slaphappy

Yes, we are painfully aware that we have to pay to climb where you get to go for free. Free? Hardly. Registration is around $50 a year per sled, not to mention trailers. Whoopee! We pay (in season) $15 every damn time we want to go - unless you buy the "volcano pass" bs. But wait - you get a Snowpark permit FREE! with your $50 registration! Trailers are a motor vehicle fee. Bitch at the DMV First of all, I have and do pay the same fee you do when I "climb" MSH as well as my $50 to use my sled, which incidently I have not and wouldn't take on MSH for my own particular reasons. Secondly if I'm paying $50 for my registration and snowpark pass, how is that free? JoshK- your comparison is weak. They are both physicaly demanding in different ways. Machines may not have a place in the designated wilderness (something which there is plenty of in this state) but they do have a place in the alpine if good judgement is used. Some of you really need to be a bit more tolerant of other user groups.

Cracked, have you ridden a mountain sled for any amount of time? Clearly not. Most 'bilers old and fat, I think not. Multipleuse is spot on about the physical demands of snowmobiling. I'm strong and in fine shape and I come home worked after a day of riding in the mountains. (There are plenty of old, fat, beer schwilling "climbers" as well) Get over yourself little man.

Yes, we are painfully aware that we have to pay to climb where you get to go for free. Free? Hardly. Registration is around $50 a year per sled, not to mention trailers. For the sake of further diminishing my popularity on this BB... I have an extremely hard time believing some of these stories. I just don't see the "hooligans" described here. I feel many of your preconceived notions regarding this user group clouds reality. As a climber, bc snowboarder, and snowmobiler, I have not noticed "oil cans", "parts" or an abundance of "beer cans". (in snowmobile areas vs. non-snowmobiling areas) There is no need to carry extra oil on any modern sled. They are all oil injected and have a reservoir that holds enough for multiple tanks of fuel. All of the high performance mountain sleds use a full synthetic oil and not much at that. (2-3 gallons per 1000 miles) An effort has been made to improve the stench, although their sucess is debatable. The only reason parts would be left behind is due to an accident (they happen) and everyone I know makes an effort to remove all traces. I can't remember ever seeing any in the places I frequent. (never ridden on Baker, that interferes with cragging season) Beer cans seem to sprout up where people go, I don't think blaming it on snowmobilers is very objective. I use my sled primarily as a tool to access the bc with my split board, but would be a liar if I said I don't go "whip shitties" a few times a season. Highmarking is a hell of a rush not dissimilar to the one achieved by bc skiing or climbing. I do see sleds in areas that they are not supposed to be in but I think ignorance is most often the reason. It is particularly difficult in the winter to determine exactly where the boundaries are, even more so in some of the less used areas and poor weather conditions. Poachers should be held accountable for their actions. I disagree with you JoshK, I do think the alpine is a fine environment for snowmobiling if good judgement is used. Snowmobiles have been a part of my life since I can remember. I will continue to use one as a tool to access the best bc snowboarding the cascades has to offer and an occasional day out high-marking with friends. I have probably the only Polaris RMK in the state with a snowboard rack mounted on the back so if you see me (doubtful) I would be happy to give you a tow or a ride up to a trailhead and share a (I pack out my cans!) Damn, I'm ready for winter again!

Weak, Dustin, very weak. (as the joke goes) As far as the climbing, we all have to start somewhere and the South Ditch is a fine starting point.

Uh, I think the jokes on you there, Dustin. I believe he meant that you were making a "climbing route" of the South Ditch and he uses it as a descent hike. You'll catch up, captain.

Sheesh BP, don't you ever climb anything other than that meidiocre choss heap?

Awesome place! I got a guide at the visitors center for $10.50 that worked well. I was there for only a few days and was only able to climb one of them. (the day after the voluntary closure) We did Soler grade II 5.9-, it was an outstanding handcrack/ layback, fairly sustained, and a full 3 star value. We camped at a free (donations accepted) camp ground just outside the park that served a great breakfast. I look forward to returning someday, it was one of those "magic" type spots for me. * be sure to sign in at the visitors center before climbing, we did not and caught a tiny bit of crap for not doing so.

Leland does have a topo although I don't have a copy. No clue what you mean about "finishing the approach as it was"

Peter, what's PRB? tsk tsk did someone start the day out right?

In that sea of mounties? I just assumed you were one of those clowns. Guess I shoulda known since you were'nt wearin a helmet while walkin thru the parking lot. ...and let's not kid anyone, I wasn't carbo loading, I was lookin to tie-one-on for the schwack up to Tumwater Tower.

Hmmm, I was enjoyin a breakfast PBR when you and company pulled into the "climber's lot" sunday AM... but I didn't leave any empties layin about. -Sure did notice A LOT of new* missing flakes on the Forest Land Boulders and one mutilated rattler (no need to kill the snakes!) * I say new but I don't boulder much and my last visit was 4-5 years ago. As Ben stated, many of these problems have history, don't pry off good shiite on established routes to make your own silly new variation, now if it pops off while climbing that's a different story...

were they full Schmidty's?

Shall I bring my Polaris RMK? I hear the snowmobiling at the hairpin is top notch!

Ratboy- were you an east coast/mid west adolecent in the early 80's growing up in a conservative suburban environment? if not, you'll never get it. I never said anything about what I went through or how awful my youth was. On the contrary, I had a supportive family, plenty of $, and good schooling, but the norms that suburban society expected from us at that time are far different from expectations here and now. How you looked acted and what you were expected to make of yourself was not really open for debate. College, good job, wife, and 2.3 kids was what was expected, anything else and you were a deviant. This is what we rebelled against; the frustrations of conformity. When people say "Punk is Dead", they are right. The music may still exist but the meaning behind it only lasted for a short period of time. I'm sure it has been replaced by something else as society has evolved.

Huh, I'm not really getting a "holier than thou" attitude outta what DooLittle is saying, are we reading the same shizzle? Perhaps he is simply relating some of his experiences from the past that helped formulate what he is today. I can relate to his experiences, as many of mine were similar. Breaking the norms of society and releasing some of the penned up aggression that was not socially acceptable in a upper-middle class suburban atmosphere was really what it was all about. My guess is that some of you who don't get it, never will cause you simply had to be there at that time. Here's to what made us what we are:

Dane- Doubting the validity of climbers accomplishments at The Coulee previous to your experiences seems rather arrogant and short sighted. I climb with a prominent Leavenworth climber who rode his bike from Portland to Frenchman's in the late 70's. He spent weeks dropping loads of acid and climbed ground up (albeit probably the easier stuff) many of the cracks on Sunshine now named and "claimed" by far more recent visitors. There is no reason to doubt the validity of his claims as I'm sure there is no reason to doubt the claims of many other early visitors. Just my thoughts... -I agree rating practice climbs is sometimes rather silly but since it is the norm, excluding holds or stemming possibilities while coming up with a consensus is absolutely ridiculous.

Western Fastners in Fremont sells both 5-piece Rawls (3/8"and1/2" in various lengths) and a slection of wedge anchors. Unlike Tacoma Screw, they have them (5-piece) in stock. They are cheaper than any climbing shop. Tip: Try to converse with the employees as little as possible, they are arrogant pricks, who know little to nothing about the needs of rock climbers. *mattp has a good point about powder coated hangers. Get the Metolius hangers, the smaller size is less visible than the gigantic Fixe thingies. Ditto on the chain anchors versus webbing; it looks like shit.

Must say, the few DRI shows I attended back in Cleveland hold some pretty fond memories for me, dat was some intense shiite! Some other highlights: 7-Seconds, Circle Jerks, Cro Mags, Pink Holes, The Cramps, Butthole Surfers, Civilian Terrorists, T.S.O.L., etc. For me and my friends it was all about breaking the stereo type of how an upper middle class suburbanite adolescent was "supposed" to look and act in the late 70's-early 80's and far less about drugs (we were straight edge at the time) abuse and all around hatred. Damn I miss some of those times!

Where is "Bob's Boulder"? Do you mean perhaps Bruce's Boulder? or B.O.B. wall? And yes, the "aspirants" were everywhere!

What kinda hanger goes on a 3/4" bolt?

Devil's Tower

Edward's Mesa

RuMR, Your point is valid, but nowhere in Pope's post can I come up with what you stated.

Somewhere beneath your personal insults you may have a point, but it sure is difficult to distinguish.

And just whose ethical considerations should we all read about? VK's? Mine? Yours? They would all be different and just give "extremists" something else to bitch about. Why should he set himself up for that?