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accident at Little Si


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Fixed rebar would be better.

 

What the hell do you guys think this area is, an ethical conservatory like Grit?

It's a friggin' outdoor gym, and it'll continue to be such, with or without safety considerations.

 

The "purist hardman" approach to Si cracks me up. Save that for Index, Gunks, Needles, etc. but not some choss pile teetering in the dank woods along a freeway for cars and hikers.

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Until those climbers decide they want to climb elsewhere (Leavenworth, Index, etc etc) and decide they want rebar and ropes there too.

 

Belaying isn't purist hardman... it's just plain climbing. Everyone opts for a belay at a different point... for some people setting up a TR is an appropriate time to get a belay.

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Have you even been there?

 

The ledge is hardly pristine. With more than a hundred bolts up there, more than a few at ledge level for securing your pack or pooch, and even a few bolted cracks, I see nothing lost from a fixed rope/chain or some well-placed rebar (better).

 

An argument against such an installation based on preserving any sort of wilderness atmosphere is totally off-base.

 

And "bust out a rope and belay" rolleyes.gif.

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Glad to hear he'll be okay thumbs_up.gif

 

I agree climbers have to look out for themselves, but a fixed line isn't gonna be much of an impact, especially for an established sport climbing area and if it's going to protect a potentially life threatening fall. All of these arguments could have been made for the ladders and bridges at Index.

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Until those climbers decide they want to climb elsewhere (Leavenworth, Index, etc etc) and decide they want rebar and ropes there too.

 

Belaying isn't purist hardman... it's just plain climbing. Everyone opts for a belay at a different point... for some people setting up a TR is an appropriate time to get a belay.

 

Do you know the area being talked about? Belaying isn't the problem (unless you have a short rope!); it's the navigation between the near side (Rainy Day Women etc.) and the far side. Acces is across a slippery when dry/slipperier when wet section of rock pinned against the wall right under a ridiculously popular assortment of climbs. Hence, congestion and drama.

 

No I don't think mitigating a silly inconvenience at best/broken bone and skull at worst situation will lead to a via ferrata up your holy grail outer space.

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I am not arguing against a rope for "the sake of preserving any sort of wilderness atmosphere".

 

I am against increasing the "precieved footprint" climbers leave when producing a sport climbing area. In the future anyone against a new sport area at like say Beacon Rock for example would just have to point to this fixed anchor mess and say "look what it will turn into... do you want to look at this in your area?"

 

If that many bolts exist up there it sounds like anyone could easily belay themselves safely so rebar would not be needed.

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I am not arguing against a rope for "the sake of preserving any sort of wilderness atmosphere".

 

I am against increasing the "precieved footprint" climbers leave when producing a sport climbing area. In the future anyone against a new sport area at like say Beacon Rock for example would just have to point to this fixed anchor mess and say "look what it will turn into... do you want to look at this in your area?"

 

If that many bolts exist up there it sounds like anyone could easily belay themselves safely so rebar would not be needed.

 

For perspective, the "area" being considered consists of less than 100 feet of ledge acessing many climbs of which few are under 5.12 and several of which are among the hardest in the state. And the ledge would rarely be visited if not for sport climbing.

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Bummer. Just found out it was a buddy of mine. And for those who don't know him, he is definitely not "some sporto" or gumby or whatever...(not that I think anyone implied that he was - just for the record). Super strong, experienced, level-headed guy (and a hell of a nice guy to boot)and it is scary to think of accidents like this happening to people like him. I guess thats why they're called accidents...

 

Apparently his injuries are not life threatening.

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Glad to hear it wasn't worse and that he will be ok. I hope he has insurance!

 

Was he wearing his helmet when he fell?

 

That spot is a bit sketchy if wet or busy, but I would agree that it is easily protectable if someone wants to without a fixed rope/cable/ladder.

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Was he wearing his helmet when he fell?

 

That spot is a bit sketchy if wet or busy, but I would agree that it is easily protectable if someone wants to without a fixed rope/cable/ladder.

 

Helmets are rarely seen on LL and belays across the ledge are as rare as bigfoot sightings. The sketchy section is regularly done in tennies, flip flops, and bare feet. This is just the nature of the beast ("Hey would you give me a belay on this class 4 bit on the way to my 5.13 proj?")

 

Nonetheless, I predict we will continue to see accidents in this area whether it be due to crowding, conditions, or just plain old lack of focus.

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I don't think that we want to encourage people to rope up before crossing the ledge. This will only increase the the cluster f* factor. I prefer taking the lowest ledge across and the higher ledge coming back. I really wouldn't want to look up as I'm crossing and see somebody on the high route roped up. Can't imagine a better way of clearing the ledge than having some noob attached to a rope weaving his way through the crowd.

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I predict we will continue to see accidents in this area whether it be due to crowding, conditions, or just plain old lack of focus.

 

I agree. I saw a climber dropped when the end of the rope went through somebody's gri gri during lowering off, and I've seen people chasing rolling packs, dogs unleashed, and lord knows what all.

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To the fixed-assistance people: is this what you want to see at your local crag? hellno3d.gif

Via_ferrata_Colmiane.JPG

 

At the risk of sounding insensitive, moral of the story is don't fall. "Accidents" like these are caused by bad decisions. If you didn't think you had to be careful while traversing that ledge... now you know. Rebar isn't going to protect you from bad judgement.

 

And if there are people in the way, you're just going to have to come out of the depths of hardcoreness for a moment, to ask them to accomodate your passage. shocked.gif

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Is this what you want to see at your local crag? hellno3d.gif

Via_ferrata_Colmiane.JPG

 

At the risk of sounding insensitive, moral of the story is don't fall. "Accidents" like these are caused by stupidity. If you didn't think you had to be careful while traversing that ledge... now you know. Rebar isn't going to protect you from bad judgement.

 

And if there's people in the way, you're just going to have to come out of the depths of hardcoreness for a moment, to ask them to accomodate your passage. shocked.gif

 

Yeah - cause that's EXACTLY what it would look like. cry.gif Gimme a break. The Via Ferrata angle is overworked, tired and needs to be put to bed. yellowsleep.gif Hey - I know - next lets re-post the picture of the bolts with burgers on them. Moral of the story - accidents are accidents. Some are caused by stupidity (lowering off end of rope) others are certainly not.

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