jhamaker Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 >>>The chain reaction began when two climbers at the front of the pack slipped, falling into climbers behind them. They all crashed into the next group of climbers, and everyone tumbled into the crevasse<<< Ref:http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134464429_webhood30.html Simmilar to an accident in AK a few yrs ago. Moral: Consider not roping up if you can't arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamaker Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 >>>The chain reaction began when two climbers at the front of the pack slipped, falling into climbers behind them. They all crashed into the next group of climbers, and everyone tumbled into the crevasse<<< Ref:http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134464429_webhood30.html Simmilar to an accident in AK a few yrs ago. Moral: Consider not roping up if you can't arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal_Gravity Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jhamaker: Moral: Consider not roping up if you can't arrest.[/QB] And if you can arrest, you don't need a rope unless you need an anchor. If your arrest is not bomb proof you should be out practicing instead of climbing. Moral: have a very handy belay knife. IMO... ropes are stupid stupid stupid unless you are crossing a glacier, have an anchor, are rappeling or have an incapacitated climber with you and are going down. [ 05-30-2002, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceIceBaby Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 My god, With the glorifying of the sport. People have to pay with their life. I cant believe that people will go to that extant just to have a small talk in a party or to Impress their friends. I don’t care how "Experienced" are you, pertaining to the last example there is no reason to drag 7 people down with you. Or continue while the weather-deteriorating and etc, just to show how Hard (and dead) man are you. I wonder how all those frequent accidents happened in the most popular areas like Rainier, Hood and Baker and not on Waddington or Robson I guess that the reputation of them repels the crowds If u do not respect the mountain, it will kill you and it does not matter who you are no discriminations here. To all, don’t make light of it Climbing is a dangerous sport IT IS NOT A WALK IN THE PARK My condolences with the families [ 05-30-2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 This is the worst Moountaineering news day I've ever seen! Anyone want to play golf this weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_Biner Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 All conclusions about precisely what happened are pure speculation, but I have to say that Hood/South Side was the only place in the Cascades I have ever seen teams of 5-8 short roped together on one line. I don't know if local guides do it, but I assumed they had a reason for it. (Sort of reminded me of old pictures of Mountaineer trips on Rainier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by scot'teryx: Well no shit Scotty. Maybe you should smoke some ALPINE INSPIRATION to help you think about that. Like maybe one dude self arrested and held the others or something? If they weren't roped up why did 7 of 8 fall in, maybe they all stopped to dig out their modems and laptops and make a summitpost at the same time and just happened to be over a hidden crevasse???? Dru, chill out dude Maybe you should start shooting heroin, it gets you much higher than the poser weed DRU: Posts: 4561 It seems like you got nothing else better to do in between flipping hamburgers at your minimum wage job isnt 'nwog' a racial slur? you got some aryan nations goin on at nwog.org or what? gapers like you that just got to spout off about some rescue somewhere and second guess should all just go fellate each other in a windowless room somewhere. kiss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted May 31, 2002 Author Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: isnt 'nwog' a racial slur? you got some aryan nations goin on at nwog.org or what? gapers like you that just got to spout off about some rescue somewhere and second guess should all just go fellate each other in a windowless room somewhere. kiss it Dru: Sure is nice that you can take such a tragedy and then in the same thread you can start shit with fellow posters, even if they are gapers such as myself. You need to grow up, you all around kick ass kind of guy. I wish I could be your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot'teryx Posted May 31, 2002 Author Share Posted May 31, 2002 3 have been reported as being deceased My condolences with the families and friends of the climbers. 3 of the other climbers have serious injuries. A bad week indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by scot'teryx: . I wish I could be your friendhans't anyone told scottereryx that drul is canadian?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by scot'teryx: quote:isnt 'nwog' a racial slur? you got some aryan nations goin on at nwog.org or what? gapers like you that just got to spout off about some rescue somewhere and second guess should all just go fellate each other in a windowless room somewhere. kiss it Dru: Sure is nice that you can take such a tragedy and then in the same thread you can start shit with fellow posters, even if they are gapers such as myself. You need to grow up, you all around kick ass kind of guy. I wish I could be your friend All my friends are "Cool" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Clarke Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Dru: Sure is nice that you can take such a tragedy and then in the same thread you can start shit with fellow posters, even if they are gapers such as myself. You need to grow up, you all around kick ass kind of guy. I wish I could be your friend[/QB] How true Scott - the guy is a lengend on his own keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 I just returned from that rescue. The scene up at the hogsback was surreal. Helicopter blades everywhere and an upside down carcass of an H60 lying at the base of a streak of debris down the left side. There are currently PJs bivied up high to secure the site. I don't know if you will be allowed to climb there tomorrow. The pilot must be commended. The crash could have killed many of us, but he veered off to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimrudy1970 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 The HH-60G helicopter and crew are not National Gaurd but rather Reservists. Many of these guys have prior active duty service and have many missions under their belt. The group from 939th are some of the best skilled rescuers both civilian and combat in the world! Just last week they plucked the deceased snowboarder of the Elliot Glacier and one of my closest friends is the individual that rescued the pilot from the shot down stealth fighter in Bosnia-So in short terms they have the skills to be performing this type of rescue. The news media often confuses the 939th rescue wing with the air ambulance company stationed in Salem. BIG DIFFERENCE! Although medically qualified to transport patients they do not have the capability to conduct difficult rescues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 How the fall occurred: (from the LA Times) quote: A team of six firefighters and their companions from the Tualatin Valley Fire and Rescue Department moved toward the summit. Assistant Fire Marshal Cleve Joiner, who had brought his 14-year-old son, Cole, along on the climb, said his group was about 800 feet short of the summit, climbing below two teams of six other people. Suddenly, the team at the top lost their footing, plowing down into the groups below them, taking a total of nine climbers into the crevasse, Joiner said. "It just happened within a matter of 20 or 30 seconds," he said. Joiner's son was one of the nine trapped in the crevasse. Joiner used his cell phone to call 911, summoning rescuers, though he was still unsure of the fate of his son. Whether these teams were roped together is unclear. It would seem they weren't using running belays (pickets, deadmen, etc.). Bummer they couldn't self arrest, but the slope was pretty steep (65 degrees quoted in the article), so they'd get going fast very quickly. The highest team just wipered off the lower people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacier_dup1 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 2 things - first - from my various health and safety and 1st aid trainings over the years, one of the things they always point out is that almost a third of injuries/fatalities in rescue situations are the rescuers - going in too fast, putting themselves into unstable positions, accumulating a chain of poor decisions - I don't know much about high altitude heli rescue, other than the generality that it is risky in and of itself. So while this is tragic, it is certainly not atypical, unfortunately. From the notes by other posters, it appears that the rescuers and crew were well qualfied for the situation, but that potentially something out of the heli crew's control occurred. Second - it looks like everyone up there could have benefitted from a belay lesson from Pete Schoening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juneriver Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: Bummer they couldn't self arrest, but the slope was pretty steep (65 degrees quoted in the article). How steep is that section? I haven't climbed it, but I don't think it looked like 65 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrashador Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Necronomicon: That thing shattered like a grenade...[/QB] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrashador Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Necronomicon: That thing shattered like a grenade...[/QB] The blades are designed to do that so as not to ginsu the crew in the bird. Just amazing the craft did not catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-rock Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Juneriver: quote:Originally posted by freeclimb9: Bummer they couldn't self arrest, but the slope was pretty steep (65 degrees quoted in the article). How steep is that section? I haven't climbed it, but I don't think it looked like 65 degrees. I think everyone already tried to hash this out in an old thread. Nothing on the Hogsback is over 45 degrees, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 The slope above the schrund is obviously steep enough for a person to slide down, but I don't think it's over 40 degrees at any point on the std. shot through the Pearly Gates. More like 35 degrees. Nothing like 65 degrees. The second to last time my wife and I climbed it, we watched a skier jump the schrund while smoking a cigarette. He stuck his landing and shooshed down to Devil's Kitchen. He was German. Obviously, a fall can occur anywhere, and happen very fast. Someone has to dig in hard and right away, which apparently did not occur here. Very sad situation indeed, but it sounds like it could have much worse. What a couple of weeks on Hood, Baker, and Rainier. Everyone be careful out there. John Sharp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDXClimber Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 see katu.com for video showing the climbers fall. above the bergshrund a rope team of 4 slipped and slid down, taking out a rope team of 2, then sliding further and taking out a rope team of 3. all slid quickly into bergshrund. see video clip "the fall..." on site: http://easylink.playstream.com/katu/020530tilkin2.wvx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 If it interests you, PMR has some photos from our point of view. Click here. [ 05-31-2002, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: iain ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchfest Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 According to the NFS site for Hood, the southside is shut down until the investigation is over. Currently there is no anticipated date, as one body still needs to be brought down. So if your going up this weekend, be prepared to descend the route you climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by iain: If it interests you, PMR has some photos from our point of view. Click here. Iain, Thanks for participating in the rescue. What do you think the snow conditions were like when the accident occured? This weekend I was with a group on Rainier practicing individual arrest and rope team arrest. The snow was soft and wet from rain such that it was near impossible for an individual to stop a rope if the fallen climber had momentum before the rope became taut. The arrester would simply be dragged down on a bed of sluffing snow. Not good. - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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