gapertimmy Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 this is a follow up from another thread. i've done some investigating, haven't contacted the FS yet, but that is my next step, found this interesting read about the Road 18 (china hat) lava tubes SE of bend: Overall at least maintained current fluency, accuracy and comprehension levels of reading. web page in particular some interesting tidbits found in the appendix of the above document: The caves open for ``sport climbing'' are only Skeleton, Hidden Forest I believe the Hidden Forest cave actually had some bolted lines at one point in time. Have folks on the site here been ticketed by FS rangers or asked to not climb? I'm curious as to what they have said. The above document also talks about the Access Fund getting involved around the time of its writing. Just trying to get the scoop, any more info would be 'preciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 the rock is kinda crappy in tubes. its like there is a reason its hollow or sumpin. at least the tubes i seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 skeleton cave is the perfect place for beer caving. for climbing the landings i examined are doubleplusungood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I've been in Skeleton Cave and Wind Cave down there by Bend (back in about 1989). Which one is the one with the hole in the roof where you could lower the beer down by a rope? I remember both those caves were way cool (my first lava tubes). One of them had some radical squeeze spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurthicks Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 why don't you give Chris Sabo a call at the FS in Bend? he seems to be the "man" of sorts in the newspaper. I think thta he's the Recreation Guy there; he might have an answer for you...it might not be a good one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 gapertimmy said: this is a follow up from another thread. i've done some investigating, haven't contacted the FS yet, but that is my next step, found this interesting read about the Road 18 (china hat) lava tubes SE of bend: Overall at least maintained current fluency, accuracy and comprehension levels of reading. web page in particular some interesting tidbits found in the appendix of the above document: The caves open for ``sport climbing'' are only Skeleton, Hidden Forest I believe the Hidden Forest cave actually had some bolted lines at one point in time. Have folks on the site here been ticketed by FS rangers or asked to not climb? I'm curious as to what they have said. The above document also talks about the Access Fund getting involved around the time of its writing. Just trying to get the scoop, any more info would be 'preciated. Timmy, I was actually at Skeleton and watched the rangers move rocks under the boulder problems and told us that if we were caught using chalk, we'd get a $50 fine. And yeah, there used to be bolted routes at Hidden Forest. As a matter of fact, the caves are a segment in "Masters of Stone II" It opens with Skeleton and a tagline that reads "Somewhere in Oregon" I probl'y have more. I'll post as I remember, or you can pm me for beta. -Ron Also, I believe Larry Brumwell has some beta about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 chalk doesn't belong in caves. neither do bolts in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 bunglehead said: Timmy, I was actually at Skeleton and watched the rangers move rocks under the boulder problems names. i need names. who the fuck are these fuckers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayner Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 In their selfish quest to climb anything boltable, some sportey's are now turning to caves???? If the abuses on your basic rock faces aren't enough to provoke official attention, perhaps this will. Keep your chalk and sport-bolts out of the tubes. What's next? Maybe some scenic subterannean stalactites with some heinously smooth crimps? "It was awesome dude! Make sure you spell my name correctly in the guide!" [My Favorite Underground Crags in Oregon: Volume 2: Limestone Classics] - Dwayner P.S. Makes me wanna puke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 "Mooooom!!! Dwayner's dissing my stalactite!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 NOW turning to caves?! Climbers have been using those caves for years! I do agree with the bolting shit, though. That's total bullshit, and one of the reasons we climbing scumbags aren't allowed to recreate in the caves anymore. And if one absolutely insists on using chalk, a chalk ball works nicely, and scrub those damn holds when yer done! the climbing at Skeleton was super duper fun when it was accessible though. (Well, like Timmay pointed out, it's still allowed, but they sure are dicks about it) Oh and I know we covered this in a previous thread, but it sill pisses me off that climbers get singled out. Vandalism is ignored but bouldering is regulated: Typical USFS BULLSHIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryland_moore Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dwayner, these aren't caves of the limestone variety, they are hollowed out lava tuves made of volcanic rock. In talking with Kimball from Eugene, he was telling me that you can still climb in them, just do not use any chalk. As for bolted routes, I always thought there were lines in there, just not sure if a) they were chopped or b) you are allowed to put up others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapertimmy Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 meat gazin dwayner, just trying to get some info on it thats all. why do you always have to turn any post that is remotely related to sport climbing into a bolting debate? effin chill dur! Besides, one should come see the "wild" nature of these "caves" first before passing judgement. There is one closer to town, not really party of the Arnold group that is super trashed, spray paint, old fridges, just sick. I think that chalk does not have its place in the tubes, but there are obviously some other resource "users" out there that cause much more impact than someone climbing around in the opening of said caves. furthermore, it seems there is some mixed policing going on, and/or the policies are unclear regarding the use of the China Hat caves, just trying to get the access info straight. I for one did not know I can't take me mutts down the tubes, now I know so I guess my quest for info is somewhat worthwhile so far. spray on homey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 gapertimmy said: I for one did not know I can't take me mutts down the tubes, now I know so I guess my quest for info is somewhat worthwhile so far. spray on homey! I didn't know that either! Man, I've taken my mutt down there at least a dozen times. Oopsy daisy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayner Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Brother Ryland say: "Dwayner, these aren't caves of the limestone variety, they are hollowed out lava tuves made of volcanic rock." I realize that. I've done a lot of caving in tubes (in fact, the closest I ever came to losing my life was in such a cave.) Fellow meat-gazer Timmy: I think caves should be treated with respect, even though many of them are trashed. They are special environments and spelunkers (myself included), usually make a good effort to keep them as natural as possible. It would be sad to see some of them dismissed with the attitude., "ah....they're wrecked or chossy anyway...nobody cares...might as well sport-bolt them!". I've heard that same argument given for such places as Little Si, Exit 38 and even Vantage. I say, clean 'em up. Pull out the garbage and restore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunglehead Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dwayner, Unfortunately, the second you clean em up, some prehensile tailed mouth breathers trash it again. And Hidden Forest, when the bolts were placed, was a relatively pristine environment. That was like ten years ago though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 bunglehead said: Dwayner, Unfortunately, the second you clean em up, some prehensile tailed mouth breathers trash it again. And Hidden Forest, when the bolts were placed, was a relatively pristine environment. That was like ten years ago though. Hidden Forest "cave" is more crag than cave. Like a crag with an arse hole. It's basically half a funnel on its side, in sort of a basalt-walled bowl. Out the arse end of the "cave" is some choice bouldering in another bowl. The thing's about 150' deep, and it ain't even dark all the way back. Hardly seems like the type of environment where you'd do much caving, since as soon as it starts to turn dark, you're out the other side. At any rate, none of the bolts or climbing are more than about 100 feet back in any of the three climbable caves that DFA has been in (i.e. Skeleton, Wind, and Hidden Forest), 'cause it's too damn dark to climb in there. Is a resource really destroyed when 1/100th of it sees a different kind of use than the rest? This is like saying your favorite trail is ruined 'cause the first 100' are a parking area or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 There is some "OK" bouldering in Skeleton Cave. The rock is too sharp for much. It is more fun for me just to hike and explore in them. They are a nice break from the Summer heat when at Smith Rocks. I want to go to them now! I love it down there. I grew up in Redmond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa_Eagle Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I have no problem with climbing in caves so long as there are no bolts or chalk. Whenever I go caving, I leave things as they were before I got there. No dumping of spent carbide/batteries, no litter, etc. I try to pick up whatever trash I see in caves, within reason (the amount of trash in some caves would require a much bigger bag than I carry.) I don't think that the "well, it's only in the first 100 feet" argument really holds much water. Some caves aren't much longer than this. And even if it's a longer cave, why should we have to walk through crap to get to the good stuff? Chalk and bolts have their place, and inside caves is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Ursa_Eagle said: I have no problem with climbing in caves so long as there are no bolts or chalk. Whenever I go caving, I leave things as they were before I got there. No dumping of spent carbide/batteries, no litter, etc. I try to pick up whatever trash I see in caves, within reason (the amount of trash in some caves would require a much bigger bag than I carry.) I don't think that the "well, it's only in the first 100 feet" argument really holds much water. Some caves aren't much longer than this. And even if it's a longer cave, why should we have to walk through crap to get to the good stuff? Chalk and bolts have their place, and inside caves is not one of them. If someone was trying to close down a regular ol' crag because of chalk or bolts (or whatever) so they could just look at it or walk by it, most climbers would be in a severe uproar (and usually are). Why the double-standard when it comes to caves? A cave doesn't seem any more ruined by routes than a regular cliff does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dr_Flash_Amazing said:Why the double-standard when it comes to caves? A cave doesn't seem any more ruined by routes than a regular cliff does. Less caves? :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 No rain in caves to wash chalk away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 You can still climb in caves when it's raining outside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpinfox Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Here is a weird thing I came across: Where in the world is "Snafflehound Cavern"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I gotta go there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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