RMI, is it any good?

[Attitude]

To the of Rainier.

[thol]

If you want cheap RMI wait a year and take a mountaineering class or summit climb from oregon state university, the guy who leads the weekend mountaineering trips here is an rmi guide during the climbing season and works here the rest of the year. a 2 day mountaineering class is around $150 (130 for students) and a 3 day rainier climb is around 250 (200 for students). only problem is there is only one rainier climb a year so it is easy to miss the window of good weather (however we didnt even leave corvallis this year so we got our money back) but the non summit classes are once/term (3/year) and go rain or shine.

[MITllama02]

Besides what everyone else wrote, RMI doesn't take you to the summit of Rainier. They just take you to the edge of the summit crater. I went with them on my first climb of Rainier in 2000 and despite perfect weather (clear, sunny, nary a breeze) the guides refused to let me hike over to the true summit on the other side of the crater. The head guide claimed that a couple of clients (there were 19 total) were "not doing well" and so he didn't want to wait the 45 min he estimated it would take me round trip. I was very disappointed and went back in 2001 to reach the true summit with friends. RMI tells their clients that the crater's edge is the summit.

[Old_Man]

That's funny. I saw five or six RMI clients (out of their group of 8) on the Columbia Crest this year...and if you look through the summit register, there are a number of sign-ins by RMI clients and guides. Someone told me it was RMI's policy to go "to the very summit" if possible, depending on weather, conditions and how folks were feeling.

 

Maybe the guide who led the trip had some more info he wasn't sharing...hard to tell after the fact. Good onya for going back and making it that last 150 feet.

[estivate]

Forget about rainier if you want to learn anything. Hire a guide for 2-3 days, and have him teach you stuff. You will learn a lot more one-on-one. Read some books beforehand. American Alpine Institute guides are good. There are probably any number of other guides who would do this for you, for slightly less $.

[erik]

i would never go out with a guide unless they were actually amga certified. outside of that, everyone else is just trying to be a guide.

 

pro guide service would probably be the best.

 

[Rodchester]

i would never go out with a guide unless they were actually amga certified. outside of that, everyone else is just trying to be a guide.

 

While I agree that AMGA certification lets one know that the guide is knowledgable, I would not limit myself to what is still only an up and coming certification. I+No doubt it is the way of the future, but it doesn't gaurantee you anything, except that it will greatly limit you pool to choose from.

 

There are many great guides that are not certified, and will never go that route.

 

2 cents

[Stefan]

Heres another option KIWI.

 

Offer to pay somebody on this climbing board for $150/day to teach you something for 4-5 days. It appears that a lot of these guys on this website are either unemployed or have a lot of time on their hands and wouldn't mind the extra dough. Plus you get 100% personal attention.

 

Downside is that you might get a jerkwad who knows crap and all he wants is your money.

[Kiwi]

I was hoping the people on this board would offer to help me out of the kindness of their hearts.

[snoboy]

Kiwi said:

I was hoping the people on this board would offer to help me out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

Maybe you should drop Capt Caveman a PM, I'm sure he would be stoked to take a gumby out, or trask, I hear he likes that sort of thing too.

 

[/lame humour attempt]

[chris]

In the end, it comes down to this. You will get what you pay for. You want to learn for free? Then count on it taking a lot of time (years) and a lot of mistakes. Depending on those mistakes, the learning curve can be sharp. And dangerous.

An analogy is learning to ski or snowboard. You CAN learn on your own. But with instruction you learn faster. With personal instruction you'll learn even faster.

RMI is the second oldest guide service in the country (after Exum in Jackson, Wyoming) and the largest. They were the first to offer expedition seminars, and their model was copied by many other guide services. But keep in mind - RMI operates on Mt. Rainier and Denali. That's it. But their guides have also climbed in every range in the world, for work and for fun. So for glacier travel and high altitude, you can't go wrong with RMI.

Another Guide service I'd like to provide free advertising for: Northwest Mountain School. Located in Leavenworth, NMS offers group rock and alpine courses for teenagers. But over half of their business is providing private or custom adult trips. The owner is AMGA Rock Certified, one of the Program Directors is AMGA Rock and Alpine Certified, and several other guides are working towards certification as well. You can find them on the web at www.mountainschool.com.

Cheers!

[Fence_Sitter]

In the end, it comes down to this. You will get what you pay for. You want to learn for free? Then count on it taking a lot of time (years) and a lot of mistakes. Depending on those mistakes, the learning curve can be sharp. And dangerous.

An analogy is learning to ski or snowboard. You CAN learn on your own. But with instruction you learn faster. With personal instruction you'll learn even faster.

 

completely disagree.... i filmed guide groups and you are just cattle. you dont really learn anything pertinent to progressing toward your own self guided trip and that is the opint isn't it? buy a couple sixers and ask a couple friends to take you up and you will be styling and enjoy it way more...

[Dan_Larson]

They will get you to the summit ( weather permitting) but you will do minimal thinking for yourself, lotta money

[cascadiapartner]

The problem with RMI is that they effectively have a monopoly, which means that they don't have to be customer service oriented and they can charge excessive rates. If you want to increase the quality of the Rainier experience they should allow other qualified, established guide services access to the mountain. RMI would be forced to offer more competitive pricing and improve their services. Additionally, you can't expect to learn anything on a summit bid with RMI with a 8 to 1 ratio. Plus the objective of a Rainier climb is not instruction but to summit. The goal is to summit. If you want to learn something enroll in course with a competent guide service. While there a lot of great guides out there that are not AMGA (the majority), at least with the AMGA you can have more confidence given the rigorous certification process required.

[Dan_Harris]

I went last week with RMI on the Climb for Clean Air. BTW raised over $4000 for the American Lung Association of WA. I found the guides to be very courteous and knowledgable. Granted most of the people on the climb were there to be led up the mountain, yet the guides were very willing to answer questions and in my mind were in a teaching mode the entire time. The guide I was roped with realized my friend and I were strong enough to take us off the boot track and head off away from the crowds. We gained the crater rim on the north rather than the usual east side. I think, like most things in life, you'll get out of an experience what you are willing to put into it. My $0.02.

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Kiwi,

 

I have participated in two RMI seminars. Once was a weekend (3-day) summit climb. The other was a 5-day "Camp Muir Seminar" with summit attempt. The first time we got to 13k before turning around due to high winds. The second time we turned around at Cathedral Gap (below 11k) due to avalanche hazard.

 

I have also done a three-day privately guided climb with a senior RMI guide, on Mount Baker.

 

Overall, I found the RMI guides (both the senior and junior guides) to be very knowledgeable, friendly, and competent.

 

You asked if RMI is "touristy". Depends on what you mean. A lot of the clients (perhaps the majority on any given trip) are from out-of-town, and do not have much (or any) experience climbing in the Cascades. So the guides do a lot fo storytelling for the benefit of the clients, who generally seem to love that stuff. The guides spend a lot of time answering very basic questions for the clients (What should I wear? How do I keep my boots from hurting?) But I think that says a lot more about the typical clients than it does about the guides. If anything, my experience is that guiding for RMI seems to require an extraordinary amount of patience on the part of the guides. The RMI climbs weren't "touristy" in the sense of being a totally artificial, manufactured experience. Certainly most clients come away feeling like it wasn't "touristy". The clients are climbing a real mountain and the guides cannot control all variables (weather, icefall, etc). *However* I found that there was a certain degree of artificiality to the experience, in part because you are typically following a foot-deep bootpack all the way to the summit; very little "improvisation" in terms of routefinding is required for the standard D.C. route during the high "season". The guides have the route "dialed in" and use ladders, fixed ropes, etc. where necessary.

 

If you wish to learn mountaineering skills, I would strongly recommend against the 3-day summit climb. The 3-day summit climb gives you a "crash course" in self-arresting and roped glacier travel, and that is about it. In contrast, the 5-day seminar (and the expedition seminar, I've heard) covers much more material, including basic crevasse rescue, basic snow/ice anchors, rappelling, cramponing techniques, serac (ice) climbing on top-rope, etc. The 5-day seminar was great because we had evening lectures in the Camp Muir hut covering all sorts of topics (avalanche awareness, glaciology, mountain weather, etc.). The days were devoted to "field work" out on the Muir Snowfield or the Cowlitz Glacier. I have also heard good things about the Expedition Seminar, which would presumably include a bunch of other skills related to snow/glacier camping.

 

RMI is somewhat expensive, given the client-to-guide ratio. If you don't have your heart set on Rainier, you might investigate some less expensive alternatives, such as Northwest Mountain Guides (www.gotrek.com), North Cascade Mountain Guides (www.ncmountainguides.com), or the American Alpine Institute (www.aai.cc). I have been a client with all three guide services, and all of them were great. If you can find a buddy, you can probably put together a privately guided trip on Mount Baker, for example, for not much more (or possibly less) than RMI charges. With private guiding, you can learn a lot faster and cover more material in a single expedition. Looking back, I learned more from the privately guided outings that I have arranged than from the non-private trips.

 

Climbing "independent" (no guide) with a more experienced friend is also a great option. In practice it is sometimes hard for beginners to find more experienced climbing partners, but if you can hook up with some experienced partners, this can be a great way to learn. The majority of the guides I have met, got their start by climbing with more experienced friends and partners, rather than by using a guide service. Obviously, this method can require more persistance and time in order to work.

 

Guided climbing, and RMI in particular, seem to get a lot of flack on CC.com. But it can be a great way to learn stuff, especially a privately guided trip. Just make sure you shop around.

 

Anyhow, good luck and I hope you have a great time on the big "R".

 

-Steve

[Kiwi]

Stephen_Ramsey said:

Climbing "independent" (no guide) with a more experienced friend is also a great option. In practice it is sometimes hard for beginners to find more experienced climbing partners, but if you can hook up with some experienced partners, this can be a great way to learn. The majority of the guides I have met, got their start by climbing with more experienced friends and partners, rather than by using a guide service. Obviously, this method can require more persistance and time in order to work

Thanks for the info.

 

This was the route I decided to go: find a climbing partner while waiting for next year to begin formal classes. That's the biggest reason I joined this website. However, it's been tough trying to find someone willing to take an absolute newb up the mountain with them.

 

RMI and other classes offered in the summer were too expensive and conflicted with my work schedule. I thought it would behoove me to show a bit of patience and wait till the next season starts to begin classes. So I plan on taking the BOEALPS beginning class. I've heard only positive things about them, and I work for Boeing.

[Rodchester]

They were the first to offer expedition seminars

 

Actually I am fairly sure that NOLS started that approach long before anyone else....correct?

 

Of course one might say that NOLS is a school, versus a guide service, but when you are talking about a guide service offering a school style class...what's the difference?

 

[AlpineK]

FAG = Fuck Another Guide

[decrepit]

Going with some club, somewhere, is probably the most important thing. None of us will take you, frankly, because we don't know you. We don't know what kind of shape you're in, we don't know how old you are, we don't know whether we can stand walking/talking with you for hours or days... When you go with a group or a club, you will meet people in person, and they will be able to answer those questions for themselves in short order. After that, if you pass the fitness/pleasantness test, you will find it much easier to find people to show you the ropes, literally.

 

University Alpine Clubs are good places to meet people. BOEALPS might be too. Good luck.

[Stephen_Ramsey]

Stephen_Ramsey said:

I have also done a three-day privately guided climb with a senior RMI guide, on Mount Baker.

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but for the sake of the USFS people who have apparently been reading (and misunderstood) this post, I would like to clarify: the guide possessed a valid permit (or concession, whatever you call it) from the USFS to guide on the north side of Baker. I can provide more information (names, dates, etc.) if contacted by private message.

 

Thanks,

Steve

Edited November 20, 2003 by Stephen_Ramsey

[catbirdseat]

Bronco, the resurrector of dead threads, may have words with you.

[miller]

check out the american alpine institute

 

www.mtnguide.com

 

an excellent company, and im almost certain that all of their courses are not full next summer.

[rozzz]

RMI is one of the best but SummitClimb is a bit cheaper compared to RMI. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by rozzz

[Nancy1987]

My name is Nima and I have had an expedition on Mount Denali in May-June 2017 by RMI company.

As a mountaineer with three successful 8000m peaks (Everest north face, Cho Oyu and Shisha Pangma), Kilimanjaro, Aconcagua and passing many training courses, here is my feedback regarding my experience with RMI in the Denali expedition.

The following feedback has been shared with Joe Horiskey and Jeff Martin and they have been informed in advance that the following feedback will be shared in public for future applicants who are interested to know about the quality of services by RMI.

I have registered with RMI to join the expedition on Denali for May-June 2017 under leadership of Mr. Tyler Jones (TJ). Here are my feedback regarding this expedition based on the different subjects:

A-     Safety: As all of us heard many times in the expedition, “safety” is number one. It has also been said by TJ as the first priority for RMI, however, practically I have not seen at all that “safety” was his first priority in the expedition based on the following incidents:

1-TJ said no Avalanche Transceiver is needed in the cache day from 14000ft to 17000 ft. As you know about the West Buttress rout, the fixed rope and the steep part above 14000ft camp is the most avalanche hazardous part of the expedition. If Avalanche Transceiver is not needed here, where we should use the Avalanche Transceiver? It just gives me the idea that “safety” is just a slogan and is not really the concern for the leader but on the other hand TJ was so strict about the equipment list on the RMI website.

2-After few days staying in the 14000ft camp due to bad weather, I suggested TJ to climb up to the beginning of the fixed ropes and come back to 14000ft to have an activity and to keep being acclimatized. He refused my suggestion, and his reason was high chance of frostbite for the team members. However, in the last push ascent from 14000ft to 17000ft, the entire team waited in the shadow on the steep part before the fixed ropes for one hour between 6 am to 7 am due to strong winds on the ridge. All of these happened just because TJ always wanted to be the first team on the path regardless of the frostbite dangers which seriously threatened the team in the shadow. I myself had to move for one hour in the super cold weather to keep myself warm which was really tough in the freezing temperature. The recorded videos and the taken pictures from the morning are available to show how cold the weather was and how wrong the decision was to depart the 14000ft camp early in the morning. The temperature was between -20 to -30 oC at that morning. All these proved to me that frostbite was just an excuse to refuse my suggestion because the chance of frostbite in that morning we were waiting in the shadow was much higher and TJ was not worried about the members safety practically.

3-When TJ pushed the team as the first team to descend from 17000ft, the weather was so stormy and windy. It was one of the most dangerous weather conditions I have ever seen in mountains, and we had to descend on a very stormy ridge from 17000ft to 14000ft. TJ knew that the weather will be much better in the afternoon based on the weather forecast but he pushed the team to descend in the stormy weather just again because he wanted to be the first team on the ridge. In those conditions, one of the member’s crampons was opened in my rope and put us in a very dangerous situation. As per forecast, the weather became very calm, and clouds gone in few hours at the same afternoon however his wrong decision caused 2 frostbites on the faces for 2 members in addition to the crampon incident.

 B-      Customer Service / Behavior

1-In my presence and without my permission, TJ opened my personal backpack and “throw” out my gears/cloths/food out of my backpack in the K2 aviation garage before the expedition started. He said he will cut the extra rope from my backpack just because he believed that the rope had extra weight. All his immature and unprofessional behaviors and words were witnessed by other members and guides.

2-TJ threatened me to send me back to Anchorage even before the expedition begins and threatened me twice more again during the trip in 14000ft camp. It is totally unprofessional approach to resolve “any” issue with a member and I have not seen this treatment from any leader before neither in Himalaya nor anywhere else.

3-When the team arrived to 17000ft camp in the last summit push, the weather was partially windy. TJ asked the team to set up tents. They were new set-up tents (the red and tunnel type tents however we have had “Mountain Hardware” orange tents before) and the members not fully familiar how to set it up. TJ became angry on us, hauled us and shouted on us just because we didn’t exactly know how to set the tents up. After being in 5-6 expeditions, I have not never ever seen such a behavior from a LEADER in the last camp before summit push when everybody is nervous about the summit. TJ was very moody and got angry and aggressive easily on the members for very minor issues and was very weak in stress and anger management.

4-Many times said “do not be stressed out” by TJ, however he himself made so much stress for members. For example, if I would be ready few minutes later than other members, he would raise it up during the day many times and mentioned my name in this regard that you were late and tried to tease me in front of other members. It has happened not only for me but also for most members. So, if needed to wake up in a cache or moving day, I wouldn’t sleep well the night before and was partially ready in the tent just no to be late and no to be criticized by TJ. All these things made the team like a group of stressful soldiers in a casern who should compete to each other not to be late. This attitude is completely against the spirit of mountaineering in which a mountaineer should be peaceful and calm in mountains.

5- “I am DICTATOR”, said by TJ when the team was waiting in the K2 aviation garage to fly to the base camp. He emphasized that he would push people to accept his words and his words do not have necessarily any logic behind. Since the members were mature, it was needed to convince members by logical reasons rather than dictatorship manner. However, he thought he is the leader of kids in a kindergarten and should dictate his words to the members.

6-Anytime any member asked TJ what the reason was that we don’t climb to the higher camps, instead of answering the question he replied that anyone who is not happy with his decision can return home. This is the most unprofessional, illogical, and immature answer to any question. He wanted to establish his dictatorship by threatening members like this type of answer. It has happened for me the third night in 14000ft camp in the dinner time in the kitchen tent. It happened many more other times such as day 9 in the 14000 ft camp. It all proved to me that TJ has no idea about crisis management and mental support of his team and simply he is not a professional leader, and he just imposed his ideas to the members by threatening them to either follow him or go back home.

 C- Food

1-How TJ endue the team food to another RMI team when our own expedition has not been finished yet? It has happened when another RMI team led by Brent was in food shortage.

2-After coming back from 17000ft camp in the cache day, the team was fed by noodle. You obviously know that the cache day to 17000ft takes few thousand calories and noodle isn’t obviously a nutritious food to recover members.

3-On June 9^th, we were fed again with a very low-quality dinner called quinoa. This is not a nutritious food to have a very active day after it. It was in such a low quality that one of the members couldn’t eat it at all.

4-For two breakfasts for 11 people included 8 members and 3 guides, two small packs of cheese (8 Oz each) were provided for each breakfast. Interestingly, TJ mentioned twice to the members to eat less and leave the rest of the cheese for the guides. Considering that the 9^th member (Todd) left us in the second day of expedition, why we were in food shortage for the rest of the team and how rude his behavior was when TJ said eat less to have more for guides? It also has happened for other foods such as guak and bacon in many times at dinner.

5-On 8^th June which was day 13 of the expedition, TJ said we are running out of food. On the official RMI site, the expedition takes 21 days. Considering that Todd left the team in the 2^nd day of expedition, how come our food was in shortage in day 13 of the expedition? Then our team should beg food from other teams when TJ went out every day for 3-4 days after breakfast to find food. Was it just happened due to food mismanagement? One of the reasons was that part of our food was given to Brent team (another RMI team) because they ran out of food. From Humanity perspective, it is nice to help others however TJ always preferred others to his team and forgot his main responsibilities. As a leader, I saw TJ in many situations that he preferred to have a good reputation in other teams/female climbers’ view rather than thinking about his team members.

6-As preferred other teams to his team, TJ gave few bottles of fuel to Brent team since they have run out of fuel too and it caused our team not to have fuel for few nights and after dinner we didn’t have hot water for four nights.

 D-     Technical Issues

1-There was zero tolerance by TJ and the two guides to modify or change the ascend or descend pace during the entire expedition. For example, in ascending from 17000ft to 14000ft in the cache day, I asked the guide in my rope to give a 5-minute break just one hour from 14000ft camp because I was so thirsty and I ran out of water and my request was rejected! The weather was cloudy but not windy at all and having break for 5 minutes couldn’t change anything, but it was strangely rejected without any reasonable reason.

2-The major reason for any mountaineer to climb mountains is pure joy and record these joyful seconds. TJ and his guides didn’t let us to take pictures when the condition was safe and stable for photography. Honestly, it has happened many times but not always. On the arrival to 17000ft in the cache day, I asked permission to take few pics from the “edge of the world” in 17000ft camp and the guide didn’t let me to do it. The weather was sunny, we have had time and we were in no rush to come back to 14000ft camp.  So why am I not allowed to take pictures? How can I record beautiful seconds when I am in the mountain when TJ and his guides didn’t let us to take pictures without any safety or technical reasons. All these non-logical behaviors make not only me but also others to think that we are in casern instead of mountain and we are soldiers who should follow our commander’s orders.

3-During the entire trip, TJ was always insisting to wear exactly as he wore. It seems he doesn’t know and doesn’t want to understand that different people have different bodies. Some people are tolerant to cold, and some are tolerant to hot weather. In TJ’s idea there is just ONE correct clothing system in mountaineering which is his system and if someone wears in a different system, he will react very offensive and push him to change his cloth. It has happened for me in camps 7000ft, 11000ft and 14000ft for 3 times.

4-TJ said many times during the expedition that we should keep our bodies chilled! How come?! All the legend mountaineers such as Reinhold Messner, Jerzy Kukuczka, Anatoli Boukreev highly recommended to keep yourself as warm as possible and try not to lose any warmth from your body. TJ not only believed in an opposite belief he also pushed others to follow this wrong methodology.

5-After few days waiting in 14000ft camp, I suggested TJ to have an activity on 7^th June and to hike up to the beginning of fixed ropes. My suggestion was rejected because of possibility of frostbite! Just 3 days after my suggestion, on 10^th June, TJ decided to hike up to the fixed ropes from 14000ft camp. First, the weather was much worse than 10^th June and second, he decided to do it just because Jake wanted to cache on 10^th June and TJ wanted to help him and his team members. When Jake’s team arrived to the beginning of the fixed ropes, TJ and Jake took all the cache from Jake’s team members and did cache above the fixed ropes. Meanwhile our team members went down to 14000 ft camp with our 2 guides. Again, TJ was just thinking about other teams and devoted his team members for other teams. Practically he was a great leader for Brent’s and Jake’s teams not for his own team.

6-In 14000ft camp, TJ planned to hike up to 17000ft camp on 13^th June and we will push for the summit on 14^th June. As planned, we hiked to 17000ft camp on 13^th June and the weather was perfect on 14^th June. However, TJ kept the team in 17000ft camp on 14^th June without any reason. At the same day, 14^th June, 26 climbers summited Denali. His only excuse was that he wanted to have ALL (weak and strong) members together on the top which was impossible because the gap between weak (sick) people ad strong people in our team was so wide and 2 sick people even could not walk properly in 17000ft camp. So, TJ wanted to spend more time in 17000ft camp to acclimatize the weak people and we missed good weather for summit. After 14^th June, TJ made numerous excuses not to push for summit just because he was sure he could not make all members on the top.

7-Eventually TJ made his final decision about 15^th June as the “up-down” day meaning that on 15^th June the team either must push for the summit or must go down to 14000ft camp. Although the weather was little windy in the morning, but the wind was fully vanished around 11 am and the weather became very calm but TJ neither pushed the team up for the summit nor moved down the team and we stayed in 17000ft for another night. The same illogical excuses were given to us on 15^th June and the team went down on 16^th June in a very stormy weather.

 E-      Other Teams / “Female” mountaineers & skiers

1- On 7^th June the team has been in the 14000ft camp for 4 days. The team was worried and nervous due to losing time. In this situation TJ has just been next to his team just twice in breakfast and dinner times and spent the rest of the day with other teams and girls who commuted to the camp. Was TJ our team leader or he was the girl’s program manager, or he is ladies mountaineer lover? Obviously, it is no one’s business what TJ wants to do in his personal life, but it obviously seemed that he completely forgot where he was and what his major responsibilities were. The other days that we stayed in 11000ft and 14000ft camps, he spent hours and hours with the girls who reached to the camps. Any girl who commuted between camp came to our kitchen and our facilities have been provided to them for water, food, etc. I understand that many of them were his friends, but a professional LEADER always first think about his team during expedition not about his friends and his fun. I have been tour leader for 8 years and met my mountaineer friends in the mountains. However, I always stick to my team and never left them alone to spend time with my friends when I was in a leader position.

F-      Dawn suite

1-TJ insisted many times that my down suit (which was used in my Everest expedition) was not appropriate for Denali and pushed me to rent down jacket and pant from AMS for $280. I have seen 3 other climbers from other teams in 17000ft camp who wore the same down suit and asked them how comfortable they are in their down suit and all of them were quite happy with it. I took few pictures from these climbers and recorded their voices to be used as evidence wherever it is needed. I had plan to use mine above 14000ft however TJ said that Denali is different from other mountains and never explained for me how come Denali is different from other mountains? He also made joke and teased me in public about my down suit. Our team members were witness of his behavior.

2-TJ pushed me to buy a hike pant which didn’t help me at all. I have had a high-quality Gore-Tex pant, but I have been pushed to buy a new pant just because TJ didn’t like it and he threatened me to leave me behind the team and I had to come back home.

All the words used in this email were thought about and all my claims are very precise, based on truth and recorded as photos, voices and iPhone movie and would be provided if needed.