Union Thugery

[j_b]

After everything that happened over the last decade, Bronco finally found something that moved him enough to post it in spray.

 

For the union version of the dispute (nice hatchet job AP): http://www.longshoreshippingnews.com/2011/09/robert-mcellrath-ilwu-international-president-we-will-not-permit-egt-to-undermine-the-grain-export-industry/

[billcoe]

As a small business owner I can tell you we don't hire contractors who are organized.

We prefer folks we hire to be organized. Disorganized we can do ourselves. LOL!

 

 

We simply won't do business with them beause of this sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior and inflated labor rates.

Actually, in the trades, it tends to be a guarantee of better quality. Short version is that Union workers can't just hang a shingle and announce they are in business. If you are talking unions organizing the government workers and enabling the entitlement mentality, well, that's just a double whammy we don't need and you won't see me disagree. Really depends what you are discussing I would suppose. There are good and bad with most unions. Although there are a lot of variations of that theme, we could probably rehash it for days. Everyone has strong opinions based on their own experiences.

 

Take care!

[genepires]

... or someone with discipline and good work ethic. As a small business owner I can tell you we don't hire contractors who are organized. We simply won't do business with them beause of this sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior and inflated labor rates.

 

I am a union electrician and have never seen the sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior that you described. Fact is we compete with non union and cannot have these attitudes you speak of. This goes for all the construction trades. So please offer some situations you have witnessed these attitudes.

 

As for inflated labor rates, you get what you pay for. While I have not worked non union, I have talked to the state electrical inspectors and they are always pleased with our work.

[AlpineK]

I work in an industry where there is voluntary certification. You can run a business without hiring employees with industry certification.

 

It's an open market. If companies employing folks who maintain certification charge a price a little higher than average and run their business successfully for some time other business will take note. A business owner who does not employ folks with certification is just going to charge what he/she perceives the market rate to be.

[rob]

... or someone with discipline and good work ethic. As a small business owner I can tell you we don't hire contractors who are organized. We simply won't do business with them beause of this sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior and inflated labor rates.

 

Yeah, as someone with a lot of management experience, I hate it when workers band together for their own common good: it makes it so much harder to abuse them. It's even worse once they feel entitled to anything, like fair pay!!!! Before you know it, management will be expected to shrink their own bonuses to prevent cutting wages and laying people off. IMAGINE!!!

 

I wish we could go back to the industrial revolution. Those were good times!

 

[tvashtarkatena]

... or someone with discipline and good work ethic. As a small business owner I can tell you we don't hire contractors who are organized. We simply won't do business with them beause of this sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior and inflated labor rates.

 

And I prefer not to give my business to pissant business owners who have this bullshit attitude.

 

Quid pro quo, MFKR.

 

 

[rob]

When people are abused by their employers, it's just cause they don't have discipline and a good work ethic.

[prole]

There's no such thing as "abuse". It's simply a matter of what the market will bear.

[akhalteke]

 

That is called "media sensationalizing"

 

Yep....just like the "war on terror".

 

Except, there ARE hundreds of thousands that would kill you, your wife and your kids given the chance; based upon your chosen way of life.

 

...but yeah, similar.

[akhalteke]

After everything that happened over the last decade, Bronco finally found something that moved him enough to post it in spray.

 

For the union version of the dispute (nice hatchet job AP): http://www.longshoreshippingnews.com/2011/09/robert-mcellrath-ilwu-international-president-we-will-not-permit-egt-to-undermine-the-grain-export-industry/

 

Longshore Shipping News huh Beebs? Sounds unbiased to me!

[Buckshot]

The causes for the labor movement are things of the past with modern labor laws. The union's job is done, time to go away in the US. My former unions mainly tried to block employee drug screening so the good union boys could go on comming to work high.

The teachers union I worked for faught so that teachers would get paid, not by of ability but rather who could go on longest without getting fired.

The UAW destroyed GM. Really, $45 an hour and a pension for life for a riveter with NO skills? Why NOT build overseas?

[LUCKY]

Unions got you the 40 hour wook week, health care, pensions a fair family working wage...never seen a union WORKER getting rich...just a family wage.

The union fat cats can be a little corrupt but they protect their working base, unlike your more corrupt bankers or politicians, I guess those pour UAW workers that could not afford a collage education don't deserve a fair shake, what a bummer not being born to fat rich parents!Oh yeah those union guys are bleed'n and sweat'n all day for a wage to support their family not spray'n smack on the internet...spoiled bunch of..............$#^@#$!#

 

[Bronco]

... or someone with discipline and good work ethic.

you must not have read "the jungle" plenty of folks out there who have been out of work for a long time now who have a good attitude and skills.

 

Not only have I read The Jungle, I worked in a (non-union) meat packing plant for one summer. I thought the conditions in the plant I worked at were worse than what was detailed in the book.

[Bronco]

I am a union electrician and have never seen the sense of entitlement, irrational and irresponsible behavior that you described. Fact is we compete with non union and cannot have these attitudes you speak of. This goes for all the construction trades. So please offer some situations you have witnessed these attitudes.

 

In my personal experiences working on the University of WA hospital in 1995-96 as a non union sheet metal installer I experienced threats, theft of tools, destruction of materials, being spit on and berated for "taking food out of their kids mouths" mostly by the Iron Workers. We had to go to a swing shift to keep them happy and were rewarded with having to run the guantlet every afternoon while being spit on and threatened as the Union crew left. Arriving on the job we would find the previous night's work destroyed, tool boxes cut open (with a torch of course) and fall protection gear cut to shreds. Returning to our vehicles at 2:00 am we'd find flat tires, "scab" etched into the door, blah blah blah. Same deal on the REI flagship store around 1996 or 1997. Nobody deserves to be treated like that becasue they don't belong to a Union and it chafes my hide that it still goes on.

 

I think this is the part of the conversation where I say, "You're a commie" and you say "well you're a corporate shill"........

 

[ivan]

Not only have I read The Jungle, I worked in a (non-union) meat packing plant for one summer. I thought the conditions in the plant I worked at were worse than what was detailed in the book.

but how does that square with "the causes for the labor movement are things of the past with modern labor laws?" even if you just mean the general dirtiness of the slaughterhouse, not the treatment of workers in it, it still is a testament to the fact that no problem stays fixed for long

 

i'm pretty active in my teachers union, and fwiw, have been plenty vocal and active in getting other union members who are dead weight to get the hell out...

 

reckon steelworkers are rough dudes regardless of wether or not their unionized?

[rob]

reckon steelworkers are rough dudes regardless of wether or not their unionized?

 

[LUCKY]

http://www.lulu.com/product/hardcover/ripples-of-a-lie/14606065

Labor history the hang'n of a union man from the bridge in Centralia Washington

[Bronco]

Ivan - most teachers are underpaid, not sure a Union is the answer but probably effective negoitating contracts in a lawful and rational manner. I served as chairman on a rural school board in Montana and my hat's off to you -

 

Gene - I should clarfy that it's certainly not my intent to paint ALL union members as bad people, everyone knows it just takes a few bad apples in an organization and I'm sure there are 10 good ones for every bad one. Keep up the good work, guys like you are hopefully setting the pace for the rest of the members. Just don't round up your electrician brothers to storm the jobsite at 4:30 am.

 

 

[E-rock]

There's no such thing as "abuse". It's simply a matter of what the market will bear.

 

WhoahoHO! More golden droplets of knowledge rained down on our heads like a urine-stream of sarcasm. You've really got it all figgered out.

[G-spotter]

Union Corse

[genepires]

In my personal experiences working on the University of WA hospital in 1995-96 as a non union sheet metal installer I experienced threats, theft of tools, destruction of materials, being spit on and berated for "taking food out of their kids mouths" mostly by the Iron Workers. We had to go to a swing shift to keep them happy and were rewarded with having to run the guantlet every afternoon while being spit on and threatened as the Union crew left. Arriving on the job we would find the previous night's work destroyed, tool boxes cut open (with a torch of course) and fall protection gear cut to shreds. Returning to our vehicles at 2:00 am we'd find flat tires, "scab" etched into the door, blah blah blah. Same deal on the REI flagship store around 1996 or 1997. Nobody deserves to be treated like that becasue they don't belong to a Union and it chafes my hide that it still goes on.

 

I think this is the part of the conversation where I say, "You're a commie" and you say "well you're a corporate shill"........

 

that is very messed up and no one should be subject to that. every population has some bad apples and that is about as bad as it gets. That attitude does no one any good. One of the goals of our union is to organize all electricians and beating up "scabs" does not help us in that regard. Our union has had some dirt that you describe in the past but with current competition, our less understanding elements are forced to play fair in that hope to organize the entire workforce. Organize all workers means more work for all of us.

 

The best thing that union guys can do is to be a good example that union is a good thing for society. I firmly believe that union work is good for USA and "the rising tide lifts all boats".

 

I am always very nice to iron workers. They are a rough crowd but mostly good men. (at least the one I have interacted with) Would hate to be on their shit list though.

 

Oh yeah....you're a corporate shill.

[akhalteke]

Unions got you the 40 hour wook week, health care, pensions a fair family working wage...never seen a union WORKER getting rich...just a family wage.

The union fat cats can be a little corrupt but they protect their working base, unlike your more corrupt bankers or politicians, I guess those pour UAW workers that could not afford a collage education don't deserve a fair shake, what a bummer not being born to fat rich parents!Oh yeah those union guys are bleed'n and sweat'n all day for a wage to support their family not spray'n smack on the internet...spoiled bunch of..............$#^@#$!#

 

Dunno fuck-O. I went to college; paid for it myself. Also, Unions might have gotten the 40 hour work week.... guess we don't need em anymore; especially if they are going to embrace this thuggish behavior.

 

Those fat-cat leaders can eat-a-dick and so can anyone who allows and supports their antics.

 

 

[genepires]

Also, Unions might have gotten the 40 hour work week.... guess we don't need em anymore; especially if they are going to embrace this thuggish behavior.

 

Those fat-cat leaders can eat-a-dick and so can anyone who allows and supports their antics.

 

 

No union leader is going to condone that violent behavior because it does not support their goals. Once again, there are bad apples in every bunch but that doesn't mean we should throw out the whole bushel.

 

You bring up an interesting question. What would happen if there were no more unions? I believe that most people seem to think that things would go along same as ever or get better. Unions are on the way out but look at how our work force has changed. People regularly work more than 40 hours and not spending time with their family. Wages are stagnant or dropping when compared to actual purchase power. Pensions are gone. Medical is becoming too expensive even if you got it. From what I see, the things that unions fought hard for are being taken back. Without unions around, your 40 hour workweek and overtime pay and everything else that we call workers rights may disappear.

The only organization that lobbies for workers rights (union and non union workers) is the unions, especially state workers unions. Without unions, who will lobby for us? How long till all workers rights are taken away?

Anyone who seriously thinks we don't need unions (and their occasional stupidity) needs to seriously think about where we would be without because you may get what you wish for, good or bad.

Edited September 13, 2011 by genepires

[genepires]

Those fat-cat leaders can eat-a-dick and so can anyone who allows and supports their antics.

 

 

You are right that any leader who condones or supports violence should not be allowed to represent workers.

 

I like how people think that union leaders rake in the big bucks. I can't speak for other unions, but our leaders (of our local 191) make a whopping 10% more than the working journeyman.

 

I can understand Bronco's dislike for unions but I just don't get the typical anti-union sentimentality. What did we do to so many people?

[genepires]

Just don't round up your electrician brothers to storm the jobsite at 4:30 am.

 

 

I am gonna round up a bunch of raging assholes and be at your place at 4:30am.