22 Killed in Virginia Tech Shooting

[olyclimber]

why don't you both STFU

[mtn_mouse]

Give him a break Tvash, he's a CLUELESS TWIT

[ivan]

the devil's in the details and there always seem to be plenty of you statistic-junkies out there - what is the per capita murder rate of the usa (or an index of countries that have widely available firearms) vs the united kingdom (or a similiar index)? it's seems insanely obvious that having easy access to lethal weapons would lead to a higher murder rate but maybe the numbers speak a different truth? and yes, of course there will always be murder, but it does it have to be so goddamn easy?

 

how many of the folks who advocated the original 2nd amendment would approve of the current situation i wonder?

 

[empire]

This is clearly an example of too much gun control in this country--if each and every student were packing, I mean we'd only be talking about a couple of gun murders here.

 

In fact, we in the Righteous Wing will now reverse our position on the weapons programs of Iran and North Korea--the right to keep and bear arms, after all, is God-given.

[Seahawks]

They can take my gun from my dead hands.

 

Hope springs eternal.

 

Hopefully it will be you trying.

 

Now there's an interesting implied threat for the moderators to take note of....

 

LOL only if you try.

[kevbone]

 

 

Make some changes? Great what do you suggest? Should we make guns illegal? That sure worked with booze and currently drugs. Making something illegal does not ensure that they would not be able to get their hands on a gun ( or drugs ). The killing came from the persons mind. The gun was just the weapon.

 

For someone who doesn't like it when people speak for him (see Infinite Bliss thread) you certainly took it upon yourself to put words in my mouth. I didn't say to make guns illegal. *Personally* I think this would be excellent but I'm not naive enough to expect it to happen. I just think that something needs to change in terms of gun control laws and availability. There has to be a better way.

 

I asked you for your suggestion? Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

Seahawk is right....bush is trying to take the world over.

 

Impeach...impeach...impeach.

[G-spotter]

This is clearly an example of too much gun control in this country--if each and every student were packing, I mean we'd only be talking about a couple of gun murders here.

 

plus all the extra deaths of bystanders caught in the crossfire!

[Seahawks]

 

 

Make some changes? Great what do you suggest? Should we make guns illegal? That sure worked with booze and currently drugs. Making something illegal does not ensure that they would not be able to get their hands on a gun ( or drugs ). The killing came from the persons mind. The gun was just the weapon.

 

For someone who doesn't like it when people speak for him (see Infinite Bliss thread) you certainly took it upon yourself to put words in my mouth. I didn't say to make guns illegal. *Personally* I think this would be excellent but I'm not naive enough to expect it to happen. I just think that something needs to change in terms of gun control laws and availability. There has to be a better way.

 

I asked you for your suggestion? Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

Seahawk is right....bush is trying to take the world over.

 

Impeach...impeach...impeach.

 

:lmao:

[tvashtarkatena]

the devil's in the details and there always seem to be plenty of you statistic-junkies out there - what is the per capita murder rate of the usa (or an index of countries that have widely available firearms) vs the united kingdom (or a similiar index)? it's seems insanely obvious that having easy access to lethal weapons would lead to a higher murder rate but maybe the numbers speak a different truth? and yes, of course there will always be murder, but it does it have to be so goddamn easy?

 

Studies show higher lethality rates in the US that are closely correlated to the availability of guns. This includes accidents, domestic violence (three of the largest slices of the pie), and suicide, as well as 'street crime'. Lots and lots of kids, wives, husbands, boyfriends, and girlfriends are killed by someone close to them...usually by guns. This is the 800 pound gorilla that gun advocates rarely like to talk about. They much prefer to focus on fantasy scenarios of saving that old lady from the street gang or blowing away some 17 year old kid in their living rooms to save the big screen TV.

 

how many of the folks who advocated the original 2nd amendment would approve of the current situation i wonder?

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[StevenSeagal]

Right to bare arms came from a time when Governments tried to control everything with power. Read your history. You Bush bashers should want your guns becuase he taking over the world.

 

I have the right to bare arms.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Once again the anti-gun nuts crawl out from under their rock. So predictable.

[kevbone]

Once again the anti-gun nuts crawl out from under their rock. So predictable.

 

Who are the anti gun nuts?

Edited April 16, 2007 by kevbone

[wfinley]

This is clearly an example of too much gun control in this country--if each and every student were packing, I mean we'd only be talking about a couple of gun murders here.

 

In fact, we in the Righteous Wing will now reverse our position on the weapons programs of Iran and North Korea--the right to keep and bear arms, after all, is God-given.

 

God given? Wow - can I have some of what you're smoking? FWIW - the Va. legislature actually tried to pass a law allowing people to carry guns on university premises. It failed shortly after a legislator mistakenly discharged his handgun inside his office!

 

As for the canned NRA argument -- do you guys really believe this or are you just reading the back of the card they gave you?

[tvashtarkatena]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem.

 

This shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

As for violent overthrow of the government, should it ever be required, dream on. Unless our military stages a coups, fuggedaboutit.

[Alex]

This is clearly an example of too much gun control in this country--if each and every student were packing, I mean we'd only be talking about a couple of gun murders here.

 

This has to be just about the most idiotic thing I've read in a long time, so I know it must be a troll, because certainly I can't really be living among people this stupid.

[ivan]

Once again the anti-gun nuts crawl out from under their rock. So predictable.

i'm from a military family and grew up my whole life around guns - i don't see what's so nutty about reformulating a freedom which, when granted 2 centuries ago, didn't carry with it the same deadly weight as today? i'm all for the cops and the army having the most modern guns - you guys who wanna plug deer and baby-bunnies, sure why not leave you those muzzle-loading contraptions that worked fine back when the spirit of '76 was so powerful? but you don't need semi-automatic anything. and no amount of personal firearms will allow folks to form militias capable of resisting a goverment gun crazy, ala the bush paranoia line of though - you gotta find a way to do that the democratic way

[tvashtarkatena]

Making guns illegal was my idea and it will not work.

 

I do agree...there has to be another way. What....I have no idea.

 

 

Studies also show that the vast majority of guns involved in violent crimes originate from federally licensed dealers that sell without a store front or proper record keeping. Shut these bastards down, require a valid storefront and proper record keeping for licensed dealers, plus a backround check and waiting period for purchasers (already in place in many states) and you've addressed a significant chunk of the ease of availability problem. The fact that much of the public is unaware of this problem has more to do with a long term program of obfuscation put forth by pro-gun legislators and the NRA's propoganda than anything else. The NRA does not lobby for a reduction in gun violence; they lobby for continued public confusion on the issue so that they can preserve zero infringement policies. Every one of the pro-gun arguments on this forum that I've read so far (except for KKK...he has not arguments, just his typical Fuck Yous) originated in with NRA's editorial staff (Dad was a member; I read the mag while growing up). That is not to say that the NRA does not support and educate their members on handling guns safely; they do.

 

The reforms proposed here shouldn't impinge most lawful gun enthusiasts too terribly much.

 

As for violent overthrow of the government, should it ever be required, dream on. Unless our military stages a coups, fuggedaboutit.

Edited April 16, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[empire]

God bless the victims and may He welcome their souls. Tragedy strikes us where we are softest and can be hurt the most.

 

plus all the extra deaths of bystanders caught in the crossfire!

 

God given? Wow - can I have some of what you're smoking? FWIW - the Va. legislature actually tried to pass a law allowing people to carry guns on university premises. It failed shortly after a legislator mistakenly discharged his handgun inside his office!

 

Have to agree and personally I think it's sad that in these days, the average man or woman in this country doesn't have the slightest idea how to operate a firearm, let alone defend their right to security. Makes you wonder just how "bad" it would be to ship a few million of our new generation over to the near-eastern theater for a little weapons training... might even be a little safer (as it seems). I just wonder what kind of firepower they're willing to put in the hands of the shepherds, in the interest of keeping the peace.

[mtn_mouse]

Right to bare arms

 

 

[Seahawks]

wow. nice gun.

[tvashtarkatena]

God bless the victims and may He welcome their souls. Tragedy strikes us where we are softest and can be hurt the most.

 

plus all the extra deaths of bystanders caught in the crossfire!

 

God given? Wow - can I have some of what you're smoking? FWIW - the Va. legislature actually tried to pass a law allowing people to carry guns on university premises. It failed shortly after a legislator mistakenly discharged his handgun inside his office!

 

Have to agree and personally I think it's sad that in these days, the average man or woman in this country doesn't have the slightest idea how to operate a firearm, let alone defend their right to security. Makes you wonder just how "bad" it would be to ship a few million of our new generation over to the near-eastern theater for a little weapons training... might even be a little safer (as it seems). I just wonder what kind of firepower they're willing to put in the hands of the shepherds, in the interest of keeping the peace.

 

Although this is a total troll...

 

'Sad'?

 

The average man or woman in America is smart enough to realize that good neighbors, dogs, and good locks, and good street sense are much more effective for 'personal security' than guns. The average man or woman in America also gets their meat at Safeway.

 

From a health and longevity standpoint, the average man or woman in America would be much better off focusing on diet and exercise than the wonderful world of guns.

[drater]

Almost every pickup truck in North Idaho has a gunrack with multiple guns in the back window (excluding the california cowboys inundating us lately). Many other people have concealed carry permits. It's pretty well understood that more people than not are armed up here.

 

We have low violent crime rates, especially the kind of crimes supported by Tvash's studies. Meth crimes are another matter, tweakers are too wacked to think straight.

 

Point blank, you'd have to be a moron to start waving your gun around up here, as a couple stupid Wigga's from Spocompton learned last summer when one guy flashed the .40 stuck in his drooping drawers. He left in one piece, sans piece, with a point of advise to stay out of Sandpoint.

 

Fodder for thought.

[tvashtarkatena]

Almost every pickup truck in North Idaho has a gunrack with multiple guns in the back window (excluding the california cowboys inundating us lately). Many other people have concealed carry permits. It's pretty well understood that more people than not are armed up here.

 

We have low violent crime rates, especially the kind of crimes supported by Tvash's studies. Meth crimes are another matter, tweakers are too wacked to think straight.

 

Point blank, you'd have to be a moron to start waving your gun around up here, as a couple stupid Wigga's from Spocompton learned last summer when one guy flashed the .40 stuck in his drooping drawers. He left in one piece, sans piece, with a point of advise to stay out of Sandpoint.

 

Fodder for thought.

 

If your stats include suicide, gun accidents, and domestic violence, per capita, I'd love to see them. But I'm thinking right now those statistics are going to show something quite different from the argument you just presented.

[wfinley]

Idaho is also many miles away from a major population center - yet it still ranks 42 (out of 52 which includes DC and Pueto Rico). Doesn't sound that great to me. It also doens't sound like such a great place to be a woman... #29 for rape. Are women not allowed to carry guns or are guns being used to enforce rape?

 

In the year 2000 Idaho had an estimated population of 1,293,953 which ranked the state as having the 39th in population. For that year the State of Idaho had a total Crime Index of 3,186.2 reported incidents per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 38th highest total Crime Index. For Violent Crime Idaho had a reported incident rate of 252.5 per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 42nd highest occurrence for Violent Crime among the states. For crimes against Property, the state had a reported incident rate of 2,933.7 per 100,000 people, which ranked as the state 37th highest. Also in the year 2000 Idaho had 1.2 Murders per 100,000 people, ranking the state as having the 47th highest rate for Murder. Idaho’s 29.7 reported Forced Rapes per 100,000 people, ranked the state 29th highest. For Robbery, per 100,000 people, Idaho’s rate was 17.2 which ranked the state as having the 48th highest for Robbery. The state also had 204.3 Aggravated Assaults for every 100,000 people, which indexed the state as having the 34th highest position for this crime among the states. For every 100,000 people there were 566.5 Burglaries, which ranks Idaho as having the 34th highest standing among the states. Larceny - Theft were reported 2,206.0 times per hundred thousand people in Idaho which standing is the 35th highest among the states. Vehicle Theft occurred 161.2 times per 100,000 people, which fixed the state as having the 45th highest for vehicle theft among the states

[wfinley]

And in 2003 Idaho ranked #6 for suicide.

 

In 2003 (the most recent year available), Idaho had the 6th highest suicide rate in the nation; 51% higher than the national average.

Suicide is the 2nd leading cause of death for adolescents and young adults in Idaho.

In 2004, 239 Idahoans completed suicide.

63% of Idaho suicides involve a firearm; the national average is 54%.

http://www.spanidaho.org/facts.php