Greg_W Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 I ain't Rick James, Bitch!!! Read me. What a bunch of hogwash. "International election monitors" in the United States? What happened to our sense of sovereignty? I am totally disgusted that members of our government (yes, on both sides) would allow this even on an "advisory" basis. We're not some third-rate banana republic holding our first election after a civil war. This is a new low... Quote
cj001f Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 We're not some third-rate banana republic holding our first election after a civil war. This is a new low... Florida would beg to differ. Quote
RuMR Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 if it'll keep that clownpuncher from getting defeated again, errrrr, winning again...i'm for it... Quote
Jim Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Given our last track record I was hoping Jimmy Carter and friends would take the lead. Remember Florida - A governor who is brother to the candidate fixes the voter roles with help from the wicked witch of the east (check out "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" for the details), and a president is placed in power by a Supreme Court margin of one by appointees from the candidate's father's administration. Could be talking about Panama eh? Quote
bunglehead Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Maybe they'll be checking to see if the newfangled electronic voting machines will print out receipts. Quote
cracked Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 The Euros are going to fix the election. If Bush loses it's their fault, and I'll be able to bitch about it for the next four years. Quote
selkirk Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 I'd much rather hear you whine then spend another 4 years with GW in office! Quote
foraker Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 You think that's bad? I was listening some goober (from another country) on the radio once who was saying that since we have a disproportionate influence on world affairs, the rest of the world should be allowed to vote in our elections. Quote
ashw_justin Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 You think that's bad? I was listening some goober (from another country) on the radio once who was saying that since we have a disproportionate influence on world affairs, the rest of the world should be allowed to vote in our elections. ROFLMAO Is that before or after we take them over? Quote
willstrickland Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 "International election monitors" in the United States? This is a new low... Actually, there is nothing "new" about it. The reciprocation agreement is from 1990. We also had some of them here during the last ('02) midterm elections. My understanding is that they will have no power of any kind, but will only issue some type of report after the elections to spotlight potential problems. How is this a bad thing? We may be the beacon of democracy, but let's no kid ourselves, shady shit goes on in elections, even here. I'll skip the Florida 2000 bit because it's been hashed to death, so here's another example: Illinois 1960. Kennedy's victory was more than likely the product of Daly's manipulation of the election. We are not giving up anything, only inviting a delegation of somewhat disinterested people to observe and tell us if they see problems. Surely transparancy is a good thing in a democratic election? Quote
swaterfall Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 We're not some third-rate banana republic holding our first election after a civil war. Agreed. So we've got nothing to hide, right? Quote
Lars Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 its about sovereignty, not transparency...we dont owe a fucking thing to the rest of the world when it comes to our own elections Quote
foraker Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 ROFLMAO Is that before or after we take them over? It would definitely be after I sprayed Coke out my nose..... Quote
JoshK Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 its about sovereignty, not transparency...we dont owe a fucking thing to the rest of the world when it comes to our own elections Who said we owe them anything? The point is people WITHIN OUR COUNTRY want an outside observing presence. Once again Lars demonstrates his inability to grasp a simple subject. Quote
Ducknut Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 its about sovereignty, not transparency...we dont owe a fucking thing to the rest of the world when it comes to our own elections We aren't letting them vote or dictate the procedures. It has nothing to do with sovereignty, but everything with transparency. I guess you think the rest of world owes us everything when it comes to their elections? Paranoid? Quote
Greg_W Posted August 12, 2004 Author Posted August 12, 2004 (edited) "International election monitors" in the United States? This is a new low... Actually, there is nothing "new" about it. The reciprocation agreement is from 1990. We also had some of them here during the last ('02) midterm elections. My understanding is that they will have no power of any kind, but will only issue some type of report after the elections to spotlight potential problems. How is this a bad thing? We may be the beacon of democracy, but let's no kid ourselves, shady shit goes on in elections, even here. I'll skip the Florida 2000 bit because it's been hashed to death, so here's another example: Illinois 1960. Kennedy's victory was more than likely the product of Daly's manipulation of the election. We are not giving up anything, only inviting a delegation of somewhat disinterested people to observe and tell us if they see problems. Surely transparancy is a good thing in a democratic election? I see your points, Will. However, it worries me that we have Leaders of our Country essentially saying to the World, "we can't manage ourselves, come help us." It's a political move, without a doubt, made by those who see value in greater control and oversight by groups like the United Nations. To me, this has the potential to be yet another attempt to subvert our sovereignty to the UN. Sure, I know that many of you will call me paranoid, and maybe I am a bit, but that's okay. I believe in America and the unique for of governance that we have been experimenting with for the last 223 years. It rubs me wrong to think that other Americans are so ready to beg for foreign help instead of seriously looking to fix the problem ourselves. So now one of you liberals will say, "Oh, but it's okay that WE go in and do the same to other countries." Well, no, I never said that; let's stick to the issue at hand. I don't like it. I think it's a mistake. I think those who want this are making a issue where one may not exist. And I think that the State Department has no jurisdiction, Constitutionally, to request such oversight. The Federal Elections are governed by the individual States. That's my opinion, like it or not; I don't care. Express yours, if you wish. Save your bashing of my right-wing ideology, it doesn't affect me or sway me - Fuck off, in advance. Oh, and to those of you who say, 'we have nothing to hide, what's the big deal?' Would you feel the same way about inspectors/observers knocking on your door at home? You've got nothing to hide, right? Greg_W Edited August 12, 2004 by Greg_W Quote
Ratboy Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 The incestuousness of the 2000 election in Florida rightly raised many eyebrows and is a fine example of how our system can be manipulated (note, I said "can be", not "was"). But this is our problem, not the UN's, not other countries'. Everyone else should keep their nose out of it. Quote
slothrop Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 This is a great idea. As to the notion that "we should fix it ourselves," it seems to me that we've been trying, but fucked-up shit still happens, like election-machine companies being allowed to give money to political candidates and thousands of Hispanic felons (who generally vote Republican) "accidentally" left off a list of ineligible voters in Florida. The current administration is in no position, politically, to push for badly-needed election reform, so the motivation to do so has to come from somewhere else (i.e., the Democrats, concerned citizens, etc.). Quote
Jim Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 I don't like it. I think it's a mistake. I think those who want this are making a issue where one may not exist. And I think that the State Department has no jurisdiction, Constitutionally, to request such oversight. The Federal Elections are governed by the individual States. Greg_W And the Federal Elections Commission, and both houses of Congress through their Admistrative Committee, and the Justice Department throught the Voting Rights Act. Quote
cj001f Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 Oh, and to those of you who say, 'we have nothing to hide, what's the big deal?' Would you feel the same way about inspectors/observers knocking on your door at home? You've got nothing to hide, right? They are auditors. Auditors with no enforcement powers. They have no jurisdiction. Quote
rbw1966 Posted August 12, 2004 Posted August 12, 2004 We send election monitors to other countries all the time. Whats the big deal with us practicing what we preach? Quote
Fairweather Posted August 13, 2004 Posted August 13, 2004 Actually, Greg, I don't have a problem with it, as long as their after-action report isn't politically biased or motivated by disdain over the realization of Bush's second term. We allow international inspectors into our nuclear facilities under the non-proliferation treaty, so why not let them come in and see how elections are done? However, as with all UN business, the "observations" are sure to become meddling eventually. Anyway, isn't the UN too busy helping out in The Sudan to worry about American elections? Quote
Greg_W Posted August 13, 2004 Author Posted August 13, 2004 It's the precedent and the opportunity to encroach even more in the future that worries me, Fairweather. YOu know the operators within the U.N. lust for power like our own Congressmen and President. Quote
Beck Posted August 13, 2004 Posted August 13, 2004 Maybe the UN will impeach Bush and Cheney for war crimes. Quote
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