artschool Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 ...we know that those victims wouldn't want us to change a thing about our commitment to the hills... I wonder if our children have the same opinion about this? Adults can get over a loss, children suffer a little more I'd say. That's a good question. Climbing is something I do for myself so I guess, by definition, that makes it selfish. If children are part of my life, I'm no longer just risking life and limb but part of my children's support network, and all that entails, as well. Hmm. Kinda makes all the risk assessment and evaluation a little more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 The third climber who was killed was John Augenstein. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I climb because it is now a part of who I am. With kids in the picture, I do not climb as much simply because they require time doing things with me that are of their chosing. When long periods go by in which I have not climbed, I miss it but I always know I will get out again. The risk factor is mitigated by more conservative measures including route selection, weather, protection placement, runouts, etc. I try to keep my puruits in the realm of being safer than driving 405 every day. I think I achieve that. This in no way means I think I am immune to objective hazards. They are what define risk after 30+ years of climbing. I just take extra care to keep them at bay and keep focused on what I can control. If I die on the freeway, my daughters will be just as sad but would they say that I should never have driven to work? I do not think so. The balance of a climber's tragedy is between who he was and who he would have been without climbing. It hurts to lose a climbing friend but I would not have known them the way I did without climbing. My condolences to those who knew any of the climbers who died yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 ...we know that those victims wouldn't want us to change a thing about our commitment to the hills... I wonder if our children have the same opinion about this? Adults can get over a loss, children suffer a little more I'd say. That's a good question. Climbing is something I do for myself so I guess, by definition, that makes it selfish. I'd challenge anyone, in an inventory of their lives, to produce a ledger that shows less "selfish" activity than "unselfish"... particularly, after in-depth assessment has appropriately moved most of the "unselfish" acts over to their home in the "selfish" column. If children are part of my life, I'm no longer just risking life and limb but part of my children's support network, and all that entails, as well. Hmm. Kinda makes all the risk assessment and evaluation a little more complicated. Why not start risk assessment and evaluation before you have kids? Or is a decision to have kids selfish in itself? Considering bringing kids into a world where their support structure and very well-being will always be in some jeopardy, one may decide to not subject a child to such conditions. Knowing you could never be absolutely celibate nor trust contraception, you may need to kill yourself to fulfill your pledge. But then there are those that you've left behind that are disappointed in your death. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You are who you are. In some cases, to deprive children of a parent active in climbing (by the parent quitting the activity for their childrens' sake), is to deprive those children of knowing their parent and a model for the pursuit and enjoyment of life; and their lack would be due to a selfish decision. Presumptions supporting decisions you make on behalf of yourself, your children, or others, are your own inherently. But, it's cool to quit climbing if that's what you think you need to do. It's not cool if you believe what's right for you is what everyone else should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin_B Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) post deleted due to my ignorance... Edited July 12, 2005 by Dustin_B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Please forgive the cross-posting, as I put these shots on the Mountaineers website as well. John Augenstein on This House of Sky (Banff, CA) February 2005. -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 there was a lengthy thread about climbing as a parent about three years ago if you want to dig that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 My condolences to all of the families and friends. This really sucks. Since I began climing in the early 90's, this makes 6 people I know who have perished in the mountains. I don't know if the fact that they were out doing what they loved can be a consoling factor to anyone right now. Personally, I'm still numb from the death of a good friend a couple of weeks ago in a random shooting. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 That's a good question. Climbing is something I do for myself so I guess, by definition, that makes it selfish. If children are part of my life, I'm no longer just risking life and limb but part of my children's support network, and all that entails, as well. Hmm. Kinda makes all the risk assessment and evaluation a little more complicated. I completely disagree. My father climbed, and I found what he did inspiring. While he never had any major problems in the mountains, I still feel that his, " selfish," hoby would have inspired me no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Go ahead and tell me where to take it if you want, but it seems that these side conversations should be taken to a different thread. While I didn't know these folks, out of respect it seems fitting to try and keep it spray-free and on topic. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Go ahead and tell me where to take it if you want, but it seems that these side conversations should be taken to a different thread. While I didn't know these folks, out of respect it seems fitting to try and keep it spray-free and on topic. I totally agree. I never meant to start an inappropriate thread drift about whether or not parents with children should be active climbers, nor should I have spoken on behalf of two of the victims, one of whom I knew only slightly and the other not at all, but… Jo Backus had many, many friends in the climbing community and I consider myself fortunate to have been counted among them, so I can feel fairly confident in saying that the last thing she would have wanted would be for any of those friends of hers to give up climbing because of what happened to her. In fact, I believe to do so would dishonor her memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Maestro, The comment wasn't pointed towards you, or anyone in particular. I was just getting bad vibes of a thread drift starting to happen, that didn't seem appropriate. Peace be with you, and all that feel the affects of this accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Is a Wake inappropriate? Is the "thread drift" of discussing issues at the core of our lives, provoked by their deaths, dishonoring? Perhaps someone that knew these persons better will speak up as to what those that have passed on would have wished in remembrance of them, but for now, we have this: ...I can feel fairly confident in saying that the last thing she would have wanted would be for any of those friends of hers to give up climbing because of what happened to her. In fact, I believe to do so would dishonor her memory. At times like this, our inertia over action is due to us not knowing how to honor our dead with life. Peace be with you, and all that feel the affects of this accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 RIP. More info in the Seattle Times article: Long night with death for student climber By Craig Welch and Warren Cornwall Seattle Times staff reporters The Mountaineers As darkness descended over the North Cascades Sunday, Janel Fox faced a night shivering in the rain below a gnarled granite ridge, huddled not far from the bodies of her climbing instructors. The 28-year-old mountaineering student from Seattle had hiked into Boston Basin as the least-experienced of six mountaineers, and one of two students hoping to summit the 8,120-foot Sharkfin Tower to complete a basic climbing class from The Mountaineers, the Northwest's most storied climbing organization. By early Sunday evening, everything had unraveled. Fox's two trip leaders were dead, killed by a falling rock the size of a refrigerator. The only other uninjured survivor, Michael Hannam of Olympia, was racing down a snowfield to get help. And Fox, the rookie, was left holding two seriously injured climbers — one fading in and out of consciousness, and the other so wounded he later died in Fox's arms. "Janel was amazing," said Pat Timson, a guide for a different group, Alpine Ascents International, who was the first to arrive at the accident scene in the North Cascades National Park Sunday evening. "She had her moments of falling apart. But she held those guys and took care of them. And then she spent the night freezing her butt off, sitting on a foam pad in the snow with a sleeping bag pulled over her." The worst accident in the 99-year history of The Mountaineers finally ended yesterday, when a helicopter dropped Fox and Hannam in Marblemount, Skagit County, carried the injured climbing student, Wayne McCourt of Tacoma, to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, and took the bodies of the three dead to a morgue. But it may be days or weeks before the National Park Service, Skagit County officials and members of The Mountaineers can determine the precise chain of events in the first multiple climbing fatality in the national park since the 1980s. "We've never, ever had anything like this," said Steve Costie, executive director of The Mountaineers. The dead were identified yesterday as Johanna Backus, 61, of Tacoma, a 19-year member of the Tacoma branch of the Mountaineers; Mark Harrison of Bellevue, a former Marine and a climbing instructor known for being fun and loud; and John Augenstein, 42, of Seattle, who had joined the weekend climb just to help out. McCourt suffered head injuries and was listed in satisfactory condition at Harborview. The accident began to unfold about 4 p.m. Sunday, when the climbers, all members of The Mountaineers, were retreating from a failed attempt to reach the top of Sharkfin, a knob at the head of the Quien Sabe Glacier. Backus, who had been to the top of Sharkfin before, was leading the group with help from Harrison and Augenstein. The trip was part of The Mountaineers' basic climbing course, which draws 300 to 400 people a year. But it's not easy. The route crosses a snowfield and a glacier with crevasses. "Everyone had a lot of training," Costie said. Especially Backus. "You talk about nail-down-all-the-details — she wasn't going to be frivolous out there in the backcountry. You can really trust her." But while descending through a gully, Backus was struck by a falling rock. The rest of the group helped her to a lower point. They were re-rigging ropes when a larger rock fell and hit them, said Tim Manns, spokesman for North Cascades National Park. It's not clear what knocked the rocks free, said Kelly Bush, lead climbing ranger for the national park. "As rare as these kind of accidents are, there is always loose rock in those gullies, so it's always a possibility," Manns said. Officials said they believe Backus and Harrison died instantly. Augenstein and McCourt were both badly injured. The climbers had set up camp below, in Boston Basin. So they were carrying only small packs with little overnight gear. Hannam sprinted down the glacier to the campground for help, finding Timson, who had been preparing to guide his own group into the mountains. Timson sent his group to contact authorities, and then immediately climbed up to Fox. Fifteen minutes later, Augenstein died. By 10 p.m., Hannam had returned with more gear, and rigged a series of tarps to protect McCourt. Fog and rain prevented helicopters from reaching the climbers immediately. But climbing rangers had arrived by 6:45 a.m. "They were really cold, shivering, and in need of something warm," said ranger Alex Brun. "It was a long night, but they made it." Backus, a registered nurse, organized everything from climbs to snowshoe outings for The Mountaineers, and founded a group that takes at-risk kids into the woods. "She was very safe, very sensible and never let good judgment get swayed by desire," said Helen Engle of the Tacoma Mountaineers. Harrison, who friends say performed hostage rescues when he was a Marine, was remembered as a strong climber who led backcountry ski trips and worked with Backus' group for kids. "He was a ton of fun," recalled Jim Farris, a friend who had often climbed with him. Augenstein, friends said, initially came off as a quiet man, probably because he was hard of hearing. But he "was a very warm and funny guy," said friend Ted Baughman, who had gone on a climbing trip to Colorado with Augenstein. The second-worst accident for The Mountaineers was a two-person fatality on Mount Rainier in the late 1960s. Recently, however, the club has experienced an unusual string of fatal accidents: a climbing-trip leader died near the base of Lundin Peak near Snoqualmie Pass in 1997; another climber died in the same area on Kendall Peak in 1999 after sliding down a snow-covered slope; and a student on a basic-climbing-class trip in 2001 died after falling on Guye Peak while traversing a section where people travel without ropes. Craig Welch: 206-464-2093 Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Raise your glasses, voices, and hearts to: Johanna Backus Mark Harrison John Augenstein Though each of us were allowed a different measure of knowing their individual Beauty we were kindred as precious water crystals deemed to adorn the same patch of earth for a time They are missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Is a Wake inappropriate? Is the "thread drift" of discussing issues at the core of our lives, provoked by their deaths, dishonoring? Perhaps someone that knew these persons better will speak up as to what those that have passed on would have wished in remembrance of them, but for now, we have this: ...I can feel fairly confident in saying that the last thing she would have wanted would be for any of those friends of hers to give up climbing because of what happened to her. In fact, I believe to do so would dishonor her memory. At times like this, our inertia over action is due to us not knowing how to honor our dead with life. Peace be with you, and all that feel the affects of this accident. I don't understand this post I was trying to honor a friend by pointing out something that I knew to be very--I mean VERY--important to her. If you've got issues, lets take it up on another thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_climb_4_views Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I was fortunate to know and climb with Jo Backus. I'm not sure a year went by without her taking people up The Tooth for their first alpine rock climb. To all aspects of her life she dedicated countless hours and gave of herself: nursing, climbing, church, and more. What an accomplished climber and inspiration! A page of stories, thoughts, and pictures of Jo and her amazing ability to welcome people has begun at the following URL: Tacoma Climbing If you knew Jo, and so many of us did, please send your own stories to mindyr@u.washington.edu for posting and delivery to Jo's family. My condolences for the other climbers and for all the friends and families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing_Climber Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Does anyone know of memorials planned? I heard there might be something at the Seattle Mountaineers on Thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sterlingclimber Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 A memorial has been planned for John, Mark and Jo. Thursday, July 14 7pm to 10pm Mountaineers Club 300 3rd Ave W Seattle, WA (206) 284-6310 Guest can bring a dish to pass if they like and photos to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitergal Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 The Memorials for victims of the July 10 accident on Sharkfin Tower are: Seattle Clubhouse, 300 Third Avenue W, July 14, 7 p.m. This is a pot luck, bring food, photos, memories. Tacoma Clubhouse, 2302 N 30th St, July 18, 7 p.m. This is a reception type event, bring platters of “finger food” goodies. We’ll serve beverages to go with. Bring photos. A church service for Jo Backus is at St Andrew’s Episcopal Church 7410 S 12thSt, Tacoma, July 16. The time is not confirmed at this moment. Memorial Contributions should be marked for Jo’s project HARK (hikes for at-risk kids), a program of incredible significance in Tacoma-Pierce County. We are in the process of making it a tax-deductible foundation which may be capable of funding a part-time staff to continue the much-needed, excellent work Jo started. Contributions can be marked clearly for that purpose, mailed to The Mountaineers, Tacoma Branch, 2302 N 30th, Tacoma WA 98403 The Tacoma clubhouse has been rented for Friday, Saturday and Sunday, to three different important events. So, much to our regret, the shrine to the memory of Jo Backus may be moved during those rental times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitergal Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Sorry Guys...here's the update THE POSTING I JUST SENT YOU A FEW MINUTES AGO NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED. THE CORRECTED VERSION IS BELOW THE MESSAGE I JUST RECEIVED FROM JIM BACKUS ..................... Hi Helen, Wanted to let you know that Tuesday, July 19 in the evening would be great for a service at the Tacoma clubhouse (Multicare will be holding a service earlier in the day at 4:00 p.m. so we can come straight from there to the clubhouse). We'll be holding a service at 3:00 p.m. this Saturday at Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church in Tacoma. Could you pass along that info to anyone you think might be interested? We'd like to suggest donations be made in Jo's name to the Tacoma Mountaineers, Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church and Mary Bridge Children's Hospital/Tacoma General Lactation Clinic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 this is the sadest thing i have read in a while. Peace to all those involved. my heart goes out to everyone touched by this accedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 New details regarding the accident. Unfortunately it appears to be an anchor failure. http://www.skagitvalleyherald.com/articles/2005/07/12/news/news01.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 That's a lot more than simple anchor failure. "The first [rock] struck and injured an experienced climber. The second, refrigerator-sized rock to which four of the climbers were anchored came loose" "The trio was rigging its ropes for its decent when the second rock, about 10 feet across, let loose. The climbers' rope was secured to the large rock. As it went, so did the rope." My condolences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasdair Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 From Komo: SEATTLE - We now know what triggered the rock fall that killed three climbers in the North Cascades. One of three survivors says the climbers used a boulder as an anchor, but that boulder gave way. Climb leader 61-year-old Jo Backus was hit by falling rock and badly injured and needed to be belayed down the mountain (anchored in) so she wouldn't fall. Survivor Janel Fox told her family and boyfriend that the climbers set up a belay - using a boulder for an anchor. They were helping to move injured climber leader Jo Backus down a steep gulley. But once weight was put on the rock anchor, it gave way. Survivor Janel Fox's boyfriend said Janel described the boulder as crumbling and crashing down. It released the anchor and the crumbled rocks headed straight for the climbers -- one boulder as big as a refrigerator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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