trail project as a WCC volunteer than a WTA volunteer. I ran a few “google” searches and found local associations for a wide variety of outdoor sports – mountain biking, snowmobilers, kayaking cross country skiing, dirt biking. It seems as if Washington climbers are a bit behind. In the “Urgent Mt Garfield” thread there seemed to be a fear that the WCC was a secret cabal. This left me wondered how could an organization be developed without at some point being the direct creation of a small group of individuals? I don’t think it is possible. The real question is once a seed group has been gathered how can involvement by the climbing community be increased/encouraged? Any ideas? I think that this very access forum can be of great help in building one. Mattp got a lot of grief last week but how many who were angry over being excluded sent him their email asking to be on the WCC mailing list? DC

It was simply a tragic accident. It is no different than most other climbing accidents. We are all human. There is no big secret to be learned and what can be learned is available upon inspection and requires no detailed analysis. Be careful. I would (and have) without reservation rope up with any of the climbers involved in the accident. DC

The DNR has nothing to do directly with Mt Garfield.

From AF's first post. There is going to be a meeting today (Thursday, 5/26/04) involving the newly formed "Washington Climbers Coalition" (WCC), the Access Fund, the National Forest Service, and the Alpine Lakes Protection Society regarding the climbing route "Infinite Bliss" on the west peak of Mt. Garfield. I believe that the WCC was actually formed under the encouragement of the Access Fund.

Clearly there was no desire to notify the climbing public at large that such a meeting was taking place. If there was an interest in doing so this website would be an obvious place to post such a message. Rather, it would appear, a small group of individuals chose to limit knowledge that such a meeting was taking place and, with all probability, tried to pass of their objectives and opinions as the of climbers as a whole. Thats pretty friggin weak! Some of the people who apparently attended are pretty adament about insisting that all climbers get more involved with land management. Yet when the oppurtunity arised they kept mum in an attempt to control the dialog. Thats actually really friggin weak! When first informed of the meeting I too was irritated that it appeared as if discussions over serious issues had been ongoing. After going to the meeting it became clear to me that that was not the case. The meeting was a heads up to many people developing new routes across the state and the initial attempt at developing a broader coalition. Everyone agreed that greater participation was needed. Any attempt at creating a long lasting group must necessarily begin with a small group. No one claimed to speak for Washington climbers and there was no attempt to develop a climber’s position on any issue whatsoever. Virtually the entire meeting was dedicated to discussing the need for a state level climber’s group and how to get one started.

I went to the meeting last night and I do not think that there was any attempt to exclude anyone from this site. Mister E, DavidW, Das Bull, Mattp me and several other posters were there. My understanding is that today’s meeting isn’t really an appropriate forum for a large group of climbers. A small group was going to meet share concerns and go on a site visit to Mt. Garfield. Nothing is being decided at this point. As far as bolting, I find myself stuck in the middle somewhere having developed many routes across the state I want no restrictions however, over the years I have seen the term “route developer “come into use and realize that there is a lot of baggage that comes with such a designation. Long term the issues are much broader than Mt Garfield, hopefully the WCC will not only be a useful tool in working with land managers and climbing “issues” but keep the issues from appearing in the first place. DC EDIT: I did not help organize the meeting and I had a few beers so remember the above is just one man's understanding.

Jake - This route starts to the left of the one with the bolts. When are you off for the summer?

I corrected an error in the first post. Thanks for the handy PM!

I received this email yesterday - Anyway, the first pitch is dirty, which is inevitable. The rest of the route is in good shape. No dust this time. Thank you for the use of the wired brush, both of us used it on lead, mostly on the first pitch. If it is going to stay clean, it needs more ascents! Here is the route she was talking about – Climbs the largest corner system on the left [sorry this said right earlier] hand side of the Upper Wall. The second pitch is one of the longest at the Town Walls. Bring extra of the 2 1/2" to 3 1/2" sizes. Start at the tree right of Biology of Small Appliances. P1 Climb a short dirty section up and right to another tree. Climb an obvious crack up to a ledge. From there it is best to move right and then scramble up to huge ledge. (5.8) P2 Start up the right of two cracks. After about 20’ move to the left crack which is followed for 110’ to a nice ledge.(5.9/10) P3 A short (40 ft.) pitch leads to the top.(5.7/8) It has only seen a couple of ascents. Watch out for falling rocks, trash and trees walking along the base of the wall.

This is several years old. At one point Dallas had looked it over. I think the bolts are off but it may help you to get oriented. This has never had a test run so as always use at own risk. 349346-new erie.pdf

Dru will of course forward any copies of Private Dancer to me. While I was looking for old photos of Index I was at the house of an avid guidebook collector when he brought me into a spare room opened a safe an we spent a few hours looking at old guides and letters from some legends in American climbing describing FAs they had done or trying to sell their ideas for the coming season. It got me thinking how cheap phone calls, faxes, website and email having replaced traditional letters have in some ways destroyed history.

I haven't been to the crag in your picture but have put some routes up on nearby crags. The logging sure has improved access.

I hope so!

Once I left my pack at Index and it was on my front porch when made it home later that evening. I did not know the guy who found it but he looked my address up in the phone book and found out where I lived!

Name your price!

Forwarded. The email was just a suggestion that this ongoing saga would be worth an article.

Newstips - This is a great subject. Read this thread: here Also, did you receive the email I sent you regarding this matter on 4/23? Darryl

Someone ran off with my copy. Anyone willing to part with theirs? PM me if you are! DC

The Pressure Drop Rock and the Coffee Achievers Cliff both have fun TRs. The TRs can be set up easily with tree anchors. Most of the routes would take a bit of scrubbing before being really clean but only a little to make them possible. They are a fun way to finish off the day after climbing an Upper Wall route. Pressure Drop Routes worth spending time on: Pressure Drop .11a - Great finger jams! Probably clean enough right now. Blaim it On Cain .11c - Probably wet this time of year. Errol Flynn...12 - Technical lieback jamming. Crux section easily cleaned. The top lower angle section will be difficult to clean but you can just lower off. Coffee Achievers Cliff routes - Universal language .11+ - Boulder sequence at the start; stemming up higher. Easy clean job. Let's Go Crazy .11c Thin jams and face climbing up unique rock. Stays hard until the top. OK I'll shut up now. DC