Hanger Replacement at Vantage

[wdietsch]

quote:

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Originally posted by KeithKSchultz:

Remember the columns over on the Tieton (Washington columns?)?

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Royal Columns

[Bob_Clarke]

What I find very interesting is that this kind of action (stealing anchors/hangers/slings)is so prevalant at Vantage. No one is doing this kind of thing at Index, Little Si, Smith, Sqaumish, Skaha, Darrington. When I go on a climb beit gear or sport and at an established area there is a universal respect and expectation that an anchor indicated in a guidebook will be there. Theivery in any example should never be condoned and could lead to unexpected accidents. Having a climber killed or mamed because someone is trying to make a point or impose they're "ethics" may come to pass. God willing not.

Most everyone in the climbing community in and around Seattle are pretty excited about all of the development at Sunshine Wall and the surrounding coulee that's been happing over the years. I too have climbed at sunshine wall when we could camp right in front of it and not on the backside of the Feathers and wished there were a few sport routes just to mix it up once in a while. However I've taken a position that I'm staying out of the entier mess by not climbing there until the FCCC and posters like those here have worked out the access, bolting, theivery issues.

[KeithKSchultz]

Yeh OK. Even though it was your rude comments that turned this into a personal bullshit fest, I will recant my message with the joke icon so that you can puff your chest out with impunity.

I presented an opinion based on 20 years of experience with a variety of agencies who use "public land use management" as a euphamism for justfying user fees. You responded with a cryptic emotional attack.

I did not attack your opinions, nor did I seriously insinuate that you stole the hangers at vantage. The joke icon is used regularly to defuse comments. I just countered your eletist attitude, which sucks. You are just another climber dude. Not a gift. Why not let people exchange ideas on this board without having to be lawers versed in what Erik thinks is cool.

[erik]

gawdblessamerica

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: erik ]

[Szyjakowski]

quote:

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Originally posted by KeithKSchultz:

Hmmmmm...... Have we found the ellusive hanger theif?

Erik, there is a guide book for the coulee. People are arriving in hoards compared to 10 years ago and their numbers will continue to increase. Deal with it.

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There was a guidebook ten years ago too It was green and called the Washington Desert by John Eminger. its not the books that bring the hoards; its the bolts...look at any climbing area in general...before bolts, no crowds...after bolts, crowds....just like smithHowever, Charlie is right the rap stations that are there minimize the impact on the delicate desert landscape and should be there...just don't put bolts next to existing crack lines. Like Red M and M's and yes erik is a nice guy even though he is a red head freak

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: Szyjakowski ]

[chucK]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ropegun2002:

What I find very interesting is that this kind of action (stealing anchors/hangers/slings)is so prevalant at Vantage. No one is doing this kind of thing at Index, Little Si, Smith, Sqaumish, Skaha, Darrington.

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At Vantage you can walk, perhaps crawl, right to the top of the violated blot lines. I don't find it surprising that it happened here and nowhere else. Plus I think it happens at these other places too (Index had a chopping incident just last year, Exit 38 had easy-to-reach hangers stolen not too long ago). Add in the fact that some optimists are not resigned to writing off Vantage to be trashed like Smith and you got a recipe for hanger-thievin' disaster.

[lizard_brain]

It's the bolts.

[CAMAZONIA]

i dunno who took the hangers from sunshine but it sucks, there are only a few good cracks there and i don't want to have to wait in line to get on one!taking hangers isn't going to stop climbers from comeing to sunshine wall! It doesn't take much of a brain to figure out that you can get more routes in and save vegetation buy haveing anchors at the top of routes.some of the useless dribble that falls off the fingers of the posters here is amazeing Bolt choppers are like crack bolters hang'em before they breed!

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: CAMAZONIA ]

[Charlie]

I think that we have all spent too much time arguing over a piece of webbing and a rap sling. personally, I'm done. Erik, I'm sure that you know a debate is just that and nothing more- Next time we run into each other I know we will give each other the same friendly greetings as usual.

[Marty]

Szyjakowski- "its not the books that bring the hoards; its the bolts...look at any climbing area in general...before bolts, no crowds...after bolts, crowds....just like smith"

This is incorrect: I'ts the EASY bolted lines that bring crowds. You'll rarely wait in line at Smith for anthing that's 5.11 or harder. Except for a couple warm up routes and overly raved about 5.12's.

[wdietsch]

I am not advocating bolting ... but just curious why not use the "Euro" style glue-in type bolts that do not require a separate hanger leaving nothing to steal?

Vantage is a fun place to climb. Before moving away from Yakima I would visit there 2-3 times a years and always had a good time and met some great people. It is sad to see it at the center of such bullshit. First the trash (refuse, not people) now this theft/bolt issue.

[KeithKSchultz]

quote:

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Originally posted by erik:

keith i am the nicest person alive........

i am not right nor wrong........

my ideas are mine.......take what you want from them.....

just dont ever call me a thief......ever...

i am not an elitest either....ask anyone who knows me................

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I'm glad you are not a theif. But nice? Your flames are too consistent to believe that. I know a lot more cimbers who will not look on this board than those who will because of the locker room mentality and the unneccessary flaming. From what I have seen when I log on here, you are one of the meanest. Flame on dude, but don't call yourself nice......ever.

[Matt]

Damn, there are some recycled arguments going on here. Can't you guys think of something new to talk about? I saw on the FCCC website there is a meeting coming up, I believe it's April 6th. If you really care about the Coulee you should show up. As I recall, it was the day after the last meeting when the Sunshine Wall bolts disappeared.

Keith-- I'd just like to say Erik IS a nice guy. You just have to read most of what he writes with a grain of salt. He's a real climber, not one who just talks about it. Here's to ya Erik!

[cappellini]

my favorite topic is back....a day doesn't go by when i go to sunshine wall and climb safely with natural gear, within arms reach of easily avoided, distracting, preplaced expansion bolts...or worse, spend the entire day looking at a decent line i haven't climbed in a while but can't climb because there is a group of ten camped out on some silly contrivance within arms reach of the natural line...they never finish and go away like the typical party leading with natural protection would.....they hang out on that tr all day, all ten at the base of the route not just the belayer...

..those bolted contrivances are masturbative convenience...mear contrivance created by the weak, lazy or momentarily disillusioned....it's like eating a fu#$%ing "Lunchable"....selfish, shameless, and unsightly...

there is an almost unending wealth of excellent rock in central washington that is well suited for bolted climbing...there are currently hundreds of routes like these at vantage, most of them quite good...but there is not a logical argument out there that can claim a line of preplaced expansion bolts is justifiable, when within arms reach of natural gear placements..you people must be ignorant, arrogant, or just simply inbred...i aplaud the brave soles who chose the boston tea party approach to saying enough is enough....they are standing up for the rock we invite ourselves to climb on...show some respect, and for ch@##$st sake...live a little and use your rack once in a while.......if you don't have one you can borrow mine as long as you let me borrow your stick clip when i'm sport climbing...

[cappellini]

oh yea before i go...kithkshultz..are you sure your not flaming????? cuz if so...sum boys hairn dryden prolly thank you gut a perty mouth.....

[rayborbon]

quote:

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Originally posted by cappellini:

oh yea before i go...kithkshultz..are you sure your not flaming????? cuz if so...sum boys hairn dryden prolly thank you gut a perty mouth.....

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Heheheh.

[Dwayner]

Ropegun up above say:

"Most everyone in the climbing community in and around Seattle are pretty excited about all of the development at Sunshine Wall and the surrounding coulee that's been happing over the years.

Brother Ropegun must live in some special sporto/gym "community" because a good many of the folks I know think Vantage is a travesty.

- Dwayner

[Dwayner]

I've just got around to reading through this topic and it has brought up some interesting notions. I was especially impressed with my buddy pope's statement on the first page and I believe that it is worthy of repeating:

"Having a little self-discipline in your culture can produce excellent results. Witness the origin of the world's finest automobiles, beers, and leather shorts. We live in the Wild West, where just about anybody can live freely, and I wouldn't have it any other way. We don't need rules; but we do need a little pride and self-discipline.

Increasingly, people are attracted to our sport because of its sexy image. Instead of appreciating that mountaineering is supposed to offer many kinds of challenges in a wilderness setting, instead of appreciating that skill and experience (not just athleltic ability) are required for excellence, it seems that many climbers today have the attitude that they should climb the hardest routes and even establish new routes within six months of starting. Many are willing to take short cuts (hang dogging and "red pointing" at a certain grade (say, 5.12), then announcing, "I climb 5.12." What seems to be genuinely missing is a sense of style and a commitment to not littering the rock. What seems to be present is a sense that anybody and everybody should be able to purchase a drill, charge it up all night, then head out to Vantage to push the envelope, to define the cutting edge of mountaineering. Too often, the result is an insultingly over-bolted 5.9 route that could easily be TR'd."Amen, brother!- DwaynerP.S. And where are all of them people crapping out there? (Apart from the metallic feces to be found plastered on the rock in all directions.)

[Retrosaurus]

The power drill and the fools driving them have made a travesty of climbing at The Coulee. They are the only reason that the place is regulated now.

[Guest]

If the bolters thought twice about where and how many bolts they put in the rock it would help.

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by Charlie:

Erik, I'm sure that you know a debate is just that and nothing more- Next time we run into each other I know we will give each other the same friendly greetings as usual.

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you know it baby....holding grudges is for the weak of mind and spirit!!!! long live fun!!!!

[Recriminator]

quote:

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Originally posted by Retrosaurus:

The power drill and the fools driving them have made a travesty of climbing at The Coulee. They are the only reason that the place is regulated now.

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your the only one doing the regulateing, you crag police or what??

Hey sunshine wall is a climbing area, it can be crowded but it's cool, except when a bolt chop'in, hanger remove'in, noze in the air asshole shows up bitch'in about bolted routes.

That would be mitch the bitch better known as retro-ball-less KISS IT

[max]

quote:

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Originally posted by Recriminator:

That would be mitch the bitch better known as retro-ball-less

KISS IT

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Uh, I think mitch has the biggest balls here. Have you ever seen his list of firsts? Know about the climb "Shrinking Balls Disease?"

[Bug]

Beware the new breed of climber. On the first trip to the climbing shop he buys a drill. He means well but drills wantonly or means ill and drills maliciously. Not that many are like that but it does not take many to screw things up. There are high quality places in Washington that have been bolted for decades but see very little traffic even now. These should be held as secret stashes. Not to be shared without careful consideration. Some places such as Vantage have become sacrificial test pieces. Just how far can reason be pressed? What kind of action is effective? It remains to be seen. Sad as it is, humans tend to deficate in their own cages and turn on each other quickly.

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bug:

Sad as it is, humans tend to deficate in their own cages and turn on each other quickly.

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... and then Bugs flourish on their excrement and their rotting flesh. Sounds just like vantage to me, except they cart off the carcasses too quickly. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be a bug. At least there is still the excrement.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: Retrosaurus ]