26 dead in Connecticut elementary school

[kevbone]

.

[Layback]

The problem isn't specifically guns or laws. The problem is that our society has eroded to a place where this is happening more and more. I had already forgotten about the Oregon Mall shooting when my mother in CT texted me this morning to share the news with me. Had this not been in my home state I probably would have shrugged it off like I did Virginia Tech. We're all getting numb to this sort of nonsense.

 

50 years ago if there was a homicide it was BIG news. Now homocides are commonplace and we rarely hear about them unless they're nearby. When was the last time any of you raised an eyebrow when you heard that someone had been shot in Seattle?

 

So while guns aren't specifically the problem, and the fact remains that tighter gun control couldn't have prevented this, I submit to you that there are a lot of other murders and school shootings where tighter gun control could have made the difference. That dude pulled the trigger because someone already took violence to a level where it was imaginable to shoot up a high school or a college. It became thinkable for the Columbine gunmen to commit mass murder because someone else had raised the bar. More gun control means less murders means the bar won't get raised as quickly. I'm all for second amendment rights but there has to be a place where right to bear arms and right to safety meets in the middle. Clearly nuclear weapon aren't specifically accounted for in the second amendment yet we're not permitted to posses them.

 

Regrettably, I believe that we're at a place as a society where school shootings are here to stay. I'm sad for my kids and the lack of freedom they'll enjoy as a result.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The problem isn't specifically guns or laws. The problem is that our society has eroded to a place where this is happening more and more. I had already forgotten about the Oregon Mall shooting when my mother in CT texted me this morning to share the news with me. Had this not been in my home state I probably would have shrugged it off like I did Virginia Tech. We're all getting numb to this sort of nonsense.

 

50 years ago if there was a homicide it was BIG news. Now homocides are commonplace and we rarely hear about them unless they're nearby. When was the last time any of you raised an eyebrow when you heard that someone had been shot in Seattle?

 

So while guns aren't specifically the problem, and the fact remains that tighter gun control couldn't have prevented this, I submit to you that there are a lot of other murders and school shootings where tighter gun control could have made the difference. That dude pulled the trigger because someone already took violence to a level where it was imaginable to shoot up a high school or a college. It became thinkable for the Columbine gunmen to commit mass murder because someone else had raised the bar. More gun control means less murders means the bar won't get raised as quickly. I'm all for second amendment rights but there has to be a place where right to bear arms and right to safety meets in the middle. Clearly nuclear weapon aren't specifically accounted for in the second amendment yet we're not permitted to posses them.

 

Regrettably, I believe that we're at a place as a society where school shootings are here to stay. I'm sad for my kids and the lack of freedom they'll enjoy as a result.

 

Well said. Unfortunately I think you are spot on here.

[glassgowkiss]

Legally, illegally - either way I'd say it is not working. Tell one of the parents you think more guns is the answer.

 

I never said more guns is the answer.

 

If there are laws on the books that this guy violated to obtain the weapons, then gun control clearly is not effective, is it?

 

If this guy has a history of mental instability and was allowed to stay free and clear (rather than be treated, medicated or possibly institutionalized), then clearly there is a problem there, isn't there?

 

To fix what went wrong you actually have to identify the failure first.

Such a horseshit argument. It's like you'd have a stretch of a road with several fatal accidents and nobody would do a thing. Blaming on individual bad drivers and it's theirs fault, not a specific design of the road. The truth of the matter is that we have more people with access to firearms and more people killed by them, then any other developed country. A person shooting in Arizona had history of mental problems and was removed from local community college. However he was not a mental patient, so he obtained his gun from a store, in a legal way with a background check. So the system is simply not working. Besides- you can just waltz into a wallmart, use a stolen credit card (as then never check your ID with cc) and buy a shotgun- no checks, nothing. Right now there is no background checks on rifles or shotguns at all.

 

[jon]

I hope you love your guns this much Republicans.

 

Classy, utilize a horrible tragedy as a political tool; despite the fact that you know nothing about the manner in which this individual obtained his firearms. How did I know I would find this filth on this website? You too Rob. Classless.

 

A 20-year-old man wearing combat gear and armed with semiautomatic pistols and a semiautomatic rifle killed 26 people — 20 of them children — in an attack in an elementary school in central Connecticut on Friday. Witnesses and officials described a horrific scene as the gunman, with brutal efficiency, chose his victims in two classrooms while other students dove under desks and hid in closets.

 

Excuse me if I'm unapologetic for my statement. It is inarguable that the Republican apparatus has done everything in it's power to derail any sort of gun control in our country.

 

Shall we list the mass shootings in our country recently?

 

• This
• Oregeon
• Batman guy
  

 

Of course this is the gem.

 

That victim, one law enforcement official said, was Mr. Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, who worked at the school. She apparently owned the guns he used.

[Crux]

Bullet tax: $5k each. Your 2nd amendment rights are worth it.

[Crux]

To fix what went wrong you actually have to identify the failure first.

 

With increasing frequency, we repeatedly suffer a failure to protect our children.

[matt_warfield]

Instead of focusing on gun control, we should focus on mental illness.

 

There is always a weapon for those so inclined to hurt themselves or others.

 

And while this is terrible, for perspective 800,000 people were killed in the Hutu/Tutsi genocide.

 

Shit is going to happen until the end of time.

Edited December 15, 2012 by matt_warfield

[ivan]

 

There is always a weapon for those so inclined to hurt themselves or others.

.

true, but a musket, which is 2nd amendment legit, doesn't exactly let you breeze through a whole class-room of kids in 60 seconds, now does it?

[matt_warfield]

I know you are a teacher so understand.

 

But a stone cold killer with a couple 9 mms and a couple clips or an AK47 puts the Portland mall shooting to shame.

Edited December 15, 2012 by matt_warfield

[ivan]

yeah, i know, that's my point, if ever i'm making one - let's go back to 1791, before them henry-ford fucks n' their industrial revolution had to go fuck it all up for the rest of us - 1791 weapon technology, while good enough to hunt, defned yerself, and shoot down your secesh politish, required extraordinary skill, expense or co-conspirators to wreck this kind of carnage.

 

the implemnation, i'll warrant you, would be inevitably a bit of a cock-up...

 

as for being a teacher, jeebus, doens't that make me the first to smile sardonically a bit - who DOESN'T want to shoot kids most days?

 

at any rate, i figure i'm pretty safe from such school shootings - i open my class each year w/ a long list of reasons nobody in it needs to shoot me n' mine to get what they want, and being in a trailer, i figure your big-body count would-be colombine-boyo ain't starting w/ me, leaving me plenty of time to make a little fortress of solitude w/ chairs n' history books

[prole]

America, once again in the role as the world's retarded pit bull.

[glassgowkiss]

Instead of focusing on gun control, we should focus on mental illness.

So how many shooting were there in Canada recently? I bet there is an equal number of mentally ill people there as in the US. The difference is their gun laws.

And if guns are so fucking harmless, how is it that in Iraq the official US policy was to disarm ordinary, law abiding citizens?

[glassgowkiss]

I know you are a teacher so understand.

 

But a stone cold killer with a couple 9 mms and a couple clips or an AK47 puts the Portland mall shooting to shame.

It's the same fucking puke argument and what? Any of these assholes should be proud of their deadly deeds? So is it dick measuring contest now? WTF?

[glassgowkiss]

After what happened yesterday, anyone arguing against a legit gun control (and type of gun laws actually working) is a psycho-puke-fuckheaded retard.

[ivan]

America, once again in the role as the world's retarded pit bull.

naw, that's just the usmc

[ivan]

we make monuments for the dead of our wars, for those who "die for our freedoms"

 

it may well be that our freedom to own our own arsenal trumps all others, whatver, but perhaps we should at least make a mighty monument to all those who die in order to secure it too? a big old wall, like for vietnam, that i suspect in short order would far outstrip it...

[prole]

[Kimmo]

haven't thought about the whole gun laws in the ol' US thing lately, but this whole killing phenomenon ain't a particularly US humanoid only thing:

 

link

[Kimmo]

btw, it ain't the mass killings that seem to be a good argument against lax gun laws, it's the daily carnage of about 5 a day that we don't even hear about. easy to pick up a gun when angry.

[tvashtarkatena]

Legally, illegally - either way I'd say it is not working. Tell one of the parents you think more guns is the answer.

 

I never said more guns is the answer.

 

If there are laws on the books that this guy violated to obtain the weapons, then gun control clearly is not effective, is it?

 

If this guy has a history of mental instability and was allowed to stay free and clear (rather than be treated, medicated or possibly institutionalized), then clearly there is a problem there, isn't there?

 

To fix what went wrong you actually have to identify the failure first.

 

How many other crazies would have shot their way through a few clips had these laws not been in place? Who's to say that even more restrictive laws wouldn't have prevented this particular incident from happening?

 

FYI: the policy strategy is called harm reduction. Not a lot of Righty Tighties grok it, but it works. Cherry picking the one that got away to argue against the strategy in general is for morons, of course. The logic is exactly the same as arguing against drunk driving laws because drunk driving accidents still occur.

 

It's funny how the Right argues against social services - for the mentally ill, for example, then switches to the 'let's focus on the crazies, not the guns' argument when a mass shooting occurs.

 

We will never, ever be able to preempt people losing like this. Such folks show few signs of their intentions beforehand. What we can do, of course, is restrict gun availability overall to reduce the problem. With massive increase in mass shootings, I would think this would be a number one national security priority by now.

 

Yet another tide of history issue the Right will eventually lose on, I expect. We'll see.

 

 

[AlpineK]

It seems like a large enough group of people think the founding fathers had enough super power to see into the future and imagine all the changes or permutations the word, guns could take.

 

Guns used to mean a musket or rifle and a hand gun. Ammunition changed too. You don't or shouldn't use a rapid fire gun for hunting, and there have been enough folks or small groups with a huge arsenal at there disposal who couldn't outrun the long arm of the law. Think Ruby Ridge or Waco Texas.

 

I have no problem with the premise of the 2nd amendment. Better background checks and individual licensing like a car license that you have to renew? Yep cars kill people. At least it raises the bar while keeping guns available.

[glassgowkiss]

US constitution is becoming Koran of the country and the prophets, who wrote it were omnipotent geniuses. Like they were not wrong on slavery!

[ivan]

might need a couple more presidents n' congressman to get caped before the lesson sinks in?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

That victim, one law enforcement official said, was Mr. Lanza’s mother, Nancy Lanza, who worked at the school. She apparently owned the guns he used.

 

So, gun control (disallowing the mentally ill from obtaining them) helps how here exactly?