awesome!

[Fairweather]

Fuck; I hate that shit.

Edited March 11, 2008 by Fairweather

[sexual_chocolate]

as well as watching any olympic sporting event...you know, they don't rehearse or train at all...incredibly talented, aren't they??

 

there's nothing inherently "human" or "natural" about responding in a particular way to a feat deemed "impressive"; it's a learned, calibrated response based on a shared sense of "values", a values of "appreciation".

 

as such, it's an artifice of sorts, a tangential sublimation of of of.... loneliness? separation anxiety? in order to fit the established patterns of communality.

 

having said that, i take back what i said about the creative, or non-creative, aspects of climb "rehearsal": once it ceases to be a "creative" act, it no longer carries with it the possibility of learning, so any "rehearsed" climb that leads to conventional success (or non-conventional) is inherently and neccessarily, by definition, "creative".

dude...you need to lay off the peyote...

 

you have obviously never visited the Temple of the Peyote Gods....

[Raindawg]

What gets me is that you continue to claim, like an underfed dog chained to a clothesline, how environmentally unfriendly sport climbing is. Really? I was always of the opinion that rock gyms and sport climbing areas 'soak up' the majority of the climbing population, which means they're not tramping around much more environmentally sensitive areas above the treeline. It concentrates whatever impact does occur tiny areas that are, by definition, mostly made of rock, and that are heavily managed anyway. So I call bullsh*t on your oft spouted theory, Doctor. Sport climbing has been good for vast majority of the wilderness environment.

 

What gets me, is apart from having a foul mouth, you clearly don't understand the issues. You seem to assume that "sport climbers" would all be flocking to the mountains if they didn't have their little metallic trails to keep them occupied. For the greater masses and the many bastard offspring of the gyms/nurseries, "sport-climbing" is appealing because of its convenience: a short learning curve, slack rules, a minimum of gear and not much danger = instant gratification.

 

Mountaineering, and trad climbing to some extent is the opposite.

 

The environmentally unfriendly part comes with the attitude that "sport-climbers" have the right to install artificial permanent alterations to the landscape whenever and wherever they please. In my opinion, people should strive to climb "clean" and bolts should be RARE. You'd think that by now outdoor-oriented folks like climbers would understand the "leave little trace" philosophy but "sport-climbers" seem to be one of the worst offenders. You might (maybe) pick up your granola bar wrappers, but you leave a permanent mess of metal affixed the crags.

 

That "sport-climbing" distracts a few people from going into the wilderness is merely a curious side-benefit; I'd prefer they stop the bolting, a practice which is creeping into the wilderness.

 

By the way, is this true: that you "started climbing just two or three years ago"?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The concert pianist perfects not only their own being, but brightens the world for others through the expression of their music. Climbing is an almost purely selfish endeavor.

 

I don't buy that completely.

 

How about an Olympic athlete - especially in a sport not generally watched or appreciated so much? Hundreds of hours of training for a performance at an Olympic game. Seems analogous to me.

[Choada_Boy]

oh good grief, you people are idiots today. recognition? how did that even become an issue? seems a bit presumptuous since the climber in question hasn't said anything about it.

 

[clearing throat]

 

"improbable"..."It didn't feel wet to the touch,"..."but all of the sudden your hands would pop, your foot would pop. You got spray on your face and body. It was like a swamp cooler."..."Winter is not the best time to project something in Yosemite,"..."Sierra storms can be brutal. One day we showed up, and there was 3-4 feet of snow. Tommy [Caldwell] and I had to shovel for six hours; Tommy went to the top, and I shoveled the entire base."..."pretty serious fall potential"..."I climbed it really fast. It was hard for me to hold each position because it was powerful, and the feet are bad in some spots. It forced me to climb from little opening to little opening in the crack. You're deadpointing to fingerlocks and always fighting a barn door."..."I had to work harder on this climb than on any other... I think I was a little stubborn on this one. Most anyone else would have left [because of the winter season and difficulty], but I think the shoveling helped my climbing. It makes your back strong."

 

--Beth Rodden

 

I guess I should quit my job and resume ditch digging to get into good climbing shape. Getting paid to be quoted about my climbing might help, too. Meanwhile, in Darfur...

[sprocket]

In case you missed it this was a trad climb. No bolts.

 

Not a sport climb.

 

Apparently in the same time frame she was "working" this climb she on-sighted 5.13a on gear.

 

I don't glorify this event but I think it is cool. I'm not going to go out and buy whatever gear Beth may be hawking because she did this, I will not create a shrine in her honor and I won't join a fan club but if a few folks want to sent out their kudos on this site I'll chime in and say good job.

 

Similarly if someone on this site came out and reported on a personal accomplishment that was a big goal for them I might chime in and say good job and think that is cool.

[chucK]

Climbing is all a contrivance, with various artificial constraints meant to keep the game interesting. Raindawg's usual schtick is to loudly espouse his belief that his version of the rules is best, along with some supporting reasoning. Shouldn't be that big of a deal...until one's heard it a thousand times. Then one tends to get testy.

 

This latest incident has more to do with Raindawg's history than anything he wrote on this thread. Say you were at a party and a similar thing happened. Someone gushed about Beth Rodden or Barack Obama or Radiohead, and then another party-goer, dismissively disagrees with the adulation. Would the whole party start shouting this guy down? Would you be calling this guy a fucking cocksucker and spitting in his face?

 

If yes, then .... nevermind.

 

It's Raindawg's history of being a pest that is bugging people. It's not anything special he says anymore. Why let it ruin your best threads? Why encourage him? Why soil someone's "Go Beth Rodden" thread with a bunch of useless Raindawg hate?

 

If the answer is "because it's fun", then .... nevermind.

[minx]

this whole thread annoys me to no end

 

First of choada boy-- yeah the shit in darfur is more important to the world than this achievement. but are you spending every waking moment or even very many of them doing something about it?

 

second of all - the world is more interesting place b/c people do unique and challenging things. perhaps we should all be out trying to save the world all the time but that would leave us devoid of great piano concertos and stunning olympic performances.

 

she climbed something bad ass. WTF is so wrong w/acknowleding that? there's no hero worship going on here. some of us are just capable of saying "good job" when someone does something interesting.

 

fuck people! quit being such fuckfaces!

[JayB]

The spontaneity vs rehearsal argument is an interesting one. Kinda hard to draw the line, depending on what you consider rehearsal.

 

In the past few months I had spontaneous moments that marked personal highpoints for me in a couple of my leisure pursuits.

 

The first three were clean kayak descents, with what felt like a solid margin of safety and control, down drops or creeks that I knew I had no business being on in the fall of '06, but that stood out as personal benchmarks that I wanted to shoot for the following year. In some sense, everything that I had ever done in a kayak was a rehearsal for those moments, and for a full year every time I got in a boat I was consciously using the experience to get me to the level I'd need to be at on the moment I chose to commit or walk away. The fact that nothing I'd done in the outdoors had ever been as humbling, provoked as much fear or doubt on so many occasions, or had taken so much work to master as kayaking made those moments as satisfying and memorable as any I'm ever likely to have in the outdoors.

 

The other was hopping on my skis and nailing a clean 540 over a respectable sized kicker. Silly as it sounds, it was something I'd been dreaming of ever since I first became aware of the possibility back in late 1998. Two knee injuries in the moguls, four seasons of rehab on a snowboard, one terrible snow-season and a few other obstacles got in the way. Much doubt, much pain, many crashes, and literally years of preparation lead up to the moment when it all came together a couple of weeks ago.

 

These are just a couple of arbitrary, silly (almost embarrassingly so), and profoundly inconsequential-to-anyone-else goals that I set for myself. Neither is quite like "working" a climb in that you have to commit 100% before each, and beyond a certain point there's no lowering off, hanging, or reversing your moves. However, when all was said and done, the feeling I got from each was almost identical to the feelings I've had on the rare times when I've found myself at the anchor after a first clean ascent of a line that I've grappling with - physically or mentally - for quite some time. In all cases, it was the months or years of doubt, effort, struggle, and yes - preparation - that made the events meaningful and provided the real payoff.

 

If she's never had to struggle/rehearse/prepare for several months to nail a line before - I would wager that doing so made topping out on this route quite a bit more meaningful and satisfying for her than all of the others that fell more easily.

[glassgowkiss]

 

"Mountaineering, and trad climbing to some extent is the opposite."

 

yeah, right. leaving oxygen bottles, fixed ropes and other garbage on tall peaks was a norm from day one. not to mention garbage left on the nose and such routes on el cap or half dome was a domain of the climbers stemming back to the late 60's and early 70's. it took a new generation of climbers to clean your shit up. besides- aiding routes equals PERMANENT chipping of the rock. somehow you don't list fixed pitons to your list of environmental offenses. just friggin' climb something like outer space and see how much so called "clean gear" is in this crack.

 

"The environmentally unfriendly part comes with the attitude that "sport-climbers" have the right to install artificial permanent alterations to the landscape whenever and wherever they please. In my opinion, people should strive to climb "clean" and bolts should be RARE."

 

so according to you it's ok to place bolt on alpine routes? and who decides when? is it when a run out is too much for your small nutsack and puckered asshole?

 

"You'd think that by now outdoor-oriented folks like climbers would understand the "leave little trace" philosophy but "sport-climbers" seem to be one of the worst offenders. You might (maybe) pick up your granola bar wrappers, but you leave a permanent mess of metal affixed the crags."

 

 

not to mention ski resorts, atv users, mountain bikers.... right?

[Bug]

I can't wait until full-on spring so you wankers can remove those panties from your asses and air things out a bit.

Stop beating Beth.

Go climb something.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

EVERYBODY STFU!

[ivan]

this whole thread annoys me to no end

 

yeah, but it's kinda like a car wreck - it's ugly and stupid but ya sorta wanna see some blood and if any of the two aggrieved parties actually are going to start whaling on each other w/ tire irons

[Choada_Boy]

Raindawg rows his boat to Egypt and walks to the tombs he robs so that he can row home and complain about bolts at Exit 38. He doesn't even row through the Panama Canal, he's so committed to preserving the environment.

 

 

[joblo7]

some chic went climbing.

[olyclimber]

YEEEEEHHHAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

 

O0cfnCEvhYI

[olyclimber]

WAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

wJhuk0UkNxQ

[Matt Kidd]

Just to bait people, what about boulders - its expected that you'll work the problem (with no bolts to offend). Might not really be my thing but it seems to me that practicing really hard moves is what making people get so good.

[underworld]

they aren't good, they are just well rehearsed

[Matt Kidd]

There are no good boulderers?

[underworld]

depends on how much fun they are having

[tvashtarkatena]

That's funny, coming from someone who personifies the word ego and started climbing just two or three years ago.

 

I started in 1980, FW, but you go ahead and do the math however you want to there, lil' pup.

[ivan]

That's funny, coming from someone who personifies the word ego and started climbing just two or three years ago.

 

I started in 1980, FW, but you go ahead and do the math however you want to there, lil' pup.

so that's like what, 2 or 3 jovian years then, eh?

[tvashtarkatena]

That's funny, coming from someone who personifies the word ego and started climbing just two or three years ago.

 

I started in 1980, FW, but you go ahead and do the math however you want to there, lil' pup.

so that's like what, 2 or 3 jovian years then, eh?

 

Earthbound journalistic accuracy was never FW's strong suit, but he does have a good eye for space facts.

[archenemy]

Wow! What an impressive display of vulgarity from members of the "climbing community" toward someone who offers a different perspective than the one some of you seem to prefer.

So I think "siege climbing" of this sort is ridiculous...so what! Some of your responses are so over-the-top you should be embarrassed.

 

Me? Vulgar? Never!