Why ice climbing is now and will always be a risky affair...

[dan_e]

I was thinking more about this after reading the post by Dru under 'Colorado Ice Conditions' about the guy that was killed by falling ice recently.

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=28&t=000038

It's still bugs me when I hear or read statements like, "The advent of modern ice climbing gear has made ice climbing safe and fun for the masses, ect". I had a discussion with a guy today and we were talking about the gear we used to climb with (he is old school, climbed back in the 80's with wooden shaft tools, ect.) I caught the end of the 'old-school era' Rigid friends will still common and all ice tools were straight shaft, my ice rack consisted mainly of fat snargs, my first crampons were Salewa 'Messner Scissors', ect. Anyway, we were talking about how ice climbing is still dangerous (duh!) and that modern gear is safer, but that does not mean ice climbing, per se is safer.

So what's my point? Well, this accident goes to show that no matter what we have for gear, ice climbing is risky, much more than most orther types of climbing (with exceptions of course).

So as most of us already know, but just for fun I made a list of things that can go wrong while ice climbing (feel free to add your favorite!). I also commented on how often these things happen from what I've experienced. (?) means I've heard about it, but it's never happened to me or I have never personally seen it happen, and or I don't know for sure how often it happens.

ropes freeze and get stuck (too often!)

screws pull or fail (?)

picks break (occasionally)

crampons and even boots fall off (rare) tools get dropped (occasionally)

gloves freeze (often)

fingers get frostbitten (occasionally)

eyes get ice chips stuck in them (?)

heads get hit with ice tools and people get knocked out (Rare, but I've seen this happen!)

ice breaks, fractures, and falls on you (often!)

the piece of ice you are climbing on falls with you attached! (rare)

ice melts and you get wet (often! especially now!)

climbers drown in waterfalls (rare)

legs, necks and other body parts get broken when you fall (often! So of course we don't fall!)

avalanches sweep climbers off the ice (too often!)

and last....

climbers get frozen into solid blocks ofice! (very rare)

Yes it's true, it happened to a guy on the Eiger, although he was probably dead before he froze behind solid ice, but still!

Source: Eiger Wall of Death by Arthur Roth

Dan E.

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: dan e ]

[genepires]

avalanche on approach or descent

rappel anchor failure

slips on ice

crampon catches on something and then fall over

[Cpt.Caveman]

I like ice. Too bad he got hurt. I am still going to climb ice though. Hopefully I will not get hurt.

I dont know if it is safer but I am cowardice and not as bold on ice as on bomber granite.

[Figger_Eight]

Fall through a frozen lake / river

Puncture wound from any one of the sharp points attached to you.

Trampled by a Moose.

[kevin_page]

Live near Banks Lake, die of boredom. (once)

Sleeping in vehicle, carbon monoxide poisoning. (two)

Scoping routes while driving, crash. (often)

Sagebrush rappel anchor breaks. (almost)

Snowboarder lands on you. (always)

Hick deputy spots paraphernalia. (never)

Drink too much and only tr. (even when you don't drink)

[Retrosaurus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kevin page:

old and stiff

---

Don't you mean old and not nearly stiff enough anymore?

[kevin_page]

Retrosnorus, how've you been?

the answer is no.

[freeclimb9]

The temporary existence of ice and its propensity to fail are the real dangers of ice-climbing, not funky equipment. Ice deforms under its own weight, and the rate of deformation accelerates with time; the stuff is coming down always. Knowing when an ice-climb has gone, or is about to go, nuclear is the best way to avoid the chop, though it's tough to quell the psych and walk away. When ice is good, or bad, it's easy to make the decision to climb, or not. The toughest calls are when conditions are marginal.

It also bugs me somewhat when authors make references to ice-climbing being so much safer than it used to be since the quality of protection --though much easier to place and able to hold better due to thread re-designs-- is still totally dependent on ice quality. Bad ice=Bad pro.

BTW, the most gnarly accident I read about was a drowning. The leader fell through the ice shell into the cascade underneath when near the top of a climb. He was hauled out hours later.

[Scott_J]

This is an old and true cliche: There are old ice climbers, but there are no old bold ice climbers. Yes, I have had my share of exciting times on ice and I too like Captain Caveman am very aware of the risks. A sharp eye, a keen sense of awarness and above all follow your feelings. I have backed off of things that I have done a week before and again I have lead things that partners have felt too risky, but then I have had this happen to me also. Ice is nice and shall suffice, but heed its fickledness.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I think I have found that ice is good somewhere near 25 degrees F. It's really plasticy and not so brittle making for easier tool and screw placements. Last month it was around that temp and ice had running water on top. Looked really brittle from below but when I went up there and sunk my tools in it they sunk into the butter

As far as ice changing and possibly at a rapid rate well I think that yes ice does dictate when you get good pro and bad like freeclimb9 sez.

Still ice climbing is dangerous but some hazards can be carefully calculated or prepared for and some obviously not.

Be safe fellow ice warriors

[max]

From climbingboulder.com :

Be careful out there.....--------------------------------------From: "Malcolm Daly" Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:18:38 -0700

Myke,

Here is something to post on the site about Rod Willard.

Mal

Hi,For those of you whom I have not met, I am Kerry Evens, Rod's wife of 4 months. I wanted to e-mail everyone on his list to let you know of some tragic news. Rod was killed in an unbelievable ice climbing accident on Jan. 5, 2002. Briefly: he was the belayer when an approximately 400# block of ice broke free and struck him on the top of his helmeted (of course) head. Death was almost instantaneous, he was attended to immediately by friends who were EMT and ER nurse. Everything that could have been done was done. It is comforting to me to know he died in the mountains, the environment he loved over all others, and that he was with dear friends. For an avid climber like Rod, there is no better way he would have chosen to die. His memorial service will be held Wednesday Jan. 9, 2002 at the American Baptist Church in Fort Collins Colorado at 10AM. The address of the church is 600 S. Shields St. in Fort Collins. The service will be preceded by a processional of fire trucks, ambulances, police vehicles, Search and Rescue vehicles and AirLife of Greeley helicopter. The processional is planned to begin at Poudre Valley Hospital at about 9:20AM and go to the church from there. We are encouraging people to line the streets from the church to honor Rod as the processional goes by. There are several memorial funds being set up should anyone want to contribute in Rod's name. Poudre Valley Ambulance Service is setting up at scholarship fund for funding others in Paramedic school. Also, Rod supported Friends of Tibet, whose address can be found on the internet. I am so sorry to have to share this devastating news with you all. I know that everyone who knew Rod was a better person for knowing him and he was well loved and will be sorely missed. Yours in Sorrow, Kerry

PS: This accident happened while Rod was belaying a climber on "The Little Thang", aka, "The Seventh Tenacle", "The Frigid Inseminator". This has been the site of at least two other serious accidents, one of them resulting in a death. The Little Thang is the mixed climb directly behind the Fang in Vail, and offers some of the best "sport" ice climbing around. For those who think that sport ice climbing is safe (whatever that means) this accident should serve as a wake up call. Be careful out there...please. - Malcolm Daly

[freeclimb9]

I've written an article on ice that may help ice-climbers know their chosen medium better. Why this article has been denied publication in both Rock&Ice and Climbing is a mystery to me; Something about "editorial format"? I think it's good information even if the article isn't written in a compelling way. Maybe this'll be of interest to some of you: www.iceclimb.com/science.html

[willstrickland]

The mags are fickle. They typically have a pretty heavy editing hand, so it's beyond me why they would offer the "style" thing as a reason not to publish it. I wrote a gear review on a Fish One night stand portaledge and pitched it to Climbing for their "Just out" section. Tyler (Stableford), a nice guy, eventually wrote me saying that they were in the midst of a full-on portaledge test that would be published soon and declined to run it (my piece). A few months later the test comes out and the ledge I wrote about wasn't even included in the test. I've been meaning to re-pitch it to them, but keep spacing it.

[pope]

Eleven years ago on New Year's Day, I watched Narada Falls collapse just about an hour after we had climbed it. I was at the overlook across the canyon when I heard a "pop". I looked over at the falls and noticed a horizontal crack at about 2/3-height. Then the whole shit-house came down, with Volkswagen-sized blocks and icy bursts of water creating a thunderous cacophony. The resulting pile of ice rubble reached a height of about ten feet, centered at the exact spot where we'd set our belay.

It had been in the upper teens for nearly two weeks leading up to that day, which was overcast and about 32 degrees. I was never comfortable climbing water ice after that episode. When you see such a sight, you begin to understand why Big Lou says he wants to die an old man, in bed in front of the television.

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

[mattp]

I disagree with just about everyone in this discussion: in my view, not only has ice climbing not become any safer at all with modern equipment but has in fact become MORE dangerous. The ease with which one can climb a waterfall using bent shaft tools and vertical point crampons makes the activity seemingly less serious and you have people with little or no mountain sense spending time in an environment that has all of the hazards mentioned above. Similarly, the development of easier-to-place ice screws and the prospect of a "free" rappel from an Abolokav (sp) thread, lures intermediate climbers to climbs that only the experts would have tried twenty years ago.

[allthumbs]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pope:

When you see such a sight, you begin to understand why Big Lou says he wants to die an old man, in bed in front of the television.

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: pope ]

---

Wow.

[KeithKSchultz]

I used to climb ice a lot. What a great way to get off when the weather won't let you climb rock. Then I got married which really didn't change my inner calm much since she was an adult (I swear) and knew she was marrying a climber. But then she got pregnant (I still assume I am the father) and my world of ice came crumbling down around my ears. The inherent danger was only too true when I had to face children of climbers who died. Climbers I knew and trusted.

In December of 1977 I had just completed a traverse of the Bob Marshall Wilderness on skis. We took our ice tools. We climbed everything we could find. Two of us were standing on the rim of the gorge of the North Fork of the Blackfoot falls scoping out lines when the unimaginable happened. The entire 100 foot 25 foot diameter column of ice cracked, snapped, and collapsed into the pool below. The sound was deafening and the carnage was just incredible. The pool was mostly frozen over and the chunks of ice that pelted the walls on all sides dislodged large rocks and soaked everything in a matter of 4 or 5 seconds. Twenty minutes later we would have been on it. So much for that first ascent.

Sure it's safer now. But you'll be just as dead when your luck sucks.

[TimL]

Ice climbing, like everyone says, is scary stuff. I started ice climbing last season. Unlike other mediums of climbing, I plan on learning as much as I can before start agreesively pushing harder grades. It was a learning and humbling experience this weekend watching a guy take a good 30 ft. screamer on lead. The guy walked away unhurt but the experience was enough to make me want to puke.

[specialed]

Lets just dwell on all the dangers and possible things that can go wrong when you're out climbing that way we'll just freak ourselves out thinking of all the heinous and painful ways to die when tools and pieces of gear pop and the friction doesn't exist. Whatever you do don't trust any gear or believe in your skill or ability when you're out climbing. TV's pretty good and safe. I'm gunna give up climbing and drink Mickey's with Dwayner.

[pope]

Hey Special Ed,

It's not lack of confidence in my skill, ability and judgement that keep me off of water ice these days. It is the unpredictable nature of the medium and a couple of bad experiences. Having said that, I used to think climbing ice was funner/better than climbing rock, and if your head is into it, have a good time and be safe.

[mattp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by specialed:

TV's pretty good and safe. I'm gunna give up climbing and drink Mickey's with Dwayner.

---

Have you ever heard of electromagnetic radiation? Liver damage? That Duaner is one gnarly dude, taking his chances with the grim reaper that way! You're going to die a young death, my friend.

[pope]

EMR's gonna getcha boy! Back away from the monitor and put down that six-pack!

[specialed]

That's not true that EMR causes brain damage. I know because the little green man who lives in my kitchen cupboard told me. He's my friend. I just can't stand it when the household appliances laugh at me. I say toaster shut up, shut up! Stop looking at me toaster!

[KeithKSchultz]

I already gave up climbing for TV. Except when Bay Watch isn't on. Then I get online and tell lies like everybody else.

[Alex]

desperation swings, pumped out, at the top of a pitch when you've already been running it out because you started fading placing that last screw (often enough)

placement dinner-plates, hits foot which pops, possibley popping one or both tools (rare)

glasses fog up and you cant see shit (often)

drop glasses trying to clear them of fog (sometimes)

start relying on hooking on lead because you know if you stop to place solid, you'll not make it up (rare, but happens)

climb into terrain that you cant v-thread out of, so are forced to downclimb or go for it (all the time in the Cascades)

putter up something while belayer is setting up, to see if the ice gets better, next thing you know you are soloing thin craziness to the top because you can't downclimb anymore (happened at N Face of Pitchoff, NY, Weeping Winds. Gnarly!)

-------------

so, wow, yeah I have always considered myself a very safe ice climber, but you know after reviewing this list, all of which has happened to me at one time or another, it really is sick