Blackwater Question

[Braydon]

Okay this is kinda a serious question so lets try to keep this a non biased, spray free (even though its the spray forum) thread.

 

I've been curious, will Obama cut the government deal with Blackwater? If not will people who work for BW still get payed as much?

[Doug]

Usually the DoD and State Department are free to spend their appropriations as they see fit. FWIW, Bush signed the latest Defense Appropriations bill with a caveat that it be concurred by the next president.

[olyclimber]

Blackwater has some smart people. They have diversified. Heck, I think they were even offering their services to the Russians with the pirated ship that had weapons on it.

 

They are a private company, so the DoD or State doesn't set their salaries. Of course losing a contract could impact them just like any other company.

 

There are those here that can speak more authoritatively about the company, but I'm pretty sure all I say above is accurate.

[Dane]

Blackwater is a private corp with deep "insights" into many governmental venues, in many countries besides are own. Simply because the owner, most employees and all the management @ Blackwater are ex military with long and multiple contacts with all the players.

 

PMC's pay won't be going down (at least in the near future) and they won't be going away in your life time.

 

I suspect the pay scales (assuming equal skills) will change over time depending on demand and the local workig environment. But that could mean wages going up, just as likely as going down. But short term the contracts with Blackwater, CACI, Dyna Corp, Aegis, Haliburton or the dozens of other contractors aren't likely going to be changed or negated by Obama nor will he want to with Blackwater.

 

Blackwater adds additional cover for DSS (U.S. Diplomatic Security Service) for a reason. Guys now working for Blackwater have trained DSS for years, while doing tier one anti terrorist jobs in our military branches. Our government trusts ALL of our diplomats to those same people and their skills just for that reason.

The US military puts well over a million dollars into each spec op soldier just to get them started in their military careers. Blackwater is a perfect example of the US goverment taking advantage of that original investment.

 

Look here for more info:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_contractor

 

 

[0321recon]

Blackwater is likely to secure more contracts; just like all the others. Pay is going down and that happens over time. I worked in Iraq this year as an International Police Adviser at the Al Anbar Police Academy in Habbaniyah and at Tikrit and along the Syrian border near Sinjar (Tal Afar). Blackwater, MPRI, and Dyn are all key players and highly valued.

 

 

[Serenity]

With the Iraqi SOFA going into place soon, as well as limited jurisdiction over PMC's agreed upon in Iraq, BW in particular has indicated it's eventual withdrawal from doing any type of work that might put it's people in harms way. In short BW is going to be gradually leaving Iraq. Their business plan has changed to reflect the changing situations.

 

Furthermore, the whole paradigm of DoD/DSS contractors is evolving, and has been for a few years now. Currently DoD contractors are subject to UCMJ, and DSS contractors in some cases are subject to local laws and jurisdiction. All DSS contractors have always been under the RSO's overall control at various embassies. Accountability has increased, as well as oversight.

 

Pay has been declining for quite some time, and there is no guarantee of work for anyone, anywhere. However, the fact remains that despite a presidential change, that enemies of the United States are still flexing, and moving to position. PMC's will continue to play their part in the overall scheme while providing support and SME expertise to the various agencies that employ them.

 

[Braydon]

Thanks guys. Seeeeee, we can have a mature, adult like conversation.

 

Are PMC's going to stay in Afghanistan though? If not what type of work will PMC's be doing?

[mkporwit]

Sounds like you're doing research for a term paper

[Jens]

Didn't one of our frequent cc.com posters in the early days of the site work for them?

[Hugh Conway]

Didn't one of our frequent cc.com posters in the early days of the site work for them?

 

snobbishly out of touch

[Serenity]

Didn't one of our frequent cc.com posters in the early days of the site work for them?

 

snobbishly out of touch

 

Who are you referring to?

 

[img:center]http://photos1.blogger.com/img/24/2081/640/Stars_Stripes.jpg[/img]

[Serenity]

Thanks guys. Seeeeee, we can have a mature, adult like conversation.

 

Are PMC's going to stay in Afghanistan though? If not what type of work will PMC's be doing?

 

Yes, PMC's will stay in Afghanistan for the foreseeable future. IC's have played pivotal roles in all aspects of the situation in Afghanistan.

 

Currently IC's are seeing an upsurge of anti-piracy work related to Somalia and other oceanic regions.

[JosephH]

IC's have played pivotal roles in all aspects of the situation in Afghanistan.

 

And will be so as long as we continue to misapply our military might as badly as we have for the past five years...

 

 

[Serenity]

Doing DA work as an ODA has gone out of vogue. They are returning to more traditional FID.

 

As far as doing EP protective work, this was NEVER a military occupational speciality.

 

It was William Clinton who emasculated the intelligence services, and left a huge vaccum.

 

We've had this conversation previously. I do not care to revisit it. If you think you can make a difference Joseph get off the sideline and get back to work. See you in the trenchline.

[rob]

what about doing DHAT work for the HGNAA? Sometimes I do EPN for for CNN when NBC is out of touch with ABC's department of TNT.

 

Just saying.

[akhalteke]

DA= Direct Action

 

ODA= Operational Detachment Alpha (A-team)

 

 

 

[JosephH]

The rise and use of PMC's is not about individuals 'making a difference' - they are a symptom of our nation making extremely poor choices around how we maintain, develop, and exert our military might. Eisenhower would view them as a pustule and advanced sign of just how far this particular disease has spread.

 

As far as pay goes - under the same operative mentality that spun the PMC's up to begin with - outsourcing rapidly becomes the rote path to maintaining an attractive balance sheet. Loyalty is not these guys stock-in-trade; in fact, I'd say the guys signing these big contracts checked that at the clubhouse door long ago.

[ashw_justin]

(I am totally unqualified to say anything knowledgeable about this business, but I just read See No Evil and Highway to Hell which has made me curious enough to naively think and post about it.)

 

I am also curious about the economic ramifications of the private military contracting industry. Particularly I am curious about how this industry reacts to fluctuations in the market for its services, and whether or not we need to be wary of the consequences.

 

As far as I understand, the decade has been economically bright for this business. The private military contracting industry has hugely expanded, and I'm sure that today's clients are getting their money's worth. But what happens to the much increased private security workforce if the US and US interests "decide" (either politically or economically) that they no longer need/want the services of say 4 out of 5 of them in the future? Do most of these guys have a plan B for employment, and what is the nature of this plan?

 

To be a bit cynical, what is the likelihood that a significant increase in guns for hire in the world, their interest in continuing this line of work, and their "free agent" status, may result in future situations in which some of them are desperate enough for work that loyalty, conscience, and/or the standards of conduct suffer? Is it possible that some fraction of them may actually (knowingly or unknowingly) end up acting against US government or US public interests, somewhere in the world, because of their need to make a living in their chosen line of work? I admit that I may be casting a pessimistic, paranoid, and unlikely scenario, but I hope it is a fair enough question.

 

One can certainly argue that the general personality of the American military contractor has far too much integrity and is far to patriotic and loyal to US and coalition interests to allow this to happen. But I wonder if these feelings could change if/when the government "turns their back" on them legally and economically, and what the reaction might be. If by the nature of private contracting itself, the government has no special obligation to this workforce, then to what extent do these guys start to reconsider their "special obligation" of loyalty and accountability to the government?

 

In short, I'm not trying to make any kind of moral judgment against private contractors (that would belong in a different thread), but I wonder if the economics of private contracting will have special negative consequences on a (potential) downside of a boom in the industry.

 

It is also possible that if the hostilities are far from over then the industry will thrive, and that this workforce will not have to make "tough economic choices" anytime soon.

[tvashtarkatena]

Ah, the military. 'nyms are sooo kewl, 'specially when you throw them out there to the 'civies.

 

My personal favorite: BOHICA (a description of the American taxpayer when they get the bill from companies like Blackwater).

Edited November 6, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[Serenity]

Ah, the military. 'nyms are sooo kewl, 'specially when you throw them out there to the 'civies.

 

Shut your cock-holster asshole. You're about the biggest fucking blowhard pussy this website has ever seen.[img:center]http://www.ascensionist.com/PhotoPost/data/511/Photo_41.jpg[/img]

 

 

 

 

[Serenity]

As for more serious questions being raised, which deserve an honest response.

 

Ecomomically everyone has to tread their own waters. The same applies to a professional football player, or a musician. Live like a rock star, prepare to burn out and fade away. Live like a budget conscience individual, and when your house falls down you can rebuild. Or move onto greener pastures.

 

There are some HUGE misconceptions about this industry, in particular the wage scheme, and the reasons behind it.

 

No one seems to throw that big of a fit when a pro soccer player in his rookie year, gets a multi million dollar salary for kicking around a ball. However take a guy who served his country in the system for 20 years, retires, and is called forth in time of need (by the same governmental system) to utilize his ample and specialized skills, pay him a 6 figure salary, and all the sudden he's a mercenary. How does that make sense to some of you? In most cases the military has retired that guy, or he was medically unfit due to injury incurred on active duty. I have worked with several guys who were involved in serious parachuting accidents, who were stronger and more fit than a lot of the NG guys I've seen. They went to the system that allowed them to work and participate.

 

Joseph, what comparison can you make to the current situation to the 40's war against global fascism? Are people back home being rationed? Are people standing in line to sign up? No, there are dwindling numbers of people in our 'great' nation who are willing to stand up and get into the thin line, so concessions had to be made.

 

I ran into a guy who was in his 50's standing at one of the most dangerous ECP (Oh sorry assclown Pat, did I say a big word you didn't understand?). He was retired, had no money issues, just chose to serve. In the 1940's that position would have been manned by a guy in his mid twenties who initially stood in line to get in period.

[ashw_justin]

Thanks, I guess the root of my question is this idea of thousands of highly efficient security(+) professionals treading water, or seeking greener pastures. I mean these don't strike me as the kind of guys that are going to go sell girl scout cookies if/when the current conflict(s) settle down. I suppose I'll just have to trust that they'll all know how to keep themselves out of trouble.

 

If anything, I would worry about the guys on the ground being underpaid, considering the risks and commitments involved. Private industries in general aren't exactly designed to shower their profits onto the worker bees, and as the contract money dries up, I would guess it would get even harder to earn a wage that befits the work.

[prole]

You dumbshits need to be put out of work. You want to "make a difference", go be a teacher or work in a homeless shelter or something. Nah, that's not "badass" enough, no guns n' shit. Like I said before, you guys are just culturally disposed to get off on violence and fascistic notions of "honor" and "sacrifice". If you lived in other historical periods, you'd just as likely be signing up for Napoleon's armies, Nicaraguan death squads, or the Wehrmacht. If you really believed in what you were doing, you guys wouldn't be bending over backwards to show us all what great humanitarians you are instead of what great killers you are. Guess that's a sign that the rest of humanity is growing up. Why don't you join us?

[pc313]

In 1984 the movie UNDER FIRE was releast and coverd guns for hire and now its big money,in the near future it will be ROBOTS for hire and most of these bad ass blackwater dudes will be flipping burgers,or mall security cops at minimum wage!

Edited November 7, 2008 by pc313

[pc313]

Ah, the military. 'nyms are sooo kewl, 'specially when you throw them out there to the 'civies.

 

Shut your cock-holster asshole. You're about the biggest fucking blowhard pussy this website has ever seen.[img:center]http://www.ascensionist.com/PhotoPost/data/511/Photo_41.jpg[/img]

 

Sounds like someone didn't get his re-up bonus!!