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JGowans

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Greg_W said:

trask said:

blah blah blah blah blah blah ad nauseum barf

 

And, how does that make you feel, Trask? Mhm, hmmmm; very good...yes...does that bother you? Mhmmm...hmmmm. Really. And how would you respond to that?....Yes, it's okay to cry....

I'm sorry kids. I'm way outta line. Seeing as how I'm not a touchy-feely kind a guy, I am insensitive to these types of feelings. I'll go sit in the corner for awhile and reflect on the errors of my ways. Carry on. crazy.gif

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trask said:

Greg_W said:

trask said:

blah blah blah blah blah blah ad nauseum barf

 

And, how does that make you feel, Trask? Mhm, hmmmm; very good...yes...does that bother you? Mhmmm...hmmmm. Really. And how would you respond to that?....Yes, it's okay to cry....

I'm sorry kids. I'm way outta line. Seeing as how I'm not a touchy-feely kind a guy, I am insensitive to these types of feelings. I'll go sit in the corner for awhile and reflect on the errors of my ways. Carry on. crazy.gif

 

Euphemism for 'play with myself' hellno3d.gif

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Greg_W said:

kitten said:

But forgiveness and love are selfless acts. If you can do these two things after being hurt - it is selfless. Only when there are no expectations attached.

 

I may regret bringing this back up, but what the hell. Again, I will say that the definition of 'selfless' and 'selfish' have been bastardized; mainly by mainstream religion. What is the 'self'? It is your essence, your mind, your spirit; those unique things that make up YOU. To be selfless would be to deny those things. True 'selflessness' is denial of your mind and a betrayal of that which makes up your set of ideals and precepts. If it is within your person to be forgiving, that is not selfless, it is selfish; defining 'selfish' as being true to yourself and your ideals. In your example, regardless of expectations, one stands to gain, or hopes to gain, some benefit from their action of forgiveness. Yes? Therefore, forgiveness is a selfish act. There is nothing wrong with selfishness when defined this way. 'Society' (another dubiously bastardized word) has taken it's own meaning of 'selfish' and preached the evils of living for yourself instead of some ethereal 'greater good' of all people.

 

You make a good argument. TO EACH HIS OWN! bigdrink.gif

Some will believe what is in thier hearts, thier minds, or what others tell them. Each one of us has our own time and process to figure shit out thumbs_up.gif

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"I may regret bringing this back up, but what the hell. Again, I will say that the definition of 'selfless' and 'selfish' have been bastardized; mainly by mainstream religion. What is the 'self'? It is your essence, your mind, your spirit; those unique things that make up YOU. To be selfless would be to deny those things. True 'selflessness' is denial of your mind and a betrayal of that which makes up your set of ideals and precepts. If it is within your person to be forgiving, that is not selfless, it is selfish; defining 'selfish' as being true to yourself and your ideals. In your example, regardless of expectations, one stands to gain, or hopes to gain, some benefit from their action of forgiveness. Yes? Therefore, forgiveness is a selfish act. There is nothing wrong with selfishness when defined this way. 'Society' (another dubiously bastardized word) has taken it's own meaning of 'selfish' and preached the evils of living for yourself instead of some ethereal 'greater good' of all people."

 

Forgiveness is about more than just gaining something for yourself, though (or it should be). It's about humbling yourself, restoring something good between both yourself and the other person/people, admitting that you were wrong, etc. And that definition of "selflessness" sounds kind of paranoid. DFA strongly doubts that any religion (short of your brainwashed cults, which hardly qualify as religions) really espouses the relinquishing of one's mind or self-determination for anything; but rather the making of sacrifices for your friends and neighbors and enemies and, you know, the common good.

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

"I may regret bringing this back up, but what the hell. Again, I will say that the definition of 'selfless' and 'selfish' have been bastardized; mainly by mainstream religion. What is the 'self'? It is your essence, your mind, your spirit; those unique things that make up YOU. To be selfless would be to deny those things. True 'selflessness' is denial of your mind and a betrayal of that which makes up your set of ideals and precepts. If it is within your person to be forgiving, that is not selfless, it is selfish; defining 'selfish' as being true to yourself and your ideals. In your example, regardless of expectations, one stands to gain, or hopes to gain, some benefit from their action of forgiveness. Yes? Therefore, forgiveness is a selfish act. There is nothing wrong with selfishness when defined this way. 'Society' (another dubiously bastardized word) has taken it's own meaning of 'selfish' and preached the evils of living for yourself instead of some ethereal 'greater good' of all people."

 

Forgiveness is about more than just gaining something for yourself, though (or it should be). It's about humbling yourself, restoring something good between both yourself and the other person/people, admitting that you were wrong, etc. And that definition of "selflessness" sounds kind of paranoid. DFA strongly doubts that any religion (short of your brainwashed cults, which hardly qualify as religions) really espouses the relinquishing of one's mind or self-determination for anything; but rather the making of sacrifices for your friends and neighbors and enemies and, you know, the common good.

 

DFA; You are right, that is not why you forgive; but inherent in the act something is gained. Have you ever seen those bumper stickers, "Let Go and Let God"? Sounds like a relinquishment of self-determination and responsibility to me.

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Greg_W said:

 

 

DFA; You are right, that is not why you forgive; but inherent in the act something is gained. Have you ever seen those bumper stickers, "Let Go and Let God"? Sounds like a relinquishment of self-determination and responsibility to me.

 

Perhaps in that case, yeah, which would be more an abuse or blatant misinterpretation of Christian dogma, it sounds like. In which case, too bad for whomever thinks they need not think.

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Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

Greg_W said:

 

 

Perhaps in that case, yeah, which would be more an abuse or blatant misinterpretation of Christian dogma, it sounds like. In which case, too bad for whomever thinks they need not think.

 

Who said that forgiving or sacrificing does not involve thinking? confused.gif They are decisions that would take a lot of thought and determination. They are two acts that don't come easy in our society. It is a "ME" or "I" world and the 'greater good' is often forgotten - such as the "WE" of marriage and family. hellno3d.gif I personally find it very sad and disappointing frown.gif

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kitten said:

Dr_Flash_Amazing said:

Greg_W said:

 

 

Perhaps in that case, yeah, which would be more an abuse or blatant misinterpretation of Christian dogma, it sounds like. In which case, too bad for whomever thinks they need not think.

 

Who said that forgiving or sacrificing does not involve thinking? confused.gif They are decisions that would take a lot of thought and determination. They are two acts that don't come easy in our society. It is a "ME" or "I" world and the 'greater good' is often forgotten - such as the "WE" of marriage and family. hellno3d.gif I personally find it very sad and disappointing frown.gif

 

Nobody said that. I was addressing two points to the "Dumb Fucking Asshole" and maybe they looked like they were related. There is no "greater good" because someone is always left out in the cold. "Society" begins with the individual.

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Greg_W said:

[

Greg_W said:

 

 

 

Nobody said that. I was addressing two points to the "Dumb Fucking Asshole" and maybe they looked like they were related. There is no "greater good" because someone is always left out in the cold. "Society" begins with the individual.

 

rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

Maybe you should start over in preschool & learn to share yellaf.gifyellaf.gif

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kitten said:

Greg_W said:

[

Greg_W said:

 

 

 

Nobody said that. I was addressing two points to the "Dumb Fucking Asshole" and maybe they looked like they were related. There is no "greater good" because someone is always left out in the cold. "Society" begins with the individual.

 

rolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gifrolleyes.gif

Maybe you should start over in preschool & learn to share yellaf.gifyellaf.gif

 

I failed "sharing".

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