Frozen Fingers

[ajm]

Yesterday I was told that I was experiencing the "screaming barfies" - yeah, I never want that feeling again...

 

I am hoping that some ladies(or gents) might have some information on which gloves/mitts to buy to keep cold hands warm. I have always had poor circulation - however I am now trying to learn how to ice climb. Being unable to grip the tools because my hands will not close is an unfortunate way to start learning. I am hoping that someone might have information on climbing in mitts or knowledge on how to keep the blood circulating to my fingers.

 

Are there any other ladies that have experienced this problem?

 

Please no spray. Thanks...

[tread_tramp]

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/417518/an/0/page/1#417518

[DPS]

Try taking asprin and garlic pills. The asprin thins the blood and the garlic makes the platelets less 'sticky' thus improving circulation considerably.

[treknclime]

It’s possible you have Raynaud’s Link to Basic Raynaud's Info

 

The military uses “classical conditioning” as treatment…probably the most effective way:

 

Home Conditioning Abstract

 

Google Raynaud’s and “classical conditioning” for more details how the conditioning is done at home (it’s easy…and fun!). It’s very effective at start, and wears off over time. You’ll need to redo the conditioning from time to time if your problem is indeed Raynaud’s.

 

Lastly…use Grabber Hand Warmers, to reduce the sympathetic response…whenever you’re hands are even slightly exposed to cold, and you’ll reduce the cold finger syndrome (even if you don’t have Raynaud’s). Overdressing the hands…and using mitts whenever possible is also helpful.

 

It’s not the end of the world for your ice climbing…good luck...and experiment!

[carolyn]

a couple tips which helped me avoid the screaming barfies probly 9 times out of 10 last year...

 

*I wear a little fleece pocket-type thing which holds a handwarmer around my wrist. This helps warm up the blood flowing into the hands. You could design your own pretty easily or even tape them to your wrist.

 

*before you start climbing swing your arms individually like a windmill. I do 25 foward and 25 back. If your hands arent warm yet...do more. If I start with cold hands, Im screwed.

 

*Shake out with your hand below your waist. Take our hands out of your leashes or do it with your tool in hand. this will also decrease the pump a bit.

 

*If you are just starting out you should be able to get away with wearing mittens vs gloves, which will obviously keep your hands warmer. The best system I have found is a thin pair of fleece mittens and a pair of WATERPROOF (OR, for example) overmits. DONT get the fleece wet. Be extra diligent. Switch into a pair of down mits or other toasty mits inbetween climbs.

 

*Aspirin - thins blood, better circulation

 

*Start NOT using gloves/mittens when you are walking around town. Get them used to being cold.

 

*Stay hydrated. And if ya gotta pee, do it asap!

 

Hope those ideas help you as much as they have helped me.

 

This year Im bound to find a way to keep my toes warm!!!!

[carolyn]

here is a link with information on the "thermabands"

 

thermaband

[Illini]

You should check to see if you have iron deficency anemia. One of the symptons is poor circulation due to lack of red blood cells. Some thing like 5% of women have this problem (less for men). Check it out and/or consider taking iron supplements and eating more iron rich foods, like raisens.

 

J

[carolyn]

I think its good to be aware of the medical conditions people are refering to and explore them if all else fails. Remember, Its normal for both men and women to experience those screaming barfies while ice climbing. Its normal for both men and women to have very cold hands at some point when youre ice climbing, period. Women tend to have more of an issue with this for a variety of reasons. Be diligent about trying and sticking to some of the suggestions folks have given you above. My guess is you will find some type of combination that will help.

[DPS]

 

*before you start climbing swing your arms individually like a windmill. I do 25 foward and 25 back. If your hands arent warm yet...do more. If I start with cold hands, Im screwed.

 

*Shake out with your hand below your waist. Take our hands out of your leashes or do it with your tool in hand. this will also decrease the pump a bit.

 

 

Good tips.

[Dru]

I have never met ANYONE that didn't get the screaming barfies occasionally.

[fern]

carolyn gives good advice. I would add one point which is: Relax and don't overgrip your tools. You can't make the pick stick in the ice any better by squeezing the handles harder.

[David_Parker]

To add to the fine advice from the chicks with picks....

 

I think one mistake common to many ice climbers is using TOO warm gloves. The extra padding makes it harder to grip the tools and the harder you grip the more restrictive blood flow. Climb in thinner gloves and carry warm mittens or gloves for the belay. Often I find my first lead still gives me the barflies, but thereafter I'm fine for the rest of the day.

 

After you get your tool in, you barely need to grip if you are using leashes. With experience, you will also learn you don't need to bury that tip for it to be secure. Then you don't have to struggle to get it out which also takes more grip.

 

All climbing is really with your feet, so unless it is vertical to overhanging, you shouldn't need to be hanging much on your leashes. Keep your heels low, and (as they say in windsurfing) "fuck the ice" aka push your hips in.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that good technique will help too!

[iain]

Why do the screaming barfies hurt so bad? I've had them when skinning for a long time (hands above my heart, gripping ski poles in the cold), then I stop and swing my arms like carolyn does, and that's when the agony has set in. It has been almost unbearable before.

 

I've found taking the time to keep my hands below heart level for a bit really helps get that blood in there, and if my hands are cold I do a _thorough_ job getting them completely warm again (waiting for the agony to go away!) It's usually on those days were you take your gloves off for a minute to deal with something, then realize you have lost the motor skills to zip up your coat! Ack.

[Ade]

Try taking asprin and garlic pills. The asprin thins the blood and the garlic makes the platelets less 'sticky' thus improving circulation considerably.

 

The downside of this is that you'll also bleed more. I had a very minor surgical procedure a while back and they didn't want me to take asprin the week before for this reason. It started to make me wonder how much more I might bleed should I have an accident and be takin asprin. Given the choice between cold hands and running the risk of bleeding to death I'm with the former. Does anyone know how big an effect asprin has?

[Chad_A]

Try taking asprin and garlic pills. The asprin thins the blood and the garlic makes the platelets less 'sticky' thus improving circulation considerably.

 

 

The downside of this is that you'll also bleed more. I had a very minor surgical procedure a while back and they didn't want me to take asprin the week before for this reason. It started to make me wonder how much more I might bleed should I have an accident and be takin asprin. Given the choice between cold hands and running the risk of bleeding to death I'm with the former. Does anyone know how big an effect asprin has?

 

 

Lots of the patients I work with have aspirin ordered automatically by the MDs; especially if they're a cardiac pt. The data seems to be really strong these days that aspirin has a significant effect with anticoagulation.

 

ACLS states any cardiac pt. should receive MONA:

Morphine

Oxygen

Nitro

Aspirin.

 

'nuff said

[PaulB]

Why do the screaming barfies hurt so bad?

I'm no doctor, but I believe it's simply due to blood moving back into vessels which have constricted due to the cold, or even began freezing slightly (mild frostbite).

[glassgowkiss]

you might have an issue (like a lot of climbers) with tight chest, lateral neck muscles. this can (among other things) cause subclavian artery impingment, hence the blood flow to your upper extermities is decreased. with your hands way above you head for prolonged period of time, the restriction might be severe.

[lummox]

pain is a reminder that you live. fukin a.

[rbw1966]

Try Niacin loading to get those capillaries working.

[DPS]

The downside of this is that you'll also bleed more. I had a very minor surgical procedure a while back and they didn't want me to take asprin the week before for this reason. It started to make me wonder how much more I might bleed should I have an accident and be takin asprin. Given the choice between cold hands and running the risk of bleeding to death I'm with the former. Does anyone know how big an effect asprin has?

 

Once on Triple Couloirs I left a trail of blood all the way up the route. Blood from a tiny cut on my knee would not stop flowing.

[Pandora]

Make sure the rest of your body is warm enough. If it's not, bloodflow will be concentrated in your core instead of extending to your hands.

[icegirl]

Make sure your leashes don't snug down to tight on your wrists when weighted therefore cutting off blood flow...

 

Yeah, like pandora said... Wear a hat! Those smartwool beanies for climbing and something WARM that fits under your helmet at the belay.

 

I do the same as DP re; thin gloves, climb in black diamond "Ice" gloves or the Smartwool Leathers, (both over a liner glove) and then at the belay use some variant on mittens, mitten shells over warm gloves, I do tend to carry a couple extra pairs of the liner gloves... The chemical warmers are good, I usually put them on the outside of my liner gloves (less itchy) keep in mind that the wamers need oxygen to work, so the tighter and more form fitting your gloves (and boots are for that matter) the "less" warm they will get, but on the bright side the longer they will last. It's always a pleasant surprise on the way down from some long climb, it's cold, dark, you are damp, etc, when you notice how tosty your hands are

 

Aspirin ibuprofin, Naproxin, etc..(and garlic) all make ya bleed. We recommend stopping such things for 10 days to 2 weeks prior to surgery (if I remember correctly...)

 

There is another thread currently discussing some of the pros and cons of tylenol vs NSAIDS in the body fitness forum.