Drones in the Wilderness - Poll

[olyclimber]

A fun poll on this activity that seems to be becoming more popular. 

[Stefan]

I do care.  I just don't have a formenting rage.

This is kind of like "excessive speeders" I find on the highways....

Its more like:  If I am there and I here that sound....then I am pissed off.  But if I am not there, and I see the drone footage, then I would think it's kinda cool...and a little bit irked at the same time they went around the rules....

[olyclimber]

2 minutes ago, Stefan said:

I do care.  I just don't have a formenting rage.

This is kind of like "excessive speeders" I find on the highways....

Its more like:  If I am there and I here that sound....then I am pissed off.  But if I am not there, and I see the drone footage, then I would think it's kinda cool...and a little bit irked at the same time they went around the rules....

Fair point! Added a choice. @Stefan

[olyclimber]

Not everyone is concerned with following the law or if others follow the law or not.   For those that care:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/know-before-you-go/recreational-drone-tips

• UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” and, as such, they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated wilderness areas.

 

[Otto]

Oly, thanks for pointing out that motors are simply not allowed to run in Wilderness Areas. That should have been one of the choices on this silly poll. 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

drones are almost as bad as people blasting music out of their backpacks on trails.  fucking instagram cretins.  I blame Fuckerberg, FAANG, and tech douchery

[AlpineK]

Not frequently, but I have run into people on mountain bikes blasting a boom box as they ride.  I don't want to hear their music even if I like the song.

[Lostbolt]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:55 PM, olyclimber said:

Not everyone is concerned with following the law or if others follow the law or not.   For those that care:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/know-before-you-go/recreational-drone-tips

• UAS are considered to be both “motorized equipment” and “mechanical transport” and, as such, they cannot take off from, land in, or be operated from congressionally designated wilderness areas.

 

I have seen heard a lot of them in the MRNP Tatoosh range this summer. I was climbing the west ridge of Castle and got super surprised by a low flying drone when the person took it up the face not knowing whom what was over the ridge. I chucked a rock and they got the hint.

[bedellympian]

Had an encounter on Mt Hood this weekend that made me think of this thread. Feeling frustrated and curious what others think or would do.

I was heading down the S side route just below the Hogsback and I heard a drone. I saw a person standing still below me. He suddenly sprinted up hill and raised an ice axe in the air. At first I thought he was trying to wave the drone off but it became obvious he was posing for the drone. He then went back down to where he had been standing and picked up the controller and started making the drone swoop back and forth. I noticed he did not have a helmet or a few other things that would be standard fare for going higher on the mountain, he was also not Caucasian so I consciously tried to give this person the benefit of the doubt (thinking about how people of color have often stated they feel unwelcome in outdoor spaces in the US), maybe he just didn't know better. As I got closer to him on my descent I asked how he was doing. He responded with an accent but in a way that suggested he was a fluent English speaker. I said, "hey, just to let you know, the upper mountain is a wilderness area and flying drones is illegal in wilderness areas." He responded that he had not seen a sign that prohibited drone use. I said that it was a nation-wide law for all wilderness areas. He shrugged and continued flying the drone. I then mentioned that there was an injured person near the hogsback and SAR teams were heading up the mountain, which could include law enforcement and that I wouldn't want him to get a ticket. He said, "thanks for letting me know." At this point I continued down the mountain and he continued flying the drone for as long as I was in earshot. 

I feel really frustrated with this encounter. Part of me wanted to yell at the guy to land his toy and put it away. Part of me wanted to ask him to explain himself. I doubt either of those things would be productive, but wish there was something else I could do. Didn't help that on the way down I passed through the usual tourist horde at Timberline and picked up multiple empty alcohol containers that had been left since the start of the day in snow where people where posing and sledding. It's tough to have a special experience on a mountain that you have returned to many times and finish the outing watching others do things that are not just illegal but also infringe on the ideals of protected natural space that brought me there in first place.

[JasonG]

Unfortunately, for the average citizen, I think that the battle is lost for places like S. side of Hood, Paradise, Artists Point, WA Pass, etc. (I do hope LEOs continue to try and enforce the rules though).  I think you did about what you could and I don't think dialing up the temp. in those interactions will do any good long-term (in places like that).  Super disappointing and frustrating though!

In more remote/less frequented places, I have gone as far as threatening that if they don't land the drone, I will take the controller and land it for them, pronto.  This is typically effective, but not much fun for either party. 

Of course, they often aren't close enough to directly interact with.  In these instances loud booing sometimes works, but that is probably pretty annoying in its own right, for everyone.

[olyclimber]

If I was pissed off enough I would take their controller and huck it.  But just sounds like a bummer when we are just trying to find some solitude/a challenge/a good time. And I talk tough but probably I don’t want to poison my time in the hills with a shitty interaction with some asshole.  Modern life: what a joy. 

[geosean]

Same problem as every other thing in the world: too many people. Get a vasectomy (if you're a man).

[olyclimber]

1 hour ago, geosean said:

Same problem as every other thing in the world: too many people. Get a vasectomy (if you're a man).

If you’ve seen Idiocracy you would see the flaw in this plan. 

[JasonG]

4 hours ago, geosean said:

Same problem as every other thing in the world: too many people.

There are many problems in the world caused by too many people, but I don't think flying drones in the wilderness is one of them.  Mostly, I think it is a problem of people just not being considerate.  It doesn't matter if it is against the law or not.  It is just plain inconsiderate to ruin somebody else's day to please yourself and stroke your ego on social media. It is baffling to see people continue with inconsiderate behavior after they have been made aware that what they are doing is impacting the experience of others in the backcountry.

I really lament this trend in the past 10 years ago.  It seems to be a generational thing, as much as I hate to sound like a cranky old guy.  I have yet to see somebody older than me 1. flying a drone in the wilderness. 2. blasting a bluetooth speaker on the trail 3. setting up their tent right next to mine.

Is being considerate just a lost art?

Or I am really just that old and cranky?  Maybe I should start a poll.

[genepires]

6 hours ago, JasonG said:

There are many problems in the world caused by too many people, but I don't think flying drones in the wilderness is one of them.  Mostly, I think it is a problem of people just not being considerate.  It doesn't matter if it is against the law or not.  It is just plain inconsiderate to ruin somebody else's day to please yourself and stroke your ego on social media. It is baffling to see people continue with inconsiderate behavior after they have been made aware that what they are doing is impacting the experience of others in the backcountry.

I really lament this trend in the past 10 years ago.  It seems to be a generational thing, as much as I hate to sound like a cranky old guy.  I have yet to see somebody older than me 1. flying a drone in the wilderness. 2. blasting a bluetooth speaker on the trail 3. setting up their tent right next to mine.

Is being considerate just a lost art?

Or I am really just that old and cranky?  Maybe I should start a poll.

you are old and cranky but the real question is why are you up at 11:30pm?  go to bed old guy. 

 

[JasonG]

Ha!  Older and still cranky today, but better rested.

[Stefan]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:44 PM, JasonG said:

2. blasting a bluetooth speaker on the trail ...is being considerate just a lost art?

Or I am really just that old and cranky?  Maybe I should start a poll.

How many of you have been to the beaches in Costa Rica?  It seems there is always a dude with a BIG boom box trying to shove his music into everyone around him.  It doesn't seem to bother the locals.  It bothers me...and I am not a local...which then tells me...Am I the cranky old guy now?

Yeah, that stupid boom box shit on the trail.  Yes.  That is inconsiderate too.  Wear fucking headphones people.  Yes, it is inconsiderate if there is a "cultural" norm.

The norm is not to do the boombox on the trail....and the norm may be okay for boom boxes on the beaches of Costa Rica.

[JasonG]

Good point about norms being local in flavor @Stefan!  I wonder sometimes if we are in the midst of a new shift in local norms for the mountains? 

Legal or not won't really matter since enforcement will never be enough to deter people if they view it as their right and perfectly "normal". 

Those under 30 please chime in so it isn't just old folks yelling about people on their lawn.

[olyclimber]

I've been looking for something to be angry about and I'm hanging my hat on this.    

 

[aikidjoe]

On 12/2/2023 at 10:44 PM, JasonG said:

Mostly, I think it is a problem of people just not being considerate. 

I wonder if social media and outdoor company marketing has simply "commodified" the outdoors. A lot of people seem to be attracted to it for superficial reasons and don't even understand what a wilderness experience is, or what the customs and etiquette are. I guess what I'm saying is they don't even know they're not being considerate; it's just how social media and marketing has projected as the "correct" way to interact with nature now.

Not sure that makes sense, as I'm still not sure how best to articulate my thought, but I do sense that social media and marketing is fundamentally changing not just how many people want to go "experience" nature but also the behaviors. It doesn't occur to them they are ruining it for others because social media and marketing has normalized the behaviors we're all lamenting. 

Just a theory. It's a troubling and sad trend

[olyclimber]

Well it's a movie.  They are the stars.  We are just extras,  NPCs.   Its an epidemic of narcissism. 

[Trevor Puppy Lover]

I dont really know why I felt compelled to create an Cascade Climber account just to comment on this thread. However, I have spoken with quite a few land managers recently. Specifically the rangers incharge of the wilderness in north bend. To say that LEO do not care is probably an understatement. The land manager told me to be as safe as possible and that if I needed a power drill to be safe in the wilderness, then to bring a power drill. He then said that enforcement is almost entire focused on keeping the camps clean and that climbers are not a concern or priority. Don't worry I am not bolting anything even near the wilderness. 

I would be quite surprised if anything is done about the drones, whether you like them or not. 

I am quite surprised by this thread, I probably spend more time in the North Bend climbing areas than anyone and I have never seen a drone, except for when we are trying to confirm if a new cliff is worth bolting. I am surprised they are prevalent in the wilderness when they don't seem pervasive in the convenient climbing areas. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Trevor Puppy Lover

[olyclimber]

My evil plan for engagement worked Puppy.  Well the thing is with drones is depending on the environment you may not even notice them. Easiest way to detect them may be to search YouTube for your favorite wilderness area. Then , I guess, “who cares”, right.  I get what you’re saying. It’s like if you get your car stolen, and you call the police and expect them to round up a posse and ride out three counties to find it. Instead they may not even send out an officer to talk to you, instead directing you to fill out an online form and that’s it.  
 

No man, this is the last straw. The only thing that separates as from the other animals.  OVER THE LINE!!!!