Rodchester

Camazonia: Sure the unions have provided and continue to provide a lot of labor, both skilled and unskilled, to the American economy, but you have made it sound as if they are the only thing. That is where we part. I have often wrestled with the Union mentality. I grew up in Ohio, a very union state. What I simply cannot stand about Unions is the self promoting self righteousness spew that I hear from MANY (not all)of thier members. They almost seem brainwashed, lockstepped, in line all the time to the point that they refuse to recognize their weak points and seem to ignore them. I am not a fan of any group like this, religon, political parties, etc. So I'll clarlify my postion that I am not anti-union, I'm just not blinded by the propganda. Hey its Friday....

freeclimb9: I also find your mistatements amusing. You quoted "webbing over a wire rope (i.e. a cable) on a piece of protection would 'cut like a hot knife through butter ... '" If this claimed quote came from my post, I am calling bull shit on you. What I wrote was: "Is it a hot knife through butter? No...that is why I even said it can be done at times (in a pinch), but it GREATLY increases the risk." What part of "No" do you not understand? If you follow the general direction of the thread, it is apparent that what most of those opposed to your position were stating was that girth hitching directly to a wire cable is not a good idea. There was nothing stated or noted about cables coated in rubber and or plastic. Even when you implied it, (never actually just coming out and saying it) the general direction of thread stayed on point...that is cable...wire cable...not plastic coated cams and rubber coated nuts. Yopu wrote: "Although no arguements of the importance of cable diameter (i.e. radius of curvature) in these claims were offered" I guess my wording was not exact and maybe my calling it the rope bearing surface is not a term of art, but your assertion is nothing short of disengenous. I wrote: "Also most of your info as cited pertains to strengths, not rope bearing surface and or cutting ability? It doesn't matter how strong a rope or a draw is, it can still be cut. The smaller the rope bearing surface the greater the "cutting" effect on the rope or draw." Yet you never respond on point? Now you claim no one bought it up? Hmmm. My statement clearly put you on notice and implied a request for a response addressing the issue. Why didn't you just come out and clearly state that as with most "rules" there are exceptions. Point out the exceptions and everyone would have said, "oh good point." But I guess you still say this young Jedi should girth hitch wire cable whether it is encased or not. I agree the personal attacks are not proper. But bull shit is bull shit.

Are they actually available yet? I checked mgear.com, not on the webpage; I checked REI, none there (nothing shocking about that); I checked Feathered Friends, none there; I checked Second Ascent, none there. Anybody know? Anybody actually seen these?

verticalturtle: "My only thought on them is that depending on how you are attaching them to a pack the stiff zetyl for the toe section may interfere with say a sleve style crampon pocket." Actually it is not a problem. The zytel stuff attaches to crampons with a pin/rivet (don't know what you would actually call it) that lets you rotate the zytel downward closer to the crampon decreasing the profile so it cab slide into such a pocket. Dru is correct, the 2Fs will let you practice being stiltwalker. Then again, if the snaow is that soft, take em off.

Grivel 2F = very good crampon. Durable, and can become a "rigid" platform for easier water ice and hard alpine ice. A pretty agressive set of front points and secondary front points. Lighter than many steel crampons, but still a heavy crampon. One bad thing is that these tend to ball up when the snow gets soft, and I mean WAY worse then the G12. I have a pair and like them. Grivel G12 = I have a pair and really like them. They fit well on a large range of boot sizes and type. Durable and with the same agressive front points as the 2F. Not light weight. At retail pricing, I recollection is that this one is cheaper than most. Doesn't ball up like the 2F. I have a pair and I like them. I believe the new-matic system is the way to go. If your intended use is basic glacier mountainering, I would look into an aluminum crampon. I have a pair of Lowe/Camps and I LOVE them. They weigh half what most steel crampons do. Charlet Moser makes nice stuff, but my first hand experience is limited. So I'll stop there. Good luck...let us know what you go with and why. Also after you have used them a while post a gear review.

I agree with Erik's assement....and AlpineK's somewhat joking view is right on too. Like OP or not the guy waded into the fire and took on his detractors effectively. He stated clear and cogent reasoning for Omega's actions. What more could we ask for? No one from TNF ever posts here (substantivley anway). Go Omega...and Allison I respectfully disagree with you. Where you stand depends on where you sit. I hear your stance and that is cool. But I'm going to continue to buy the stuff.

Camazonia wrote: "The USA was built on UNION labor and is the backbone of this country.....the USA would not be the leader of the free world had it not been for union labor." Oh spare me. Union labor is only one part of a sophistcated and diverse economy. Unions had nothing to do with westward expansion, little if anything to do with Tech advances, and are shrinking in numbers because they are so inflexible and corrupt. The corruption element is a major reason why Unions are having such problems today. I believe unions have thier place, but reason we are the leader of the free world? Get over it. Go Michael!!! I am going to run out and get some of the new biners. Anyone seen these in stores yet?

I was there as well and concur with W's assesment. It was constructive. I sensed a bit of tension between Todd B of AAI and Old Lou (but nothing big so don't blow it out of proportion) regarding the last time the bids for being "the" guide service was done. It does appear that shuttles are going to be in Rainier's future, not just for climbers either. Most seemed to agree that the users days should not be increased, at least by much, but rather that the "pie" should be divided up more equally. Mike Gauthier was there and the diologue was good. It did not turn into a bitch session. I stressed that they need to get the plan right as opposed to being on time and that guide services should be checked out every five years or so, weeding out the bad and allowing in the new.

Phatty Matty Funny guy. Matt given your profession, do you know any Omega Pacific employees?

Oh....see I learned something new today. Cool. I have the Racing and the spike is not the best. So the other spike is better? I have to check that out. Thanks for the clarification!!!

And stand under it without a helmet. Would that even make the accidents in N.A. Mountainering...or maybe the Darwin awards? Maybe both?

Looks interesting: Omega - New Biner by Prison Labor

genspires: "Anyway, the day my flash dies I will replace it with a grivel air tech and cut off the rubber grip." What I meant was that you don't have to buy the Grivel Air Tech and cut off the rubber grip, you can just buy the Air Tech Racing, since it is the Air Tech without the rubber grip. But if you want to buy the Grivel Air Tech and cut off the rubber grip, that is your choice. Aree we misunderstanding each other here? I might not have understood your post? Sometimes "text only" is easy to misread.

Freeclimb9 "I'll continue to girth hitch gear when I'm running low on carabiners high on a pitch (or linking slings together to form a longer one), and I won't be worrying about a sling getting cut or melting." But he was asking if he should do it from the get go, actually as a plan...not just when he is running low on biners high on a pitch. Also most of your info as cited pertains to strengths, not rope bearing surface and or cutting ability? It doesn't matter how strong a rope or a draw is, it can still be cut. The smaller the rope bearing surface the greater the "cutting" effect on the rope or draw. Is it a hot knife through butter? No...that is why I even said it can be done at times (in a pinch), but it GREATLY increases the risk. If that is a risk you choose to take, go ahead. But this young Jedi needs to be informed of the risk associated with this tecnique. Good luck....buy Omega Pacific Biners. Only the best prision labor. [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

I have a feeling that Whopper is looking at the JC Wire Gate v. the Neutrino? The Neutrino is a little lighter than the JC Wire Gate. 5 Grams lighter to be exact. JC WIRE GATE Weight 41 gmsGate opening 22mmRetail $6.95Load bearing surface 10mm BD Neutrino Weight 36 gm (1.27 oz) Gate opening (.37 inch) 22mm Retail $7.95Load bearing surface 9.4mm (.866 inch) As a comparision the other BD wire gate biners have a 25mm gate opening. So with the Omega JC Wire Gate for a dollar less each biner you get a little more weight and a little more rope bearing surface. Same gate. Additioanlly with the Omega JC Wire gate you get the privilige of knowing that you are helping thousands of convicts to rehabilitate themselves by learning a trade and an uncompromising work ethic. Those that would say no to prison labor are simply the unwitting tools of the little known conspiracy between the union machine and the "man" trying to keep the little guy down. Trying to prevent even an medoric rise that might threaten the union death grip on labor and the "man's" control of profits and scoiety as a whole. Odd bedfellows true. But you must believe and say....yes, yes, YES!!! to prision labor!!! Come on everybody!!! (If you are still reading this and actually think me or anyone else believes this please execise your 2nd amendment rights on yourself in your backyard - easier to clean up that way).

The BD Alpamayo standard ice axe was around for more than a few years. My recollection is that it was made from the later 1980s until the late 1990s...but don't quote me on that. I am pretty sure that the Grivel Air Tech racing does not have a rubber grip, and the Air Tech does. I looked at the new BD Raven and I must admit it looks nice with a very good balance between light and heavy duty.

"the rockies just south of Pindale (10-15mi.)" I would guess he means either the Southern Winds or the Snowy Range. Most likely the Winds from Pinedale. If you go south on the main road (it actually goes south by east it is the winds. If you go south as the crow flies it might be the Snowy range...not sure about that part.

You see Dru, I have the inside scoop

To add a bit: In an alpine setting and most any trad setting I carry two sizes of runners, standard 24in. (over the shoulder size) and a couple of 48in. (over the shoulder in-half). I find 36 in to be too long from the harness, too long over the shoulder, and too short to half over the shoulder. As far as shorter than 24in. goes I just don't see a need. Set up the 24 as a draw (2 biners and half it) I have never NEEDED one shorter. I find that "marking" gear with fingernail polish is one good way. Pick an odd-ass color and with the brush work it into the inprints on the gear (Usually the company name/logo). That way it is unlikely to rub off. Good luck...

I love the Tetons and the Winds

I heard BD is now coming out with a "key lock" style biner...anyone seen/used these?

I am a member of the AAC and I just received an ad from Kelty offering AAC members a discount on thier Cloud Packs. What is blowing my mind is that the ad says that the Cloud 4000/Vapor 45 only weighs 1 lb. Only 1lb.? The Cloud 4500/Cloud 60 is a mere 1 lb 2 oz. That REALLY seems light, like too light. I could fart and blow the pack material away. It says they have a frame sheet and all kinds of features. So how do they get down to 1 lb.? Has anyone actually used these packs?

mmmm beer.

Ivan: I would do it in some situtations, but not to purposefully conserve biners from the get-go. My gut tells me there are real concerns regarding the nut wire having a "cutting" effect on the runner. The flatter, smoother, and wider the rope bearing surface area, the better. The narrower the surface area the more likely to have that "cutting" effect. That is why you don't see super thin biners. The rope bearing surface area of a nut wire is god damn small. One less failure point in the system? Why trade a known success for a guess? Not 500 feet off the deck? Does it take 500 feet to reach terminal velocity? No. Buy some biners and be safe. Good luck... Nelly: That was some good beta. Always interesting to see these types of tests. [ 03-19-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Just an FYI: Charlie Fowler will be giving a slideshow presentation at Second Bounce in Ballard this Wednesday evening at 7:00 p.m. March 20, 2002 on climbing in Patagonia, focusing on climbs of Fitz Roy and Cerro Torre. Charlie is an accomplished climber that has been putting up first ascents and doing hard routes on snow, ice, and rock all over the world for many years (Probably more than he would like to admit). Charlie is from the first wave of climbers that really adhered to the clean climbing prinicipals. All are welcome.