tvashtarkatena Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 [edited to add: "Bug", "Raindawg" had already outed his own self with a little book promotion, and he still hasn't answered my question why it would be inappropriate for Matt to repeat information he has already shared. So Off White...I did a little search on this board last night to find my so-called book promotions. What did I find? Years ago I quoted from a couple of them to address questions, including one about Machu Picchu and gave a title of an archaeology book where I describe such sites should anyone be interested. Book promotion???? Hardly. I never mentioned my own name or where I live. And if I had, it would have been my own choice, not that of "mattp" who has an axe to grind when it comes to certain topics. And I consider adding my town of residence to be malicious. And then there are those who ridicule my profession outside of climbing and the moderators must find it amusing despite the complaints. Whatever, dude. I'm driving around Tacoma right now with a cape in my back seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 While this isn't official policy it's pretty close that we will never require people to use their real names. First off, it's not realistically enforceable. Second, there are a litany of reasons to allow people to keep a certain level of privacy that far outweigh the perceived benefits of using peoples real names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I learned some time ago that I have nothing to gain by participating in any “who’s the jerk” discussion but, just to be clear, I’ll note that in nine years of this site I remember using two peoples real names in a fashion where they didn’t appreciate it. In both cases I did so as a poster and not with any special knowledge or power as a moderator, and I did so in a forum where I do not have moderator authority. In both cases I felt that these particular posters had long abused any right to privacy. I realize that some disagree and all are free to reach their own conclusions. I have long argued that we wouldn’t see near the level of mud slinging around here if people used their real names. We wouldn’t see near the level of entertainment and probably not near the same level of information exchange, either, but in any event there has never been any move toward eliminating the use of avatars. Is bolting a “special” topic? Yes. First of all, bolting threads probably more than any other climbing related threads around here generate a steady stream of personal attack and posturing, the occasional out and out lie, and just plain ugliness. These are important issues but ion my view are not very well handled on cc.com. Anyone who doubts that I think bolting ethics is an important topic can read my article in the Northwest Mountaineering Journal Link to Article on History of Ethics. As moderators we’ve tended to take a “hands off” approach, and I’m sure some like that, but many do not. Feck has an idea that we can discuss. Oh, and Bug: I did receive an actual and credible death threat once. I handled it as I felt appropriate and the offender was not banned over it. How would banning someone address the potential danger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 [edited to add: "Bug", "Raindawg" had already outed his own self with a little book promotion, and he still hasn't answered my question why it would be inappropriate for Matt to repeat information he has already shared. So Off White...I did a little search on this board last night to find my so-called book promotions. What did I find? Years ago I quoted from a couple of them to address questions, including one about Machu Picchu and gave a title of an archaeology book where I describe such sites should anyone be interested. Book promotion???? Hardly. I never mentioned my own name or where I live. And if I had, it would have been my own choice, not that of "mattp" who has an axe to grind when it comes to certain topics. And I consider adding my town of residence to be malicious. And then there are those who ridicule my profession outside of climbing and the moderators must find it amusing despite the complaints. Whatever, dude. http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/703143/Re_To_the_fathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh, and Bug: I did receive an actual and credible death threat once. I handled it as I felt appropriate and the offender was not banned over it. How would banning someone address the potential danger? Regardless, I would expect that a credible death threat against someone on this forum would result in banishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 My real name is NOLSe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh, and Bug: I did receive an actual and credible death threat once. I handled it as I felt appropriate and the offender was not banned over it. How would banning someone address the potential danger? OK counselor. Banning Hugh was not what I was after, it is just what happened to Capt Cavemen and at least one other person over threats of violence. At least that was what I was told by a source that apparently isn't very credible. Whatever. CYA. It seems to me that threats of violence should be discouraged at least. So far, only OW has acknowledged this in this case(of the moderators anyway). Hugh, you have apologized and I apologize I am dragging it up again. My issue is with the lack of moderation in such instances while other issues, like bolting discussions, are dealt with quickly. Seems like a sick sense of priorities. Don't know why I am surprised,....lawyers and money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Raindawg, I didn't mean "promotion" in a pejorative sense, would you prefer the term "citation"? I actually thought it was pretty cool and a good post you'd made. It absolutely made a connection between your online persona and your real world identity. I also don't find the ridicule of your profession very entertaining, but it is within the very loose boundary of social interaction that happens in Spray. You and I both know that the people who engage in that probably don't care one way or another about archaeology, all that matters is that they know where to find your goat. I think the fact that they do it suggests they find some the things you say and the way you say them to be offensive, but that might just be me. I think that Matt responded as he did was in response to your own attempt at axe grinding, but he can speak for himself. Are you suggesting there is something wrong with a person having an axe to grind, going back over the same topic time and again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Bug, here is an official policy. Threats are not tolerated at all. I have stated this many times in the past here. Maybe I need to add it to the FAQ. If there is a threat it needs to be brought to the attention of me and Porter and we will quickly deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I was assured by someone else that he was not a threat but that was after three days of wondering who he was and how dangerous he was. I did do a search of his posts to find out who he was. I also pm'd a few people to find out and finally found one person who knew who he was. Not one of the moderators or owners of this site offered any assistance in any form. Porter seemed to think it was pretty funny. Bug- Again I'm sorry if you thought I was threatening you. If you are worried about internet confrontation escalating to real world violence why do you want the cc.com administrators to give out peoples names and vitals to another cc.com member? I am against them giving out names at all. That is a matter of privacy best determined by the participant. But if a site is going to do it to one person, they should do it to all imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Bug, here is an official policy. Threats are not tolerated at all. I have stated this many times in the past here. Maybe I need to add it to the FAQ. If there is a threat it needs to be brought to the attention of me and Porter and we will quickly deal with it. I'll bring it to your attention next time. Thank you. Porter treated it like it was a joke that I was concerned. You might want to run that policy by him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Bug, I think you're talking apples and oranges. What happens with the bolting threads is that they immediately come up on mod's radar because historically they've been ugly unproductive insult factories. Depending on the inclination of whoever is babysitting the problem child, there may be an effort to delete inappropriate posts and manage behavior for awhile, but like a runaway infection, control attempts inevitably fail and sooner or later the whole thing gets shipped to Spray. If anyone gets a threat directed to them that makes them uncomfortable, don't wait for some mod to notice in the thread and come to the same conclusion as you, immediately notify one of the Administrators for the site, either Jon or Porter, and they'll handle it. If you're really afraid, this is a much more serious situation than polite conversation or thread traffic control. Reconciliation is preferable to banishment, and is much more effective in the long run. I'm glad that both you and Hugh continue to post here. I'm not inclined to discuss Cpt Caveman's banishment publicly, and certainly not before clearing the subject with the administration of the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Bug, I'm not interested in going back over old history from six or eight ears ago. Your facts are not quite correct but, really, I disagree with the whole premise of your argument here. We may have handled Hugh's threat toward you incorrectly but there really is not much unclear about cc.com's policy about threats. I also disagree with the basic suggestion that abuses in bolting threads are dealt with quickly. In large part they have never really been "dealt with" at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 As long as absolute anonymity is preserved, I think death threats could be really fun and should even be encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Porter treated it like it was a joke that I was concerned. You might want to run that policy by him again. And have him put a cover on his TPS reports too dammit! Doesn't he know we're doing that now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Bug, here is an official policy. Threats are not tolerated at all. I have stated this many times in the past here. Maybe I need to add it to the FAQ. If there is a threat it needs to be brought to the attention of me and Porter and we will quickly deal with it. I'll bring it to your attention next time. Thank you. Porter treated it like it was a joke that I was concerned. You might want to run that policy by him again. Every single one of the rest of us treated it exactly the same way. Get real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 My name is Craven Moorehead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwebster Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I use my real name, but there are times when I wish I had not. With an avatar, you can let your hair down, knowing you at least won't show up on the first page of results, if some one googles you. I try not to ever say anything that I would regret if my boss called me onto the carpet for an explanation. Which did happen once early on. Someone read something I wrote online, didn't like it and reported me. It was information taken out of context from an online journal, which is now password protected...because of that incident. I would have to agree that some of these violent conversations would be a lot tamer with real names. But I also agree that many people, myself included, would benefit from an anonymous avatar. If I really cared I'd start a new username...but it's sort of too late now. I'd be posting the same pictures of the same people I climb with...anyone could quickly figure it out. It's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 My name is Craven Moorehead. I thought it was Herbert West? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Michael Oxard. Nice to meet you. Call me Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Lots of class around here. Mosty low Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 We may have handled Hugh's threat toward you incorrectly but there really is not much unclear about cc.com's policy about threats. I don't see Porter chiming in on this claim. I also disagree with the basic suggestion that abuses in bolting threads are dealt with quickly. In large part they have never really been "dealt with" at all. They are moved to spray quickly instead of exercising some modicom of moderating. As I remember, the last thread was moved to spray because Lucky took a dump in it. (Everyone has to be good at something). It is not my site and you can do what you want. I'm guessing you (moderators who move the threads to spray and their supporters) will be remembered as being very short sighted. I choose to stand up for wilderness ethics regardless of what forum you think the discussion belongs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Can we move on now? This is really boring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rooster Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Who's going to run the background checks to make sure that the people are who they say they are? I've never trusted that rooster guy. I've always suspected that she's a hen. :tdown: HELLO! Listen, buddy- I really AM a Rooster! Did you ever hear a hen crow?!? Did you ever see a comb like mine on a hen? Didn't think so! All this talk about real names! Ok, fine, if you must know, my name isn't really "The Rooster", though sometimes the farmer refers to me that way (example: "Hey son, go feed the Rooster before I tan yer hide! Ma! Where's my supper? Do I have to kill the Rooster myself?" ...etc.). Everyone calls me Big Red, that's my real name. It's not like I'm hiding behind my nickname and crowing all the time...well, okay that's not entirely true. But do I have to get a new account now? I like this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 What are you going to do if we don't? Are you threatening us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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