Bug Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Necronomicon said: W.W.P.B.D.? (What Would Polich Bob Do?) I think that most american climbers, myself included, are pussies. THE style, the purest form of this whole adventure, is light and fast, as far as I'm concerned. If you want to shoot for less, good for you. John Bouchard, as a newbie, soloed the Black Dyke on Canon Cliff, pretty rad for the time. What are today's newbies going to do? Call me a pussy, pussy. I live to climb another day. Several freinds are not so lucky and their style was impeccable. Alex Marvin Peter Quote
DPS Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 What I'm wondering is how did Colin get so damn good? Colin was born good. Quote
RobBob Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 W.W.P.B.D.? (What Would Polich Bob Do?) I think that most american climbers, myself included, are pussies. ... ... What are today's newbies going to do? This makes me think about the numbers of young Germans who died on the Eigerwand, all because Hitler threw out the challenge for a German to be the first. Sometimes the goal of besting past achievements in-and-of-itself just doesn't make sense. Quote
Bug Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 There was a Korean climber who threw himself at the Cassin two years in a row and got helicoptered off from the same exact spot (17K) two years in a row. There was a Japanese climber with no fingers on his right hand and two on his left due to a little frostbite on a K2 speed ascent. Is it good style to climb after that in any way but solo? Who would tie your boots? If you don't thank the rescue crew the first year they save yur ass, is it a sign of weakness to thank them the next time they save yur ass? Quote
Necronomicon Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 RobBob said: W.W.P.B.D.? (What Would Polich Bob Do?) I think that most american climbers, myself included, are pussies. ... ... What are today's newbies going to do? This makes me think about the numbers of young Germans who died on the Eigerwand, all because Hitler threw out the challenge for a German to be the first. Sometimes the goal of besting past achievements in-and-of-itself just doesn't make sense. Stagnation then? Same style for every ascent? No new routes? Quote
JoshK Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I think Matt's point about light-and-fast being only one of many techniques is spot on. I do often feel that too much empahsis is put on doing everything car-to-car these days. In fact, I often take an extra day to do a climb that I know I can do shorter. I *like* spending the night in the outdoors. That being said I dont think going fast/light/solo is always nescessarily dangerous or pushing it too much. The first time I did triple couliors it involved belaying all of the crux pitches, extra gear, and a nice relaxed 2 1/2 day trip. The second time was solo with skisports, in 4 hours with an additoinal traverse of dragontail's south rib, a few extra water ice gullies and a climb of colchuck throw in for good measure. Was this because the second time I decided I needed to risk my neck? No, not at all. I had the experience of the first time, additional fitness and more daylight to play with. By no means do I consider the second climb more "manly" or some such shit than the first climb. Both times I met my goals and had a great time. I think the claims of lightweight speed ascents being the only true style is bullshit. There are many ways to fry an egg; some people like one way, some like another, and others like to mix it up. Quote
PLC Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I can't see how car-to-car could be the preferred style of ascent.... if you have a short weather window or only one day off work, then it may be necessary, but isn't the whole point of climbing to maximize the amount of time spent out-of-doors? If I have two days, I'm going to take them - who doesn't love a camp high on a ridge in summer? Quote
JoshK Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Amen, PLC. Or better yet, take both days, do two climbs *and* the camp on a high ridge. Quote
Attitude Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 JoshK said:I think the claims of lightweight speed ascents being the only true style is bullshit. There are many ways to fry an egg; some people like one way, some like another, and others like to mix it up. Ha, ha. Next you're going to tell us you wear nylon shorts over polypro and it's ok. Quote
JoshK Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Attitude said: JoshK said:I think the claims of lightweight speed ascents being the only true style is bullshit. There are many ways to fry an egg; some people like one way, some like another, and others like to mix it up. Ha, ha. Next you're going to tell us you wear nylon shorts over polypro and it's ok. No, that'll never be ok. Quote
chucK Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 PLC said: but isn't the whole point of climbing to maximize the amount of time spent out-of-doors? No. If that were true, why even bother climbing anything? Why not just hike to some lake and rot for a week? Maybe spending time outdoors is the long and short of it for you, but for many people there's more/other aspects of enjoyment in the "climbing" experience. Quote
Dru Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 The goal of climbing is to climb. some of us like climbing better without heavy pack than with heavy pack. Hence take as littl;e as possible. which means minimal or no bivy gear, which means climb fast. I definitely enjoyed hiking into prussik more with a daypack than with an overnight pack. The hike out was equally painful both times, for various reasons. Its also more fun climbing Slesse without bivy gear than with it. Quote
JoshK Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 No, Dru, *your* goal of climbing may be just to climb. Mine is most of the time, too. But that doesn't mean a goal of doing a climb while spending some extra time to take pictures from a high camp isn't just as worthwhile. If somebody enjoys themselves (for whatever reason) climbing with more safety gear and moving slower and heavier, than so be it. I don't see why people want to put rules on climbing. The whole point of it is that it isn't some bullshit officiated sport. Quote
Juan Posted April 30, 2003 Author Posted April 30, 2003 Erik: Sorry to have blown your cover, Dude. Do you have some of my gear or are you referring to my notable lack of doing anything in the mountains this winter? Listen, I soloed Granite. In winter. In high wind. So bad ass. The two things that keep getting in my way are work and family. Go figure. Have you tried the work thing? =;-) Anyway, getting back to the thread: As for one-day trips that could be two, I love doing that. Whether it's Maude or Daniel or Colchuck or Outer Space or Dreamer or whatever, it's great to move fast with a minimum of gear and to need only one day. But of course camping in some wild place such as the Pickets is equally awesome. My point in starting this thread was really to focus some attention on the reports of climbers who appeared -- by their own admissions -- to be taking too much risk. Part of the equation was the one-day nature of their efforts, but that alone was not what concerned me. It was the combination of factors, any one of which would lead to tragedy. Having just lost a dear friend and client in the same avalanche that killed Ron Gregg, and attending multiple events/services and seeing his family, wife, and kids, I am now more aware of the fragile balance between good conditions and bad, acceptable risk and too much, and life and death. It's a fine line, but I don't believe any climb is worth risking preventable damage. It's turning into an interesting thread, though we still don't know why Colin is so good. Maybe he can chime in. John Quote
slothrop Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Juan said: It's turning into an interesting thread, though we still don't know why Colin is so good. Maybe he can chime in. I think you've hinted at the answer to your own question. Maybe it's because he's out climbing instead of sprayin' on cc.com. Quote
PLC Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Dru - my bivy sack and summer bag weigh less than 3 pounds, and don't really take up hardly any room at all. If the benefit of peacefully watching the sunset from high camp and spending a night under the stars isn't worth the cost of carrying an extra 3 pounds, then your are clearly not climbing for the same reasons I climb. I climb mountains because I love being up high, in the clean, fresh air, I love the feeling of the sun on my face, I love the feeling of exhaustion after a long day, I love the physical nature of the climb, I even love the marmots and the goats. I just love being outside away from my desk. From your comments and Chuck's, it seems as if you consider the outdoors nature of climbing to be an impediment to your enjoyment and not an integral part of that enjoyment. If that is so, I pity you. How any climber could mock spending a week at a mountain lake "to rot" is beyong me.... Quote
Bug Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Rot? Sniff sniff. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Quote
fern Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 your pity is misguided. dru and I climbed prussik in a day with light packs so we could spend the other 3 days of our long weekend climbing other things. we covered more ground and enjoyed more variety of scenery that way. we enjoyed the sunset and the animals and everything but we enjoyed them on our feet rather than our asses. and considering I didn't get back to the road until 1am I also enjoyed a night under the stars with no-one around to distract me. Quote
specialed Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 PLC said: I can't see how car-to-car could be the preferred style of ascent.... if you have a short weather window or only one day off work, then it may be necessary, but isn't the whole point of climbing to maximize the amount of time spent out-of-doors? If I have two days, I'm going to take them - who doesn't love a camp high on a ridge in summer? Fern's right. The best "Style" is the best and funnest way for you and most conducive to the route. Sometimes that involves taking it easy and setting up a sweet basecamp at an alpine lake. Sometimes that involves challenging youself to see if you can do a certain route in a day car-to-car. And more to your point, Juan, about in-a-day's being more dangerous - on hard alpine routes its much safer. You wouldn't want to take three days to do Slipstream. You want to get in up and off as quick as possible. Personally I like to do most routes in a day if I think I can. Its not about spending less time in the mountains but about the challenge. Then I can spend the next day lounging around the alpine lake if I want - or I'll just pick a route with a long approach that requires the full two or three days. Quote
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 and special's half rack of PBR does not slow him down! Quote
texplorer Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Some see climbing like a backpacking trip (PLC, JoshK), except that you add pulling your body upward on steep ground into the mix. I don't think there is anything wrong with this type and style of climbing. When I think about heading to the mountains, however, I always think of the goal. Whether that is summiting a specific peak or climbing a certain line on a wall its more about the climb than lolly-gagging through the forest. I do enjoy the beauty of the outdoors too but I figure I'll have plenty of time for that when I'm Fred B's age. Whether you like it or not, climbing is somewhat related to sports and thus takes on many of the traditional competitive and self-discovery aspects of sports. Seeing how fast you can do a route by comparing your time, style, or difficulty on the route are measures by which to distinguish yourself from the masses. Afterall, would you like to all be in the same category as the Mountaineers, or the Mazamas? I know I don't and thus one way is to do harder routes, do routes faster, or do them in the ultimate style of the day(which is always being reestablished). I think many climbers I meet today use the "I like to take my time" excuse to hide the fact that they are out of shape, scared, or just plain don't want to push their bodies hard. Those 3 factors and jealousy of those who do push the limits are most of the anti-speed-car-to-car contingent. My point will prove itself most likely when a couple of you respond strongly with a predictable "that's not what climbing's about for me" lame-ass response. No, I don't always go out trying to push my limits on every climb but I am not so naive as to say I can't see the enjoyment and value of such climbing. To those of you who do like a more relaxed sort of climbing, I hope you have fun. For me though, life starts when you push the edges of your own limits and comfort zone. "A life without risk is no life at all." (not a quote by me) Quote
erik Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 back packing is what you do with your 'city' girlfriend.... Quote
Sphinx Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Climbing faster is more fun, for me at least. Yeah, I could siege the south side of Hood in a months with 24 camps on my way up, and everybody would give me shit about it, even though ostensibly "the best style is what is most fun". Too many hypocrites out there. It's easy to 'murder the impossible' these days. Going faster and lighter is better style, at least in alpinism. Otherwise, why is there so much hoopla about speedy ascents? Spray on, flamers. Quote
specialed Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 erik said: and special's half rack of PBR does not slow him down! Some people pack sleeping bag and bivy sack I pack a half rack PLC takes an extra set of cams and thinks its the shit Fuck that I got my Rasta bivy kit Quote
texplorer Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Yes, my city gf. She's going to be on YOSAR this summer backpackin it up while I'm doing the Orbit-OuterSpace-Hyperspace--car-to-car linkup. Quote
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