DCramer

OK I am on a roll. Consider the slab with the route Bolt Run at Donner Pass. Closely spaced several routes squeezed in. Seems like a sport route crag to me. Except the routes were made in the ‘70s. Think people only now started flocking to routes with give away ratings? Think of Maxine’s Wall (How many do more than the first pitch?) What about Peruvian Flake?

One more example: Jim Erickson developed an incredible theory of route tainting in while climbing around Boulder. He completely abandoned this system and became a dogger while trying to free Half Dome.

Did this thread die? This has been one of the better CC.com threads on this subject and although shy and retiring by nature I feel the need to spray contribute to it. Two things have really changed in climbing: 1) the number of climbers has increased greatly and 2) people have become more honest over the years. The stories presented here describing climbing in the ‘70s seem to be describing another world than the one I experienced. Chipping, pre-inspection, dogging, rap bolting all took place in the ‘70s. It was in no way the golden age of the “Zen Master”. Rather than rely on my admittedly faulty memory I will give some specific and verifiable examples along with a personal recollection or two. In ‘77 Tom Higgins wrote an article for Mountain Magazine which was published in the spring of ’78. I have a fondness for this issue because of Higgins’ article – it was the first guide I used in the Meadows. One of the main subjects of the article is ethics. He considers four practices he disliked: a) pre-protecting b) previewing/practicing c) doctoring (primarily chipping) and d) seiging (fixed ropes, dogging and pulling on rope to high point). Here is a direct quote from the article: The articled included a chart of selected Meadows routes with a notation on style. Vern Cleavenger, Dale Bard, Rick Accomazo, Bruce Morris, R Breedove, Jim Bridwell to name some of the big names all preprotected routes. Most rehearsed and seiged certain routes as well. Many routes had bolt ladders place with the intent to free them latter. Both Death Crack and Blues Riff were preprotected. The climbers in this list are all pretty much superstars and have climbed tremendous routes often in a very bold style. My friend Greg and I still talk about when we get good that we want to try some of Accomazo’s So Cal routes. Down in the Valley itself Wheat Thin was preprotected with rap placed bolts and Elephant’s Eliminate had a bong placed on rappel. Geek Towers and Outer Limits were both chipped. I grew up in the Bay Area and Jim Collins was going to school at Stanford. I remember seeing him boulder a bit. His climbing style certainly was not against falling and trying again. Neither was Tony Yaniro’s. Both developed very intense gym routines years before commercial gyms were around. Both were ridiculed by the existing elites when they first burst on the scene. I almost forgot Hudon (former cc.com poster) and Jones. They wrote an entire series of articles on their hangdogging experiences. Due to limitations in equipment hangdogging was often nearly impossible. Jardine with the help of Friends made it an art form. But in the days of hexes you simply couldn’t hang anywhere you wanted. I have chickened out from several wide cracks that I would have aided if I could have. One reason people progressed more slowly thru the grades was that they often had to go for it and if they calculated wrong the consequences could be terrible. I am remembering a harrowing experience on Peter Left (base of El Cap) right now. I am sure cams have changed this route dramatically. Indian Creek was distinctly different without cams. One of my first multi-pitch routes was a 5.6 on the East Wall at Lover’s Leap. I can remember quite clearly watching the only other parties at the cliff that day. One was on The Line (5.9) the other on Eyore’s Ecstasy (5.9+) both took repeated falls and were hang dogging. The 1975 guide to the Leap included a short “sermon” by Royal Robbins. In it he expressed a desire that the Leap remain bolt free. The locals of the time were really into free soloing and supported the “bold way”. Oddly a series of bolts appeared. No one knew who placed them but it was known that the offending party couldn’t free the line. Of course the locals could! Higgins relates a similar story in his Meadows article. The 70’s simply were not as presented earlier in this thread. The real world is complex; more of a rainbow than a single color. Any problems with modern climbing do not need to be addressed by some reference to the past and certainly not to an inaccurate presentation of the past. That said in some way we are all creatures of our youth. Last time I climbed at the Leap I was saddened to see the number of bolt lines that now existed. The same goes for the Cookie cliff in Yosemite.

Can anyone comment regarding how the "thrown object" hazard is this year compared to prior years?

I wonder what made you think of this? Maybe it's already been found...

I believe that a number of people have climbed there over the years. I climbed there a bit in the 80s. This was before Bryan’s guide and we just assumed after finding a few bolts that others had been there before us. Bryan certainly wasn’t active there at the time. The rock is highly variable ranging from solid to kitty litter. Many of the ledges are flat out impossible to be on without dropping a lot of stones. From the left shoulder if you walk (North?) along the base Bryan put up a couple good routes – well a route and variation. I believe these were started and abandoned by some earlier climbers. The rock is not so bad although time may have loosened some holds. There are some fun Washington hueco holds and the routes are pretty steep. Hard to remember how hard; I am thinking solid 5.10. I remember these routes as the best I climbed in the area. The area is pretty popular with hikers. I’d be pretty low key if I was new routing. That said I am sure some nice climbs could be found.

Go chop them all! With regard to pins vs. bolts, over time I have come to the conclusion that it is often best to use a bolt over a pin. One reason is constant theft. For example, Bat Skins one of the best stemming problems in the state is no longer protected because someone stole the knifeblades. The second is pins age very quickly at Index. I have pulled many pins out with my hand at Index -pins that I have placed and considered bomber at the time I placed them. The bottom of Deal has a bolt that was not on the FA (which was ground up by the way) there is a 5.10 move which if you fell and the pin pulled you'd hit the deck. I haven’t climbed this route since the pin was turned into a bolt but I think that a bolt is preferred. With regard to the route you mention there is a further complication: I am not sure that “former pin crack” is the proper term. Beckey’s guide was filled with significant errors and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was never climbed until now. Adding fixed gear to old aid climbs at Index has been done since the late 70s. So it is undeniably an Index tradition. This has been primarily with dirty unpopular routes. Non-dirty aid routes were usually left without adding gear. I added bolts to two aid climbs. One was not to free it but rather to protect the rock from further damage. (Dana’s Arch) Definitely not successful there. The other was I added a few bolts to the Shield pitch on 10%. In the late 80s I tried leading the Diamond and figured with a bolt or two it would easily go (and be a great climb) but frankly wasn’t into adding bolts. Some others worked on trying to free some other aid routes and there was a bit of discussion about what was acceptable. (eg the bolts on Zipper roof) Consensus seemed to be that at some point the big aid routes should be left alone. This was mostly because some were willing to enhance the rock. The way I see it two of the greatest free projects in WA are the initial section of 10% and the Waterway route. It would be a shame to see these bolted into sport routes. By the way I replaced all the bolts on the Waterway with 12mm stainless last year. I forgot my fork so most of the bolts remain. (Lazy?) In some cases there were 6 bolts per anchor. The Lower Wall has always had a bunch of short pitches with bolt anchors (ie Iron Horse, 10%, JG, Misc aid routes, Narrow Arrow) there is nothing new about this. I think it is the result of the cliffs history as an aid training crag. What is new is that some new fixed pieces have been appearing. Virtually every route I was involved with using the ground up method at Index has had new fixed pieces appear. This is not true of routes that have been cleaned top down. Index has a wide variety of routes - most people climb the same old shit. Get out explore. Even exploring the Lower Wall would yield a bunch of great routes.

Is this really abandoned? If so, it seems like these bolts (2?) are far more of an eyesore than an extra anchor added 40m up the wall.

Under that pile of tat is a great free route. It was originally lead free with a fp above where the tat is now. This pin has been stolen. Subsequently another person came and added some bolts (where the tat is now) and claimed the FFA to that point. I have often thought of going back and cleaning it up. One of the finest leads on the Lower Wall. If you clean it up make sure it's set up for free climbing. [edit]If I understand/remember correctly the new variation is not a squeeze job. I thought about doing it before and once hanging out with Jim Yoder he pointed it out without my prompting. A direct start to Tadpole has several advantages 1) it might encourage people to climb it 2) enables people to approach easily without having to rap or do the traverse which has the potential for dropped rocks. [edit 2]Soul Reaper are you an Opeth fan?

I would review your source again...

I can remember when we could clean all day at the Lower wall and never see another climber - this on a sunny weekend. Times have changed. The number of climbers has increased to where it is impossible not to impact other through our very presence, but if not mid-week then when? Is a day when you can't climb a route because someone is cleaning really that bad? For the last 15 years or so I have pretty much stopped climbing much at the Lower Wall because there were too many people for my taste. Still I was excited a couple years ago when I noticed that the third pitch of City Park was cleaned. I kept expecting someone to report it here but amazingly no one even noticed it - or if they did they remained silent. Cleaning such a large amount of dirt in the winter would have had a much more deleterious impact on the surrounding routes. I do not know the specifics of this incident but it sounds like winter would have been the absolutely worst time for this activity. Maybe now isn’t the right time either, but the alternative suggested in this thread is better only in theory.

I think you are speaking of the drawing on page 113. In the attached photo the 5.8 is the scruffy corner on the left. The red is a route that climbs up, traverses right and then up the face. The blue is a crack that to my knowledge has not yet be freed.

For what it's worth rockfall at the Town Walls is always worse during very dry periods. I always assumed that this was due more to the fact that "dry" is a change from the normal and that really anytime there is a big change in conditions the rokfall danger increases.

I happened to be the guy who called the “hero” on Sunday night. The Parks Dept called me around 9pm and asked for help in rescuing the dog. The Parks epartment did not feel it had the technical skills needed to perform the rescue. After being turned down by other groups they called me. I was not able to get out in the morning but said I would make a few calls. The ranger gave me his home phone number and when I asked how late I could call he responded, “as late as you want.” The Parks Department clearly was trying their best to get the dog rescued safely. I say thumbs up to the hero and thumbs up the Parks guys!

As usual Index is ahead of the curve! Sky Valley Mead

If someone was ambitious and has a chainsaw there are two trees (c. 15” diameter) across the Upper Wall trail that could be cut.

It's the side window of a canopy. The other side is just out of the frame. A piece of the canopy wall is in the Lower Wall parking lot. If you look closely you can see that the base of the dead tree near the top of the picture has been cut with a saw. The tree was cut and then thrown from the top of the wall. It is possible to drive almost to the top of the Upper Wall with the right rig.

The State Parks guys were working yesterday to clear brush along the RR tracks. They may be there again today. Here is a picture taken yesterday at "ground zero" at the base of the upper Wall - Directly above (well 300' above) the trash is this great knob pitch -

Bump!

INDEX WORK PARTY 9:30AM Saturday April 30,2005 (Meet at the Lower Wall parking area) Come help maintain our park! Trail maintenance, trash removal and brush clearing are planned. The projects are a combination of climber and Parks Department generated ideas. The Parks Department will be hauling away any trash collected and will be able to provide a limited numbers of tools For more information/comments go to: washingtonclimbers.org

I hate to point out the obvious but perhaps this is God's way of saying climb at Index!

Sloe Children was originally rated 5.10c. Before small cams and sticky shoes the final corner provided more of a kick. Check out the third pitch of JG. It is similar to SC but a bit harder - maybe .11-

I am involved with the WCC although I have been out of the loop somewhat. I know that sometime ago there was a problem with the website - I guess that there still is one. Thanks for posting. Matt Perkins (Mattp on cc.com) has been coordinating email lists and such. Sending him a pm would probably be the best way to get in touch.

I am 99.9% sure they have been replaced. The rock is very solid - the problem was 35yo 1/4". I have had several break, so maybe I am a bit gunshy. IIRC, bigger than a #4 friend. It is almost squeeze size.

All the routes mentioned, with the exception of 10% are free routes. You might want to look at the top of Shirley p1 just to make sure there is an anchor available so that you don't have to leave a piece, if that is all you want to climb. If there isn't an anchor, it is easy to swing over to NA Direct but if you are by yourself it would be a pain. Edit: An anchor does exist.