Sport vs Trad

[rob]

Man, raindawg. You took him to school!!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Hey Super-Youngster with all them new-fangled thoughtless persectives on climbing! We'd discuss this all on the summit of Rainier...if you could get there.

 

 

I summitted Rainier already, dude. Nice try though.

 

The DC is still in if you want to make a run up there. I'm sure I'll pound your wrinkled ass into the volcanic ash. Just sayin'.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So, it's all good with ya'll if we pull photos from TR's and other websites, even work related ones, just for the purpose of making fun of each other? I know a number of people who don't post TR's to this site for fear of being made fun of, this sort of behavior is tasteless and boorish. Raindawg, for all that you bitterly complain when you're the subject of this sort of thing, you're the worst offender.

 

 

No man...when it's about climbing, it's fair game...when it comes to one's personal life, it shouldn't be on the table.

 

Look, gramps woke up from his nap!

 

Hey Super-Youngster with all them new-fangled thoughtless persectives on climbing! We'd discuss this all on the summit of Rainier...if you could get there.

 

 

oh, now we're including hiking in this discussion?

 

LOL.

 

I'm sure Raindawg can point us to some TRs or photos from his recent ascents of a technical route on Rainier. The dude is a climbing machine.

 

 

 

[Kimmo]

 

 

i doubt any of you would post this kind of sheit if'n you had a kid suffering from developmental disabilities.

that might be true, but that doesn't make it any less funny - if you can't laugh about the worst shit in life, how on earth are you going to keep from drinking the koolaid?

 

actually i think it makes it WAY less funny. it's not like one is making fun of one's own tits, or bald head or somesuch; one's mocking a defenseless, the most defenseless, kid for their own ends.

 

and using the old "oh you gotta laugh at the hard stuff" is a lame-ass defense here, and you're damn well smart enough to know it (cuz the cartoon's not even an example of that; far from it).

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

No man...when it's about climbing, it's fair game...when it comes to one's personal life, it shouldn't be on the table.

 

I was under the impression that on this site (Cascadeclimbers.com) pulling others trip reports and climbing pictures and putting them in spray to make fun of them was out of bounds. What gives me this impression was the tongue lashing Kevbone got from Porter when he did it not that long ago.

 

Yep, you got it right, Billcoe.

 

"Dawg" has a convenient position on what's "in bounds" for himself, since he has zero TRs. I don't have time to browse his 37 photos - I'm sure they are all his stock pics, rather than anything climbing-related.

 

 

 

 

[Off_White]

So, it's all good with ya'll if we pull photos from TR's and other websites, even work related ones, just for the purpose of making fun of each other? I know a number of people who don't post TR's to this site for fear of being made fun of, this sort of behavior is tasteless and boorish. Raindawg, for all that you bitterly complain when you're the subject of this sort of thing, you're the worst offender.

 

 

No man...when it's about climbing, it's fair game...when it comes to one's personal life, it shouldn't be on the table.

 

I was under the impression that on this site (Cascadeclimbers.com) pulling others trip reports and climbing pictures and putting them in spray to make fun of them was out of bounds. What gives me this impression was the tongue lashing Kevbone got from Porter when he did it not that long ago.

 

ps, did you read my last diatribe Don? I've read all of yours and think I have a good response to you.

 

You're exactly right Bill, though the one I recall was folks using Tvash's photo to make fun of his physique. He's pretty undentable, that one, but I was concerned about the effects on others. I don't care if it's about climbing or not, using people's TR photos to make fun of them in Spray is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You're exactly right Bill, though the one I recall was folks using Tvash's photo to make fun of his physique. He's pretty undentable, that one, but I was concerned about the effects on others. I don't care if it's about climbing or not, using people's TR photos to make fun of them in Spray is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY.

 

 

Off: link

 

Everyone who has done this has gotten spanked by a moderator, including for the incident you mention.

 

[Raindawg]

I don't care if it's about climbing or not, using people's TR photos to make fun of them in Spray is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY.

 

Set the rules, moderator...establish the boundaries...make an announcement.

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

"Dude....it's spray, man....anything goes!"

 

Maybe you should get rid of "Spray" altogether, but then there would be no place to dump the ethics "discussions".

[StevenSeagal]

Ok Raindawg then Is there a graverobbing website where we can say that you can't climb jack shit?

[Choada_Boy]

 

 

i doubt any of you would post this kind of sheit if'n you had a kid suffering from developmental disabilities.

that might be true, but that doesn't make it any less funny - if you can't laugh about the worst shit in life, how on earth are you going to keep from drinking the koolaid?

 

actually i think it makes it WAY less funny. it's not like one is making fun of one's own tits, or bald head or somesuch; one's mocking a defenseless, the most defenseless, kid for their own ends.

 

and using the old "oh you gotta laugh at the hard stuff" is a lame-ass defense here, and you're damn well smart enough to know it (cuz the cartoon's not even an example of that; far from it).

 

Defenseless? That kid just ran his ass off: The first rule of self defense.

[Off_White]

I don't care if it's about climbing or not, using people's TR photos to make fun of them in Spray is DEFINITELY NOT OKAY.

 

Set the rules, moderator...establish the boundaries...make an announcement.

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

"Dude....it's spray, man....anything goes!"

 

Maybe you should get rid of "Spray" altogether, but then there would be no place to dump the ethics "discussions".

 

The only reason anyone ridicules your profession is because you rise to that worm like a big old trout every time it gets tossed in the water. I sincerely doubt Choada or anyone else here has any problem with the study of ancient civilizations, it's just a proven way to poke you with a sharp stick. You respond with pokes at other's jobs as well, so clearly you must consider it all fair game. So no, making fun of someone's day job as a part of arguing is not a nice thing to do. You do things here that aren't nice also, and I know I do as well. Bug's observation that if you post more than twice in spray you're clearly an asshole is probably accurate, and I know he's including himself in that broad statement. We're all jerks sometimes, its just the way it goes. "Nice" is an unenforceable standard in this forum.

 

With regard to the abuse of TR pictures though, that has repercussions beyond Spray, and that is an issue. Some people don't like them, but for most people, the TR's on this site consistently come up as the best content to be found here. That's why we don't want people to spray in TR's or abuse TR photos. We want MORE people to post TR's, of all levels of stuff. Pope's biking TR that included you as a participant was a fine addition to the site, and I most certainly wouldn't stand for anyone to use photos from that TR to ridicule you or Pope.

 

Also, it's generally recognized that civil behavior around here includes removing a photo of someone if the subject of that photo asks you to do so. You've asked me to take down a picture of you from your day job that I used without permission, and I complied. Its come up for other people too, and it usually works out without bringing in any mods. I would hope that would be the case in this thread too.

 

Anyway, there's your announcement from the moderator about how I view these sorts of things. If anyone wants to have a protracted discussion about this, let me know and I'll spawn this off as a separate thread.

 

 

[Raindawg]

Ok Raindawg then Is there a graverobbing website where we can say that you can't climb jack shit?

 

[ivan]

Set the rules, moderator...establish the boundaries...make an announcement.

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

"Dude....it's spray, man....anything goes!"

 

Maybe you should get rid of "Spray" altogether, but then there would be no place to dump the ethics "discussions".

but the thing is, you are a lunatic - it's kinda hard to defend the crazy, no?

 

my example, should you actually care to read this, is the exact quote of mine you took above - "grave robber" - the post you took that from literally said your profession was not in question, that i and others in fact actually understand and respect the profession of archaeology (an anecdote i omitted in that thread, but now add - my favorite arch professor was a guy named Jim Deetz - his shit about the meaning of house shapes in the se usa was a bit beyond me, but man he was captivating to listen to - my favorite trick of his, one i've longed to reproduce as a teacher but am sadly restricted from was this; he'd often do an entire lecture w/ a cig in his mouth, talking non-stop, w/ a match in his hand - often he'd light the match and threaten the smoke, but never once did he light it - it was fucking mesmerizing and he was a lively and personable and fascinating archeologist and teacher and i can't see an iota of him in you so quit hiding behind him, you phd-wannabe-troglodyte!)

[Kimmo]

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

wtf? seriously, are you insane, as ivan says? you ARE a grave-robber: you go and dig up people's remains and cart them off for your own purposes ("well-published" author, teaching, etc). you rilly think the egyptians would be down with your gig?

 

cuckoo, cuckoo. Get siked about sport-climbing and forget about the dead bodies, willya?

[StevenSeagal]

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

wtf? seriously, are you insane, as ivan says? you ARE a grave-robber: you go and dig up people's remains and cart them off for your own purposes ("well-published" author, teaching, etc). you rilly think the egyptians would be down with your gig?

 

cuckoo, cuckoo. Get siked about sport-climbing and forget about the dead bodies, willya?

 

:lmao: :lmao:

[Raindawg]

Set the rules, moderator...establish the boundaries...make an announcement.

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

"Dude....it's spray, man....anything goes!"

 

Maybe you should get rid of "Spray" altogether, but then there would be no place to dump the ethics "discussions".

but the thing is, you are a lunatic - it's kinda hard to defend the crazy, no?

 

my example, should you actually care to read this, is the exact quote of mine you took above - "grave robber" - the post you took that from literally said your profession was not in question, that i and others in fact actually understand and respect the profession of archaeology (an anecdote i omitted in that thread, but now add - my favorite arch professor was a guy named Jim Deetz - his shit about the meaning of house shapes in the se usa was a bit beyond me, but man he was captivating to listen to - my favorite trick of his, one i've longed to reproduce as a teacher but am sadly restricted from was this; he'd often do an entire lecture w/ a cig in his mouth, talking non-stop, w/ a match in his hand - often he'd light the match and threaten the smoke, but never once did he light it - it was fucking mesmerizing and he was a lively and personable and fascinating archeologist and teacher and i can't see an iota of him in you so quit hiding behind him, you phd-wannabe-troglodyte!)

 

You talk like that and teach school children?????

I never met Deetz but I'm aware of his work...you were probably lucky to have him as a professor.

I ain't Deetz and I'm not hiding behind him...I not even sure what that means. Is that some sort of insult??? I wouldn't be able to pick him out in a crowd and I don't even know if he's still alive. I've got my own gig and I do quite well.

Ph.D.-wannabee? I've had mine for 21 years now, how 'bout you?

I suggest you drop it, and if you want to talk about sport/trad/clean climbing, address the topic like so many haven't.

And speakin' of professors with cigarettes, I knew a philosophy professor who always had a cigarette in his hand and occasionally tried to write on the chalk board with it or would accidentally put a piece of chalk in his mouth. Good stuff.

When the students would bitch about him smoking in class, he'd say, "how do you like my cologne? It's called L'eau du Marlboro."

 

[Raindawg]

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

wtf? seriously, are you insane, as ivan says? you ARE a grave-robber: you go and dig up people's remains and cart them off for your own purposes ("well-published" author, teaching, etc). you rilly think the egyptians would be down with your gig?

 

cuckoo, cuckoo. Get siked about sport-climbing and forget about the dead bodies, willya?

 

- done with you...

 

[Raindawg]

 

And while you're at it, you might want to add something about why it's apparently O.K. to ridicule my profession, e.g. call me a "grave robber", on a climbing web-site.

 

wtf? seriously, are you insane, as ivan says? you ARE a grave-robber: you go and dig up people's remains and cart them off for your own purposes ("well-published" author, teaching, etc). you rilly think the egyptians would be down with your gig?

 

cuckoo, cuckoo. Get siked about sport-climbing and forget about the dead bodies, willya?

 

:lmao: :lmao:

 

- done with you

 

[Kimmo]

done with you...

 

that's it, donald, hide yer head in your ummm sand.

 

and if that doesn't work?

 

"I'm not playing with YOU anymore!"

 

[Kimmo]

now it's off to try my siiiiick uber-proj dude. wish me luck!

[pope]

done with you...

 

that's it, donald, hide yer head in your ummm sand.

 

and if that doesn't work?

 

"I'm not playing with YOU anymore!"

 

 

Come to think of it, I do remember a guy who called himself Kimmo who would show up at the UW rock and fall off my problems. But the Kimmo I remember never would have degraded himself by joining the mob attacking my friend and his profession. He would have been tempted, exhausted from the effort of defending sport climbing for 25 pages, feeling threatened by the realization that his favorite recreation equates to a manifest destiny whereby garbage is distributed to every square inch of steep rock on this planet. But.....the Kimmo I remember would have held himself to a higher standard.

 

The Kimmo I remember would have been disgusted by this behavior, and similarly with the offensive Special Olympics poster a few pages back. Oh....hey.....maybe this is the guy I remember. Ever figure out how to do the Razor without bumping your right hand at the crux? Anyway, most of the guys who participate in this thread aren't as classy as you are (or once were). You should apologize.

[akhalteke]

done with you...

 

that's it, donald, hide yer head in your ummm sand.

 

and if that doesn't work?

 

"I'm not playing with YOU anymore!"

 

 

Come to think of it, I do remember a guy who called himself Kimmo who would show up at the UW rock and fall off my problems. But the Kimmo I remember never would have degraded himself by joining the mob attacking my friend and his profession. He would have been tempted, exhausted from the effort of defending sport climbing for 25 pages, feeling threatened by the realization that his favorite recreation equates to a manifest destiny whereby garbage is distributed to every square inch of steep rock on this planet. But.....the Kimmo I remember would have held himself to a higher standard.

 

The Kimmo I remember would have been disgusted by this behavior, and similarly with the offensive Special Olympics poster a few pages back. Oh....hey.....maybe this is the guy I remember. Ever figure out how to do the Razor without bumping your right hand at the crux? Anyway, most of the guys who participate in this thread aren't as classy as you are (or once were). You should apologize.

Kimmo is enjoying his/her new popularity in the "in-club" of the misfits. I suppose popularity is indeed relative.

 

I have climbed with many on this board and their allegiances and beliefs immediately change with present company. Sooo worried with fitting in and doing the right thing.

 

I have more respect for those that stick to their guns despite whether my beliefs coincide with theirs. I remember a time when "raindawg and pope" were not ostracized; when the jabs here were much more friendly and this place wasn't like a high school clique for social regects.

 

This place has turned into a cess pool and I merely come back occasionally to stir the shit and see if anything worth-while fell in the port-o-let.

[RuMR]

whatever fenceshitter...

[AlpineK]

Could we please talk about some serious issues that are human caused in the NW.

 

First introduced to North America during

colonial times as an ornamental ground cover

(Wyman 1969), English ivy remains a staple of

the horticultural industry. The features that make

ivy a reliable choice for landscaping are also those

that make it a troublesome invader: aggressive

vegetative spread and tolerance of a variety of

light conditions (Thomas 1980). In addition,

ivy’s fruits are attractive to dispersers (primarily

birds), facilitating its spread from residential to

wilderness areas (Reichard 2000). In its native

forests, ivy proliferates in light gaps (Beekman

1980, Schnitzler 1995), and this may be why

communities with deciduous or mixed canopies

appear to be particularly susceptible to ivy invasions

(Papanikolas 1996, Reichard 2000).

To date, there are no published studies of the

effects of English ivy on forest communities in

the Pacific Northwest. Thomas (1980, 1998)

has examined ivy invasions in eastern deciduous

forests, where native vines were already a

prominent feature of these communities (Teramura

et al. 1991). Despite a history of interacting

with native vines, herbaceous vegetation cover,

tree seedling survival and tree longevity showed

marked declines in the presence of English ivy

(Thomas 1980). Identifying these sorts of impacts

will be critical for determining both whether an

invader such as ivy warrants difficult and costly

control efforts (Parker et al. 1999, D’Antonio and

Meerson 2002), and whether its commercial sale

should be limited (Baskin 2002).

 

English Ivy

 

[img:center]http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:Vr4-7ocXLtjAnM:http://smaydaenvironmental.com/photos/biological/Noxious-Weed-Management-Plans/English%2520Ivy%2520on%2520alder%2520and%2520maple.jpg[/img]

 

Maybe in 50 years we can come back to bolts. Wait your turn!

[akhalteke]

whatever fenceshitter...

 

A kind rib from everyone's favorite portly midget! Privetik Lapussik!