slaphappy

Go back to being a newbie, smart guy. You know nothing.

Your assumptions about snowboarders are gay. If I snow shoed up and you dropped my line as I was takin a break cause you don't think I'm qualified to make turns to your liking, be prepared to have 2" paddle marks imbedded in your back when you're "touring" out. Fuckin holier than thou skiers. And Bobbyperu, you're a wank!

Why, when we have one of the finest early season snow packs in years, do you folks insist on squabbling over a few wet drippy unformed mountain routes. Go make some turns! and Crackbolter...

Colorado= Intermediate

Not that I have any say in the matter but.. only if he promises to stop posting pictures of Richard Simmons... YUCK!

That is obvious by your uneducated comments.

I have actually found that marking bolt placements, leaving and coming back another day, and re-checking my marks usually ends up with the best result. I sometimes regret hasty decisions.

Matt- I do agree. I guess I was making more of a comparison to 1-pitch lines, like those found at Frenchman's, bolted by hand versus a power drill. The logistics become increasingly more difficult the longer the route is. Getting to the top, rapping in, and rapping off or ascending back up can easily leave very little time for any actual work on the route. It can certainly become a HUGE effort. In this circumstance the actual drilling really doesn't take that much time, particularly if done with a power drill. Ground up on routes that are long multi-pitch endeavors may go faster but how much "cleaning" is actually done on lead? I would say the very minimal amount possible to ascend the line. This, in my opinion, is one of many reasons why the end result of a ground up effort rarely climbs as well as a top down route. It is very difficult to go back and clean a new route that has already been climbed ground up, kinda anti-climactic. In fact, I would say cleaning continuous crack systems may take the longest of all. I definately agree that 5.12 climbers "aren't qualified" to put up 5.6 routes. The end result is rarely a climb that can be safely enjoyed by a 5.6 or 5.7 leader.

On one of my cazillion trips to the Pearly Gates I sat around chuggin beers heckling all the tuff guys hanging at the same spot on Milky Way. Late in the day I watch a chick step up, name tape on the helmet and everything, and just fire it off no problem. How I loved that! Or the young hottie this fall up at Clem's try and lead Gun Rack as her first lead. She took numerous falls at the crux roof. She couldn't make the clip cause she was so short but refused to give up. Chicks do truly rock!

The Secret Dome climb would best be left as a top-rope, if it had started that way. I clipped on some wire brushes and a hand drill and just started climbing. The result is a fair climb, and the only true lead-established route there. The bolt by Carnival Crack was initially drilled on lead, but the bit I'd purchased didn't truly match the bolt size I had with me (not my fault). Because it was the only pro for the crux, and since if the bolt failed it would be really terrible, I decided to borrow a power drill and place a 1/2" bolt. A few people do establish routes on rap and do a nice job, and I've agreed with that point many times. But in general, too many rap-bolted routes turn out to be low-adventure, low challenge, unaesthetic bolt trails. If we were to agree that placing bolts should be done on the lead, and if we could get everybody on board, a crisis like what we witnessed in Vantage would never happen again. Could it not be seen from the ground that the variation at Secret Dome would be better suited as a top-rope? I do not subscribe to the idea that just because a bolted crag climb was put up on lead that it is a more "valid" route. It really only means more to the FA party. Nor from my experience (and yes, I do have some) does it produce a "better" or more aesthetic route, often times quite the contrary. I do however agree that the amount of new routes being established and those establishing them would diminish drasticly if they were only being developed on lead. Rap bolted routes with a power drill can be put up at a staggering rate. Bolting by hand on lead can be terrifying and time consuming. Ahhh consume... gotta love that Molly...

The thing on Secret Dome is...I don't know....ten years old or so. I don't really think I ruined the place, given all of the completely bolt-dependent routes already on the dome. My variation used only two bolts, and I put the bolts in on the lead which, in my way of thinking, makes them the only legitimate bolts on the dome. It is ran-out and 5.11, which adds something to the monotone of 5.10 slab climbing one finds there. I'm happy to help you chop it if you're disgusted by it, and I hope you'll help me chop a few bolts while you're at it. I didn't bolt any cracks by Carnival Crack. I put up (with Scotty Hopkins, not Dave Bale) a crack route which uses one bolt for pro, right at the face climbing crux. This move is by far the hardest on the route. Without the bolt, the fall would probably be fatal. If you didn't recognize this, you probably haven't climbed the route. I could have easily climbed through. The 5.9+ grade is something I can handle with or without a bolt, but I thought that it would be responsible to have a solid bolt on that move. Please don't spread the rumor that I put up a sport climb in Leavenworth, or that I bolted next to a crack. It just isn't true. And MattP, when I make a mistake, I'll be the first to admit it; I don't need your help. The climb by Carnival Crack completely complies with what I have so many times outlined to be the reasonable and responsible application of bolts. Those of you who think it is ridiculous to say "every bolt is a crime" are absolutely correct, and I have never said that. I have pointed out that discrete bolting can add to the climbing experience without seriously compromising the aesthetics of a cliff. THE PROBLEM IS, TOO MANY CLIMBERS JUST DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT DISCRETE BOLTING IS ALL ABOUT. Pope, I commend your effort at Secret Dome. It must have been difficult to even hang on hooks and place the bolts on lead. Although judging from your past and present opinions, wouldn't it have been better left as a top rope? It is a variation and a bit of a squeeze job. The bolt on Carnival is necessary and accurately placed. Using this as an example, can you see how a rappel placed bolt with an electric drill can be viewed as constructive? Kudos to a fairly civil debate

I've been up Rat Creek in the winter... you don't want to do it unless it's the absolute shortest way to your objective. Now coming back down it on the other hand....

Thin seam that runs through the roof? If so, nice work.

This is what concerns me... According to the UW "experts", there will be thirty semi and trailer loads a day for aprox. 5 years running out the Icicle road. I doubt it will affect access to most of the crags, except perhaps some of the road side parking, but man is it gonna add some noise and eye pollution, not to mention the annoyance of increased traffic. Is it gonna have it's own power source or will the PUD run new lines down the road? What about the water coming out of the tunnel? Will it be treated and pumped into the creek? What is the scope of road "improvements"? Most importantly (not really), will we still be able to access The Funnel since they plan on entering Cashmere from the property directly below it? I say send it to North Dakota they want the damn thing anyway and Mt. Rushmore is already an eyesore, the tunnel will fit right in.

the author's name is spelled Viktor ...

Ok, I was perhaps mis-informed about the shear strengths or not thoroughly informed, but still disagree about the removal of the wedge of a 5-piece. I have tried a similar method and was not successful. They were there for about 7 years. I have removed wedge anchors with minimal to no scarring.

lummox- what is the big deal with wedge anchors? In the past what you have stated is not accurate about the removal of each style. The tip of a 5-piece stays in the hole and sucks to drill through. Wedge are not hard to remove and the hole can then be reused or oversized and reused. 5-piece do have a better pull out strength, particularly in shitty stone, but the shear is nearly the same on a wedge and a 5-piece. I believe it is closer to 5000lbs than 7000. Are you stating facts or spew?

In case you forgot what we were pokin fun of, here: "Please chestbeat here.. This endless summer season seems finite now. Please fess up here wit the list of your biggest routes that you did this season. If this co-op master-b gets to page 2 or 3, I will post the list of my best year of climbing that I have ever had.(Bait)( Hook?)(Troll...)" This doesn't resemble a trip report. -slap

I have 350 posts in 2.5 years, Matt. It's not like I make a habbit of rippin on folks, for the most part I agree with you. Perhaps I'm a bit of a hypocrite cause I won't post anything I have done for some of the same reasons, but golly, sometimes the door is just left too wide open. -slap

Come on matt, give us a break already. If Wayne posted his list of accomplishments/top climbs and was sincere about listening to others, I for one wouldn't have taken the cheap shots. The whole "tell me yours and I might tell you mine" thing is lame. As I said, it started as spray and continued as such. By the way, where's your constructive contribution? Trip reports? -slap

Dude, it wasn't your topic it was the manner in which you stated it... we all have respect for your accomplishments, as well as a dearness to our own...

damn it! i was yer girl right up to the part about gunning up the hard shit. Oh, I'll still step up to the plate...

Oh contrare, looks can be deceiving. Snowboards don't bump worth shit. And they slideslip too easily. It aint the board, young one, it's the rider...

I'm usually wasted and out of supplies by the time I start rappeling... ahhh which brings up a fine point... I'm still searching for that perfect partner who will bring/give me some of their "stash", gun up the hard shit, go EXACTLY where I want to go, climb only what I want to climb, and preferably have a fine female figure. Any takers?

The thread was started as spray and should be promptly moved there.