Rodchester

"this would tread on their legal rights as taxpayers on public land. Can this really be true?" Norm: Yes it is. My impression/understanding is that the NPS doesn't actually "screen" with the intent to allow or refuse access...but to inform climbers and hikers of the dangers, the conditions, and of the need for equipment and training when applicable. This is America (I know it sounds cheesy - and you Canucks genrally fit in here too) and we are all free to get ourselves killed. You don't need to "go ahead" to get killed or seriously hurt. You are free to do so when ever you wish. And the public lands are open for you to do so. That is why we call them public lands. Somewhat joking, but still very serious.

Bob: Get over it. The closure is to investigate the accident. This is, and has always been, standard procedure in aircraft crashes....both civilian and military. There is no boogie man Bob...sorry to dissappoint you.

It is good to see the media print the "climbers" view on the issue. I'd say it is a well written article that hits the main points quite well. Way to be Mark G and Mike G.

Lots of maybe, maybe, maybe, going on here.... Iain wrote: "she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course." Lib Ridge as an intro...hmmmm.

Did you know they were in trouble? If you didn't know, you can't do a damn thing. You should carry no shame or guilt. Do you believe that a radio would have let you know they were in trouble? Think about it...you were on your own...what could you have done? Sure maybe something, maybe. You were on a different side of the mountain...which as we all know, makes the ability to communicate with a radio very limited, if not impossible. Odds are you never would have had any commo with them any way. My recollection is that your GPS batteries froze up...so would have the radio batteries. Your focus was right where it should have been, on keeping yourself alive. You are not a cop or EMS person patrolling the mountain. We know you would have helped had you known...you didn't know so you couldn't help. You're right to question your actions and inactions...but the answer to that question is that your actions and inactions on the mountain were right. To the three...

The barbie packs looks perfect for that Amber girl. Don't take me too seriously Amber!!!

Pooh-Pack [ 05-29-2002, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

FYI: WHATCOM COUNTY, Wash. – Two climbers are off Mount Baker after a terrifying ordeal. The men were saved by portable radios that should have been well out of range, but their pleas for help reached a vacationing ham radio operator. Ryan Dunham and Doug Miller didn't know if they would ever make it into the arms of their loved ones again. The experienced climbers were trying to reach the summit of Mount Baker in a day, but zero-visibility at the top quickly turned their journey into a battle for survival. "We were trying to find a route off the summit. Doug was pointing me in the right direction with the compass. It was a complete whiteout. I couldn't see. I walked off a cliff," said Dunham. Luckily uninjured, the men dug a snow cave and repeatedly called for help on their portable radios. Paul Schmitz and his wife were driving home from vacation. He happened to pick up the frantic calls for help on his receiver. He called for help and minutes later a rescue operation was underway. "I feel very good about it. It's an honor to be able to help out like that," says Schmitz. Poor visibility prevented a rescue helicopter from reaching the men and by late morning, the climbers were walking down the mountain, while rescuers were headed up to meet them. The rescue team finally reached them Tuesday afternoon and gave them food and water before heading back down the mountain. Paul Schmitz says he's eager to meet the two climbers. No doubt they'll want to meet him, too.

PUMICE POUNDER: You wrote: "Who are climbers? In general, they are doctors, lawyers, surgeons, software engineers, etc. You people drive to the mountains in Land Rovers, Lincoln Navigators and other assorted behemoths, tote $900 worth of ski gear up a hill, and then you have the gall to bitch and moan about paying a few bucks to go hiking or skiing." Boy is that a presumptious and incorrect statement. I happen to be a lawyer, and just because I am doesn't mean I should have to pay fees. What kind of BS logic is that? And I take it you don't climb much....I know very few lawyers and doctors that climb. My climbing buddies are carpenters, teachers, painters, mechanics, and a shit load of them make 8 to 11 dollars an hour...when they work. You sound a bit bitter. Get over it. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY IF THE FEE ISN'T PROPER. NO ONE.

"Munoz had planned to board down this route, and return to the summit the same way." But then why would he leave "all of his climbing equipment, including his helmet on the summit ...?"

He did it...that is cool. Too often people assume others can't do it, if they can't do it. One thing climbing has tought me....is that often others can do it...even when I can't.

Usually August and into September are best. Dry and clear.

Hey b-rock: Let us know how they treat you on returning the rope. I have used Maxim ropes for years and been happy with them...but I have never really had to deal with CS...so I am curious.

What is the condition on the Rock Wren - I assume it is the 35 degree version? Also long or short?

Lowell: What is your position on this?

The Mountaineers are going to mad at you guys. Tisk tisk tisk.

just getting this up there...any one?

"Buy your Forest Service Pass at REI and then return it next year." I can see it now...Um...it doesn't work any more....one day it just stopped working. I'm not satisfied with this product. Ok ok I'll accpet store credit.

Clean the material inside and out. put seam grip on both the inside and out. Put duct tape over the inside section, while the seam grip is wet. It will last a long ass time. I have a pair that is older than dirt and with a few of these repairs....they have not peeled at all.

Aether 60 Has anyone ever used thjis pack? I am looking for some feedback on this pack. Looking to use it for a general alpine pack, want it big enough to do two - three day volcano mountaineering trips, but light/small enough to use on shorter lighter trips. It seems like a good balance between pack weight, pack size, and ability to carry loads. Any info appreciated.

And the view from the lower saddle crapper is nice....

Hmmm...since the road is still snow covered I think I'll pass with this group. Maybe in a few more weeks. I am open to any suggestions for a easy climb (low fifth class with some snow or even a good fourth class scramble with some snow) that allows an easy approach when camping. You know the kind of one day climb if your in shape and have your shit together but with a group and newbies You know...two days is a nice pace and within a few hours from Seattle. Any help is appreciated.

Thinking of taking wife and a newbie friend up this thing. Never been in the area. Any general route beta would be appreciated as well as any beta on approach and access. Can you camp in or around the ghost town?

Ecuador is fun. Chimbo is one of the better BIG mountains. Coto is fun...fairly easy, and straight forward. If you have the technical ablities and are looking for a more remote peak, try El Altar. El Altar is pretty much the crown jewel of Ecuador. I liked Ecuador, but Peru is better. The peaks in Peru are just unbelevably beautiful. Mountains...as opposed to volcanos.

Trask: I tend to agree with you. Some of the Ultra-lightweight stuff you see now-a-days seems almost like one time use stuff. You fart next to it..and it tears open. Maybe if you were running a cross-country style race and did not intend on using it over a long period of time. Trial running, again might work. The trick for alpine climbers seems to be finding the balance between weight, function, and durability. A hard combo to find in one package...or pack. I also agree that the Kamsin 30 and 38 are a damn good balance of the three. Especially the 38, for alpine climbers...the 30 is a bit small.