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dmuja

Risk- why?

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People take waaaay stupider risks:

 

smoking

drinking and driving

eating meat(linked w colon cancer)

 

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People take waaaay stupider risks:

 

smoking

drinking and driving

eating meat(linked w colon cancer)

 

Hmmm.. What if you do all that AND climb??

 

Some of us are really taking some risks here...

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People take waaaay stupider risks:

 

smoking

drinking and driving

eating meat(linked w colon cancer)

 

you forgot:

veganism

breathing

posting on the interweb

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Got this e-mail from my niece (east coast) last night:

 

We've been glued to the TV watching the rescue operations on Mt. Hood, and of course that brings thoughts of you to mind... STAY HOME !!! NO MORE CLIMBING!! It's soooo sad, I can't imagine what those poor families are going through. Glad it's not us sitting out there while they are looking for you. I know you're experienced, but so were they...

 

I'm sure we are all going through that same tired old crap with family and friends who think they are perfectly safe and sane, while we crazies have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Then one day they will go out and get shot on the street or t-boned by a drunk driver and...blah, blah, blah, you know the drill.

 

So who of us would rather spend our last moment on the planet in a smelly hospital or a noisy dirty street than in the mountains anyway?

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So who of us would rather spend our last moment on the planet in a smelly hospital or a noisy dirty street than in the mountains anyway?

 

got dat right, highbrow.

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Testament of a Climber

 

 

I climb… because I love to;

 

Because I love the environs where mountains are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because of all the television commercials, cocktail parties and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my climbing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because the mountains do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time, and I for one don’t want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones to answer while climbing; because only in the mountains can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe one day I will climb my Everest; and, finally, not because I regard climbing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant…and not nearly so much fun.

 

*Adapted from the book Trout Magic, and with all respect to it’s author, Robert Traver.

 

My condolences to the James family and continued hope that Brian and Jerry will be rescued.

 

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I saw a show once on PBS about the building of a suspension bridge across the Missouri river. I was amazed at what a small crew worked on it and the risks they took. As the job got more dangerous these guys would only work with each other. One day one was sick and they all stayed down.

It was more than money that sent them up there.

 

Its a good thing they do it, and guess what CNN,MSNBC and Fox will not be there when they have an accident.

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Moderator Note: This thread is no longer about Phil Jones, if you want to post about Phillip or his "ideas" please head to the two threads in Spray. This is just about the original topic.

 

 

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I find the responses to phil jones' postings a tad bit....laden with righteous indignation? To the point of intolerance? perhaps ironic.

 

maybe there's a history that extends beyond this thread, but what i've seen from him are remarks that certainly could elicit discussion beyond mere reactionary protectionism around one's chosen pursuit (the irony here is that this response seemingly validates some of the charges about the "self-centered" nature of certain high risk behaviours such as winter ascents in unpredictable environments, mainly by ones who never find themselves in these environments(!)).

 

Having said that, I'm hardly of the opinion that people "should" or "shouldn't" do this or not do that; i've taken chances with many things in my life, and can see how quickly life could have slipped away during one of these moments, but if someone attempted to regulate my behaviour, well, "fuck off" has been my response in the past.

 

Considering that "risk-taking" behaviour is *mainly* found in the males of our species, I would think that it is beyond a doubt associated with a genetic predisposition towards mating viability, ie. an unconscious sublimated response in a world that has evolved away from the historic modes of mate selection through animalistic displays promoting physical primacy.

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Considering that "risk-taking" behaviour is *mainly* found in the males of our species, I would think that it is beyond a doubt associated with a genetic predisposition towards mating viability, ie. an unconscious sublimated response in a world that has evolved away from the historic modes of mate selection through animalistic displays promoting physical primacy.

 

...or, for some of us, simply the pursuit of beauty.

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Considering that "risk-taking" behaviour is *mainly* found in the males of our species, I would think that it is beyond a doubt associated with a genetic predisposition towards mating viability

 

To paraphrase a guy I used to climb with "climbing offers the same kind of personal growth as combat, without requiring you to kill anyone." He was a vietnam vet, so i guess he'd know.

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Considering that "risk-taking" behaviour is *mainly* found in the males of our species, I would think that it is beyond a doubt associated with a genetic predisposition towards mating viability

 

To paraphrase a guy I used to climb with "climbing offers the same kind of personal growth as combat, without requiring you to kill anyone." He was a vietnam vet, so i guess he'd know.

 

I guess he would...for himself, not others.

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Well let's see...

 

I'll just pick one out of your post:

 

why do we allow 16 year olds to control 4000 lbs of steel moving at 65mph?

 

The way to compare this to the climbers stuck at Mt. Hood is to say it in this way:

 

A smart person wouldn't allow their 16 year old to go drag racing for the thrill of it when the roads were glare ice sheets, blindfolded.

 

That's how I see that these climbers decided to climb the most difficult side of the mountain in the middle of winter, knowing that the weather can change (and probably will) in a second. From what I can tell, the one dude most likely broke his arm in a fall because they decided it would be fun to climb ice cliffs. Now that alone is fine and dandy, people do things for the thrill of it all the time and come out perfectly fine. But the fact that they decided to climb to the summit of the mountain on these ice cliffs, in the middle of winter, is what did them in.

 

Keep in mind, I am not a climber, I've never climbed a mountain, but this is the view from the outside looking in. I'm open to being corrected.

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I don't have time to respond now (at work) but I do appreciate that you don't state your opinions as the Gospel Truth, and you keep an open mind. This has been discussed a lot by now and I'm sure you will find many reasons people climb (even difficult stuff) if you do a little digging into recent threads of discussion.

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I find the responses to phil jones' postings a tad bit....laden with righteous indignation? To the point of intolerance? perhaps ironic.

 

maybe there's a history that extends beyond this thread, but what i've seen from him are remarks that certainly could elicit discussion beyond mere reactionary protectionism around one's chosen pursuit (the irony here is that this response seemingly validates some of the charges about the "self-centered" nature of certain high risk behaviours such as winter ascents in unpredictable environments, mainly by ones who never find themselves in these environments(!)).

 

Having said that, I'm hardly of the opinion that people "should" or "shouldn't" do this or not do that; i've taken chances with many things in my life, and can see how quickly life could have slipped away during one of these moments, but if someone attempted to regulate my behaviour, well, "fuck off" has been my response in the past.

 

Considering that "risk-taking" behaviour is *mainly* found in the males of our species, I would think that it is beyond a doubt associated with a genetic predisposition towards mating viability, ie. an unconscious sublimated response in a world that has evolved away from the historic modes of mate selection through animalistic displays promoting physical primacy.

In the majority of the world, and through the majority of history, the main cause of death to women is childbirth. And although they can eliminate this risk by eliminating the behaviors that lead to pregnancy, they choose not to. This is ultimate risk taking behavior. So please, don't relegate risky behavior to genetics. I think if you widen your definition of risk, you will soon find that women partake in many, many risky behaviors everyday--ones that they could easily pay for with their lives. Climbing just happens to be marketed mostly to men; but that is changing. I think over the next ten years, the ratio will continue to shrink rapidly; much more quickly than "evolution" would explain.

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