tomtom Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Well 'climbers' have already stolen at least 40 bolt hangers from the sides of the Mountaineers Building in Magnuson Park. This requires a little more effort than unclipping a few draws. Maybe 'climber ethics' is an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric8 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 It sounds like the stolen draws were from aborigine which is a 5.11 something right? The draws are still on the harder bits above? Exactly. I know at least 10 people who have redpointed extensions to abo. and none of them left draws up over night. Its seems that if you are working the 13d or even the 12c you could just put the draws up on your first trip up for the day and take them down on the way down at the end of the day. In general you don't see fixed draws on anything easier than 5.12 usually not anything easier than 12C. Little Si has routes that have fixed draws on them and abo isn't one of them. Again sucks someone took your draws it just not that surprising I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Brett, not a one of em' could redpoint Porn Star. Totally illrelevant to the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 i'm just being a jackass, bill. Of course it's not cool to take someone's shit. I was just in a bad mood because of the tone of the original post. No offense Nah it's all good Rob, I understand. From my viewpoint, I have some wide gear currently loaned out to that friend who had his rack stolen from the base of El Cap (so he can do some wide Indian Creek climbs). In the back of my head I have some concerns that my 3 or 4 #6 cams and larger big bros might not come home to papa if someone sees them in my friends car. He should be back now though, so they'll come home soon. I know this guys 110 percent honest, (not that I have any wide projects to do, but I found that with the gear I hate it less than I use to) and a father just worry's about his kids when they're away. Bret here probably just feels the same way about his draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The law on "booty" in Washington: RCW 63.21.010 (1) Any person who finds property that is not unlawful to possess, the owner of which is unknown, and who wishes to claim the found property, shall: (a) Within seven days of the finding acquire a signed statement setting forth an appraisal of the current market value of the property prepared by a qualified person engaged in buying or selling like items or by a district court judge, unless the found property is cash; and (b) Within seven days report the find of property and surrender, if requested, the property and a copy of the evidence of the value of the property to the chief law enforcement officer, or his or her designated representative, of the governmental entity where the property was found, and serve written notice upon the officer of the finder's intent to claim the property if the owner does not make out his or her right to it under this chapter. (2) Within thirty days of the report the governmental entity shall cause notice of the finding to be published at least once a week for two successive weeks in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where the property was found, unless the appraised value of the property is less than the cost of publishing notice. If the value is less than the cost of publishing notice, the governmental entity may cause notice to be posted or published in other media or formats that do not incur expense to the governmental entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrogdortheBurninator Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Solution: leave the draws on pron star, clean the draws on Abo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTM Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 i was beginning to think i was the only one thinking this, troggie... brett, if you do plan on replacing some of the old fixed draws out there, i'd be happy to donate a few of mine to the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Why not "project" on top rope until you can climb it, then lead it? Seems pointless to leave draws on the wall. you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. This particular route is set up to have long draws on it...and no, it'd be a little difficult to walk around the top and drop a rope on it... I luv the fuckin' peanut gallery on cc.com... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 its very common these days for very popular harder route to have fixed draws on them. Makes sense. When a lead is over my head, I prefer to have pre-placed gear, too. shut up rob, and go pinkpoint some mossy piece of shit 5.8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 What is this thread about again? Gawd, I wish Raindawg was here I, for one, don't miss that fossilized turd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 people should leave other peoples shit alone regardless of their spelling habits and not steal others stuff IMO. period. But people shouldn't abuse that by leaving their shit lying (laying?) around everywhere. I know someone who had their entire rack stolen by a person who shared your viewpoint when they left it at the base of an El Cap route and went back to the car to get a 2nd load. You think thats right? Remind me the next time you fire a multipitch route and leave a pack with shoes and extra gear at the base so I can help clean up your shit and donate it to someone who has had their stuff stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 i am aware that the cliff doesnt belong to me, but the equipment does. im sorry if i came off a little hard on the post but all i was trying to do was make a statement that steeling a whole climbs worth of draws isnt cool. my bad I think its lame someone took your draws....but its not stealing if you left your gear at the wall on purpose. it is stealing and if i caught you with my stuff, i'd kick your ass...end of story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) and it is extremely common to leave fixed draws on hard sport routes. Maybe this is the problem. Aborogine isn't a hard sport climb. he's not talking about aborigine, dumb fokk...he could climb aborigine in rollerskates, one handed... and even if he was, the principle is the same... Edited April 23, 2009 by RuMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMcJizzy Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 it is stealing and if i caught you with my stuff, i'd kick your ass...end of story... And if they were 4'8", and weighed 76 pounds, you might stand a chance. Unless they decided to run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiente Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Taking draws off a sport route is bad form and stealing. If you see several draws on a route it is obvious that the person didn't leave them there as a bail bineer. if the draws have been up all year and becoming worn, by all means take them down and stack them on ground next to the route. I would agree that fixed draws are sort of an eye-sore and should be used sparingly only for routes that is being actively projected at sport crag. Also, just because you hiked a route with fixed draws doesn't mean you get to steal the draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 and it is extremely common to leave fixed draws on hard sport routes. Maybe this is the problem. Aborogine isn't a hard sport climb. he's not talking about aborigine, dumb fokk...he could climb aborigine in rollerskates, one handed... and even if he was, the principle is the same... I didn't mean to offend your little boi friend. Seems like most people didn't read the original post and realize the draws were on Abo not his wicked hard proj. The principle is not the same. If I find a cam someone bailed off of on some obscure 5.10, you're saying I don't have the right to booty it? Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankstoneline Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 and it is extremely common to leave fixed draws on hard sport routes. Maybe this is the problem. Aborogine isn't a hard sport climb. he's not talking about aborigine, dumb fokk...he could climb aborigine in rollerskates, one handed... and even if he was, the principle is the same... i am aware that the cliff doesnt belong to me, but the equipment does. im sorry if i came off a little hard on the post but all i was trying to do was make a statement that steeling a whole climbs worth of draws isnt cool. my bad I think its lame someone took your draws....but its not stealing if you left your gear at the wall on purpose. it is stealing and if i caught you with my stuff, i'd kick your ass...end of story... Uh oh, the gloves are off! Internet thuggery is pretty cool these days huh? Also, pictures of one handed rollerskate ascent or you're doing nothing but firing off fallacies and your arguments hold no water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Just another "fossilized turd" with no dog in the fight but I do have an observation. Aborigine isn't that hard by even '80s standards at 5.11. Draws left there over night were up for grabs as booty by any standard. "someone climbed ABORIGINE and took all of my draws off of the climb.....keep and eye out for five or six older extended metolius draws. two of the draws stolen were petzl sponsor draws so not many people have them. ....to whoever took these draws off of ABORIGINE. No disrespect intended ot either the botty hauler or Mr. Johnson. But we are talking 5 or 6 slings and the accompaning biners. (if they were mine I'd actually know the number missing) At least two of them were "sponsored draws". In the grand scheme of things not that much money even for a "non-working" climber. For someone that is at least particially sponsored and willing to freeely replace old gear on the wall not much of a ding in the pocket book. Our shit being ripped from the base of a climb or out of a car is one thing, leaving your gear hanging on MODERATE climbs by sport standards is another. Just an FYI but if I had seen a half dozen draws hanging on a moderate 5.11, mid week, I might have taken the time myself to hang my way up the thing just for the fun and the free booty. But I don't score booty these days. Bad Karma, IMO. I've had enough stuff ripped off over the years. Found a bunch as well. With the ability to communicate via the Internet these days everyone seems to think what they "leave" should be returned. I've picked up 3 sets of leashless tools this winter at rap stations. Gave them back when I could. But if someone started bitching about "loosing" them and DEMANDED them back I'd sooner give them away to a good home. You'd have to be kinda a dumb ass to leave them there in the first place. My guess is the poor bastard that did score your gear had no clue why you left it but I bet he didn't think it intentional. Bitching about it here might seem like an educational opportunity for some. The real lesson for me anyway is, don't be leaving your shit on "easy" climbs. Some climbers (looks like 50% from this thread) seem to think anything not locked up, nailed down and with a Rottweiler guarding it as free for the taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Uh oh, the gloves are off! Naah. This is pretty light weight stuff. Just your standard billigerent midget with Tourettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevino Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hard to believe no one has brought this up.. stolen draws at vantage followed of course by this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 When you put the draws back on Abo I'll gladly clip them and leave them there after the redpoint. The bolt left of the two finger pocket at the lower crux is a pain in the arse to clip. Wish they'd put it to the right of that pocket...maybe I just need to train harder, find a better sequence, or wear my roller skates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankstoneline Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 When you put the draws back on Abo I'll gladly clip them and leave them there after the redpoint. The bolt left of the two finger pocket at the lower crux is a pain in the arse to clip. Wish they'd put it to the right of that pocket...maybe I just need to train harder, find a better sequence, or wear my roller skates. Roller skates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) it is stealing and if i caught you with my stuff, i'd kick your ass...end of story... And if they were 4'8", and weighed 76 pounds, you might stand a chance. Unless they decided to run away. Whatever Mark...bats rule...and its 5'-0" and 200lbs...get your facts straight... Edited April 23, 2009 by RuMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 and it is extremely common to leave fixed draws on hard sport routes. Maybe this is the problem. Aborogine isn't a hard sport climb. he's not talking about aborigine, dumb fokk...he could climb aborigine in rollerskates, one handed... and even if he was, the principle is the same... I didn't mean to offend your little boi friend. Seems like most people didn't read the original post and realize the draws were on Abo not his wicked hard proj. The principle is not the same. If I find a cam someone bailed off of on some obscure 5.10, you're saying I don't have the right to booty it? Whatever. whatever douchebag...are you saying he bailed? Bail gear is fair game...i don't think you're stupid enough to assume that multiple qd's are "bail" gear, or are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Until Kevino posted the link I guess I didn't realise just how common it was to have draws ripped off projects. Bad Karma. But I also wonder just how many people look at it as stealing? You leave your gear on the rock and for most I suspect it is fair game, booty. If you are not projecting stuff yourself and understand the need for fixed gear it is even easier to label it booty. Leave gear on a 5.7 and you know the result. I don't see any different result if you leave gear on a 5.11 or a 5.13 for that matter, if the gear is easy to get to. On a serious note and as a matter of record I want everyone to know the rope I left on Asguard this winter is a project rope and not booty. If you beat me to it I would expect it to be returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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