Life Insurance

[BillA]

I got this letter today:

"After reviewing the application carefully, we are unable to extend an offer of life insurance. The decision is due to mountain climbing activities as indicated in the application and underwriting interview."

 

Anyone else have trouble getting it?

[rbwen]

My wife and I got it but if our death is due to 'mountain climbing' we couldn't collect. Same for our disability, unless we wanted to pay through the roof for coverage.

 

rbwen

[Couloir]

More here.

[ivan]

yup - had the same thing happen last year

[plark42]

It's the same for health insurance. I HIKE mountains- which is exercise. Wouldn't insurance companies WANT to cover healthy people? Just LIE!!

[PaulB]

I have a policy which excludes death due to mountaineering. I've recently had an insurance broker do some research, and they found that it is possible to get policies which include mountaineering, but that they cost an extra $2.50 - $5.00 per $1,000 of coverage, on top of the base cost of the policy.

[EWolfe]

Lloyds of Llondon

[G-spotter]

A climber's life ain't worth shit anyhow.

[matt_m]

I've asked about this as well - there's a form State Farm has to fill out - it's so dated and out of touch it's laughable. 1) they assume all cimbing means you're going to bag everest or some snow and ice route. 2) they things they ask clearly show they have NO IDEA about the risks inherent with DIFFERENT types of climbing 3) they assume gear is from circa 1970

[dberdinka]

I got lucky in that my work offers Life and AD&D (Accidental Death & Dismemberment) insurance for everyone. Ultimately I have about 8x my salary in coverage. The only activity it doesn't cover (at the moment) is flying small planes. Of course that doesn't help you at all....

 

So what is the exact definition of "mountain climbing". What If I died in an avalanche while skiing on the side of a mountain, or rockclimbing at Index, or hiking to Camp Muir. Probably something that would play itself out in court.

[Stephen_Ramsey]

It's the same for health insurance. I HIKE mountains- which is exercise. Wouldn't insurance companies WANT to cover healthy people? Just LIE!!

Plark,

 

This is interesting. Are you saying you were denied health insurance due to being a climber? Or that a claim was denied due to an injury while climbing?

[chelle]

There are quite a few threads on the issue. About 6 years ago I had a State Farm insurance agent suggest I stop climbing for 3 years and then I could get a policy without lying. Once you have your policy you can resume climbing and as long as you are current on the premiums they cannot do anything and must payout even if you die climbing.

 

I'm not sure that I would stop climbing just to get insurance, but I've not really climbed in about 20 months due to shoulder problems, so maybe I'll qualify via that route... Although I do have really good coverage through work now so I probably won't.

[PaulB]

About 6 years ago I had a State Farm insurance agent suggest I stop climbing for 3 years and then I could get a policy without lying.

I've also heard of this strategy.

 

Once you have your policy you can resume climbing and as long as you are current on the premiums they cannot do anything and must payout even if you die climbing.

I've also been told that if you have a policy with no exclusions, and if you don't die within two years of getting the policy, you're pretty much covered for any cause of death. Of course that assumes you didn't lie on the application, or that the underwriter can't prove that you did.

[archenemy]

Who offers a policy with no exclusions? I have never heard of one--at the very least they exclude suicide.

[StickBoy]

Who offers a policy with no exclusions? I have never heard of one--at the very least they exclude suicide.

I have Farmers Insurance and I have no exclusions, but I have to wait for two years before I can commit suicide. I think I only have 18 months to go

 

Mike

[Dechristo]

I committed suicide once and my policy required only that I say three Our Fathers and two Hail Marys and I was covered.

[PaulB]

...but I have to wait for two years before I can commit suicide

I pulled out my policy for a look-see, and it's got the same clause, which I think is pretty standard.

[J_Kirby]

There are quite a few threads on the issue. About 6 years ago I had a State Farm insurance agent suggest I stop climbing for 3 years and then I could get a policy without lying. Once you have your policy you can resume climbing and as long as you are current on the premiums they cannot do anything and must payout even if you die climbing.

 

I'm not sure that I would stop climbing just to get insurance, but I've not really climbed in about 20 months due to shoulder problems, so maybe I'll qualify via that route... Although I do have really good coverage through work now so I probably won't.

 

I talked to my SF agent here in Portland about the same thing last year. The figure he gave me was one year of no climbing for any insurance that they had to do underwriting on. All their questionaires at the time asked whether you have done a number of risky activities in "the last 12 months." I opted not to do it at the time and work around it through my insurance at work that didn't require underwriting.

[archenemy]

Who offers a policy with no exclusions? I have never heard of one--at the very least they exclude suicide.

I have Farmers Insurance and I have no exclusions, but I have to wait for two years before I can commit suicide. I think I only have 18 months to go

 

Mike

Take me with you. Maybe I'll circumvent my own policy exclusion.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Most policies exclude "Roped Excursions". This is usually the terminology I've seen while reviewing insurance and suplemental coverate plans for employees. Aflac also has a clause about excluding these so called "Roped Excursions". Seemingly, if you are soloing something then you are covered. Not sure about all the legal loopholes, but this is what I was told by the salepersonel from Aflac while I was reviewing their policies in my last job.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

so, don't rope up?

[nattybumppo]

I've got an insurance license and have sold policies in the past. The trick is to minimize the hazardous nature of your climbing by referring to it as snow camping, scrambling, and toproping at the gym. Plausible deniability is the secret when talking to the selling agent. DON'T volunteer definitions of hazardous activity. When the agent asks whether you engage in any hazardous sports, only reply with "Such as...?" Half the time they won't think to ask about mountain climbing (Remove any framed hero shots that are visible from the kitchen table, however.)

 

NONE of this means that if you die climbing within two years after the policy is written that you'll be covered. YOU WILL NOT BE COVERED. But it does mean that you can get the policy at an affordable premium. Remember, the car ride to the climb is more hazardous than the climb itself. After two years, the "suicide exclusion" (shorthand for voluntary life threatening activities) expires and you may climb at will with the assumption of coverage.

[RogerJ]

I've also gone through the same crap with bicycle racing. I've taken to using the same advice already given. Recreational cycling, hiking and camping.

 

I don't skydive, but what would you say "safe high altitude airplane exiting"?

 

-r

[JayB]

I've got an insurance license and have sold policies in the past. The trick is to minimize the hazardous nature of your climbing by referring to it as snow camping, scrambling, and toproping at the gym. Plausible deniability is the secret when talking to the selling agent. DON'T volunteer definitions of hazardous activity. When the agent asks whether you engage in any hazardous sports, only reply with "Such as...?" Half the time they won't think to ask about mountain climbing (Remove any framed hero shots that are visible from the kitchen table, however.)

 

NONE of this means that if you die climbing within two years after the policy is written that you'll be covered. YOU WILL NOT BE COVERED. But it does mean that you can get the policy at an affordable premium. Remember, the car ride to the climb is more hazardous than the climb itself. After two years, the "suicide exclusion" (shorthand for voluntary life threatening activities) expires and you may climb at will with the assumption of coverage.

 

Hey NattyB - could you expand on that last bit? If I hear you right, it sounds as if you're able to sneak through the application process without ever being asked about risky activities, and you're able to get a policy without lying about them - then two years after the policy goes into effect and the "suicide exclusion" clause expires, you are covered for pretty much anything?

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you said - but it sounds as though it'd be pretty tough to get through the application process without anyone asking about what activities that you engage in. BTW - any idea how WW kayaking ranks in the insurance companies' hierarchy o' risk? It's always felt way more risky than climbing to me, and I'd be curious to know if the insurance companies feel the same way.

[StickBoy]

Most policies exclude "Roped Excursions". This is usually the terminology I've seen while reviewing insurance and suplemental coverate plans for employees. Aflac also has a clause about excluding these so called "Roped Excursions".

 

Crap. I better not have a heart attack while in bondage.