One fix for seattle needed

[Fairweather]

Prole, you are the last person here who should be reprimanding anyone for playing a "two-party grudge match." Fucking hilarious. As for Woodrow, well, yes he used his new-found power against organizers and socialists like Debs--or anyone else who spoke out against his war of choice. More importantly, anyone who challenged his authority to conduct the war. (Harding, an evil Republican, released him BTW.)

 

Sorry, I'm not due for another read of Das Kapital or the Manifesto for a long, long time. In any event, I don't think Marx was an evil man. But I think his ideas on how societies ought to organize are so easily corrupted by evil men--like Lenin--that they should be studied only with the absolute highest level of cynicism. Ditto 3.2 versions like Gramsci. In short, I reject the (your) notion of a post-modern world. Whether you are, in fact, a communist who now claims Lenin was merely practicing "state capitalism," or whether you believe in some rehash version that calls itself "cosmopolitan" or "communitarian" or whatever, I don't really care. Moderately-regulated capitalism (and private property) is firmly rooted and will remain so for a long, long time to come. Don't like it? Move your ass to Cuba.

 

 

[prole]

The fact that you think Marx was more concerned with "how society ought to be run" than with trying to understand how capitalist society works tells me you don't know enough about what these guys were actually up to to critique them. The man spend a significant amount of time berating his contemporaries for engaging in just that kind of "utopianism". You really should either try harder, avoid the topic entirely, or do what you do best: simple minded red baiting and atrocity photos. The same goes for what you think you know about what I 'believe'.

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

"You've shown a real knack for using it to intimidate and silence opposition, and your comments here are a reflection of this.

 

May I suggest Cuba--and a leaky boat."

 

 

[olyclimber]

Seattle doesn't need fixing! Its so perfect.

[prole]

 

Should be replaced with this:

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

History is interesting, but action today is what creates the future. If anyone is truly interested in what the ACLU is doing right now - consider joining the ACLU Action Network for national level issues, and/or the ACLU of WA Action Network for issues in Washington State.

 

These actions are carefully timed and coordinated for maximum effect - when a bill is in the Rules Committee, ei, before said committee kills it, for example. If fighting the NSA's $52 Billion a year surveillance programs is a priority for you, for example, you might consider joining forces with tens of thousands of like-minded others to get real and actually do something productive rather than whining about The Kenyan or whatever.

 

Other actions one can take right now include supporting the USA FREEDOM ACT at the federal level, and the Drone Regulation Bill Washington's Drone Regulation Bill.

 

Kudos to Rand, and the anti-surveillance PR and support it generates, but his choice of using a class action lawsuit is risky in that he must show standing, and calculate damages, for each and every plaintiff.

 

The ACLUs 2006 lawsuit: ACLU v NSA, was tossed in 2007 based on the org's inability to prove standing for a much smaller group of plaintiffs - because the program was, after all, secret. SCOTUS refused to hear that case on appeal, so that was that. Given this, Paul's will likely be a steeply uphill battle.

 

The ACLU filed another suit - ACLU v Clapper, in 2013, based on 4th amendment violations of the mass phone surveillance program (USA PATRIOT ACT, SEC 215, aka, the 'Verizon Program'), revealed by Snowden, in the wake of the Boston Bombing. This suit was tossed by federal judge later that year - who, based on his ruling, clearly believes such guilty-until-proven-innocent programs are necessary to keep us safe. The ACLU is appealing.

 

The ACLU is strongly advocating immunity for Snowden.

 

The ACLU also filed suit in 2013 against the NYPD for spying on law abiding Muslims.

 

These are just a few of the organization's many actions with regards to rolling back today's surveillance state - one of many campaigns the organization is involved with right now.

 

Obviously, the ACLU is sitting on our hands in deference to Obama, here. Where's the outrage? Or, more accurately, what have substantive actions have the ACLU's critics on this forum taken, personally, to combat the surveillance program they claim to be so worried about? Well, that's the internet, for ya.

 

The ACLU's history of public education, legislative action, and litigation with regards to surveillance is long, deep, non-partisan, and readily available as a matter of public record for anyone interested in truly knowing what the organization has done to protect and support the 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments.

 

Ancient history, perhaps, but the ACLU was founded to take action against the Palmer Raids - the extra-constitutional rounding up and imprisonment of labor organizers in 1919/20 - under a Democrat's administration. The ACLU works with both sides of the aisle, as any successful organization must, to affect legislative reform. Claiming otherwise reveals a fundamental lack of familiarity with the basic realities of the legislative process.

 

Furthermore, ACLU has long partnered with a variety of

conservative organizations and individuals - Gun Owners of America (who regularly accuse the less conservative NRA of 'selling out'), the Jehovah's Witnesses, and Rush Limbaugh, to name a few, on its campaigns and actions - despite opposition from these vary same groups and individuals on other parts of its agenda. This calls for operating based on principles, not vindictiveness - an apparently alien concept for some posters here.

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2014 by tvashtarkatena

[tvashtarkatena]

The bill (now EHB 2789) passed the House with broad support (83-15) on Feb 17. The outlook is good for this one so far.

 

[ivan]

could drones be the key to finally beating the afeared blackberry bush the fuck back into place?!?

[genepires]

could drones be the key to finally beating the afeared blackberry bush the fuck back into place?!?

 

a goat works much better than a drone.

 

[Crux]

[video:youtube]

[glassgowkiss]

This is what statue of lenin in seattle is representing:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/01/284345466/russias-parliament-prepared-to-authorize-crimea-intervention

more death, more oppression and more misery. I am sure a statue of hitler would not survive a single day of jewish protests.

[tvashtarkatena]

Didn't click on your link, but I'll observe that

 

a) you can only lay claim to what the offending statue means to you, and

b) you choose that response, as opposed to a universe of other possible responses

 

IE, If Lenin makes you feel angry or otherwise miserable - that's all you, man.

 

You grew up in a totalitarian state - that's been overly established at this point, and your early authoritarian training seems to remain deeply embedded within you in that you a) very often claim to speak for others who clearly have not and could not grant their consent for such representation, and

b) attempt to punish anyone who attempts to question you. There can be no real punishment, of course - you're just another innernut on a keyboard.

 

 

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

I think you are completely full of shit and completely out of line. Maybe you should say what you said to the families of people in the film below. Please click this time before spouting more nonsense. Yes, pretty grim footage:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/20/ukraine-dead-protesters-police

[ivan]

who gives a shit about dead people? lenin, stalin, gandhi, jesus, muhammad- fuck'em, they're long in the grave and dead-as-dillinger - who can they hurt or help now? your fight is w/ the living who are somehow inspired by their lives - how many fremonters get so fired up by old illiych's homely visage as to rush right home and thumb through his manifesto? i'm putting a shiny nickel on exactly zilch.

[glassgowkiss]

ignore history and it's lessons, hide your heads in sand- American Way! Until Pearl Harbor, or 9/11. Because till 9/11 who even knew where Afghanistan was?! And what lenin started, looks like putin is trying to finish, I predict a massive military conflict in Europe (tactical nukes involved) in the next 3-5 years.

[ivan]

if you want to remember history and its attendant lessons, isn't putting a statue of a famous fuck-nut up on public display a pretty goddamn good way to do it?

 

hope you're wrong on the nukes thing - if it does happen, i doubt the lenin statue will have had anythign to do w/ it (and a MAD-exchange oughta put your art-complaints in perspective right quick)

[tvashtarkatena]

If Europe and America burn only Lenin will remain.

[mountainsandsound]

Could the car in the grip of the Fremont troll somehow be replaced with Lenin? And then maybe modify it a bit, perhaps the troll checking up on Vlad's prostate or something?

[glassgowkiss]

if you want to remember history and its attendant lessons, isn't putting a statue of a famous fuck-nut up on public display a pretty goddamn good way to do it?

 

Really, is this truly the best way? Really deviant and fucked up.

 

hope you're wrong on the nukes thing - if it does happen, i doubt the lenin statue will have had anythign to do w/ it (and a MAD-exchange oughta put your art-complaints in perspective right quick)

 

The events in Ukraine were predicted in 2008. Here is an article, but back then nobody would listen.

Read http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1832846,00.html?xid=fbshare

BTW thanks to GW and his crew for fucking it up! Here is to the retards!

[ivan]

if you want to remember history and its attendant lessons, isn't putting a statue of a famous fuck-nut up on public display a pretty goddamn good way to do it?

 

Really, is this truly the best way? Really deviant and fucked up.

 

they left part of auschwitz standing didn't they? little big horn still is largely given over to history too, and today's visitors have far more sympathy for the winners that day then custer i'd wager.

 

the fact that we're having a conversation about evil of lenin is proof enough of the value of the statue - how many kids have been driven by that statue i wonder and asked who it was and had it explained in terms that you'd approve? more than who have and admired the man it represents i'm sure.

 

i suspect you're like most folks - you need something to hate - it keeps you warm n' bubbly inside - ole'illiych does that for you something special -and how would you feel if the universe suddenly swerved into left field and left you nothing of statutes of unicorns n' shit?

[tvashtarkatena]

You're a deviant, Ivan - no better than all those gay Russian emigres sent to succubusize the Supreme Soviet Man. Deviant, I say!

 

Clearly, if we just TEAR DOWN THAT STATUE, the Rooskies will decamp from Crimea and become the New Sweden.

 

I should know - its all there in that dog-eared Time I pilfered from the Jiffylube Guest Lounge.

 

[rob]

I predict a massive military conflict in Europe (tactical nukes involved) in the next 3-5 years.

 

loooool. You've been hanging around with Bill?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

ignore history and it's lessons, hide your heads in sand- American Way! Until Pearl Harbor, or 9/11. Because till 9/11 who even knew where Afghanistan was?! And what lenin started, looks like putin is trying to finish, I predict a massive military conflict in Europe (tactical nukes involved) in the next 3-5 years.

 

Immediately following the Maidan protests and deaths, a shit ton of Lenin statues were indeed pulled over in Ukraine. You have your point, GGK, but Americans won't ever get it.

 

kydayesh horokh ob stinu...

[rob]

 

Immediately following the Maidan protests and deaths, a shit ton of Lenin statues were indeed pulled over in Ukraine. You have your point, GGK, but Americans won't ever get it.

 

wait, they tore down the statues but that still didn't fix the problem? WEIRD! Maybe we should try again in Fremont, probably the last statue has to be destroyed before they all lose their power, like in Harry Potter.

[glassgowkiss]

 

Immediately following the Maidan protests and deaths, a shit ton of Lenin statues were indeed pulled over in Ukraine. You have your point, GGK, but Americans won't ever get it.

 

wait, they tore down the statues but that still didn't fix the problem? WEIRD! Maybe we should try again in Fremont, probably the last statue has to be destroyed before they all lose their power, like in Harry Potter.

 

Wait! this is how a half wit moron would answer the question.