Rodchester

Colin: As far as the bolts on Ingals go...I assume you mean the rap station bolts? I think there is a difference between rap station bolts and bolts to protect the leader. The fewer bolts the better. But I can live with bolts at rap stations.

"fresh virgin granite void of cracks" What exactly do you mean by fresh virgin granite? I assume you are referring to a crag setting? Not alpine...right? Do you mean never been attempted? Assuming it is in a crag setting that is not used for other purposes and it is truely unprotectable by trad gear, I don't have a problem with bolting in sport routes. If it is 5.12 gear and the bolter can't climb it with gear, but could with bolts? Bolting it is BS. I really don't have a problem with sport routes or climbers...so long as they climb sport routes. Leave the trad to the trad. I clip bolts some times and I have fun doing it. But I am opposed to bolting trad routes. And I am opposed to bolting in the alpine setting. (with minor exceptions for a route that might require one or two bolts at unprotectable spots - can't mname any but I guess I could see it). I also place value in th first ascentionist's style. But a sporto bolting up a clearly trad line because he was first is BS. I am rambling...time for me to listen.

I do not need to pay to summit Mt. St. helens....I am a "over-snow vehicle"!!!!!!

A few years back we were half way Helens when a sled started roaring its way up to us, clearly pointed toward the summit. We were not happy. A decent sized group of climbers/hikers started yelling and waving our poles and axes at the asshole. He stopped and we all just verbally abused him. We toled him that a Ranger was a little higher up then us and that they had just confiscated a sled. Realizing he was surrounded by unfriendlies and that he might loose his seld (bluff) he turned around and got out off there. I am normally pretty tolerant. But I simply cannot stand these sleds. And they constantly go out side thier area. It just pisses me to no end that the FS would work so hard to enforce the trial park pass, the snow park pass, and the climbing permit, but do soooo little to the sleds that sooo clearly pollute and violate the rules soooo often. [ 04-22-2002, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

freeclimb9: What are your plans in the winds? and in the tetons? I have done the Winds from Pinedale (Elkhart park)to Dubois (Trail, Ring, & Torrey Lakes) via Indian pass and the Bull Lake basin into Dinwoody via Blaurock pass then out Dinwoody Canyon (Glacier Trial). It was fun. We hit a few big peaks on the way. I have always wanted to do a true traverse starting at south pass and going to towgatee pass....staying mostly on the divide and off trails.

But I have to often heard the "we have a class" as some sort of reason why I should get off a route or leave an area. To often I hear: "Um, hi. I'm from the mountaineers, and we have a class using this area today." Um, hi. I'm not from the mountaineers. I have no class. I am not in a class. I am climbing here. Have a nice day.

hikerwa wrote "I don't think that the all of the mountaineers suck, just the ones that I too have encountered with the "i own this (rock, crevasse, mountain)" attitude." Agree agree agree.

is this similar to the arc'terex packs? This has been out for a while now. Good lightweight summit pack. Roll Top Summit

GregW: One thing to remember: as with most things there is more than one way to skin a cat, there are many views of ice tools and axes. Starting out, there are ice tools and ice axes. Difference is that ice tools are geared toward steeper terrain/ice while ice axes (or mountaineering axes) are geared toward lower angled terrain/ice. I assume from your post that you are looking at ice tools...right? Ice tools come in a dissy array of brands and styles. Every year new models flood the market. Your goals and abilities should dictate your choice...as well as price point. Some will say that they will use an ice axe on very steep ice. Sure certain they will work, but are they the best suited for your purpose? No. Remember, there is more than one ways to skin that god damn cat. Picks: should be drooped or reversed curved as they say, for the steepest ice. these picks grip steep ice quite well. A pick that is not as curved is better on moderate ice (i.e. the BD Alaskan pick rocks on 50 - 60 degree) such as most alpine ice. Leashes: you want something that securely grips your wrist, even more so on the steeper ice. However, you also want to be able to either get out of the leash, diconnect the leash, or manipulte things whith the tool dangleing from you wrist. Style and taste on this. Shaft: Generally most everyone agrees with the se of 50 cm shafts. Most agree that longer is better on alpine ice. On steep water ice a curved or bent shaft of some type is preferred by most. It does save the knuckles. However, a straight shaft is great in the alpine envirment, it lets you plunge the shaft (self-belay) in a smooth manner. Yes, a bent shaft can work (Damn cat) but the straight shaft works better. I have a pair of BD shrikes which I really like. They are reasonably priced and handle anything I am going to climb. I have 50 cm bent shafts. one detachable leash (BD Robo) and one of the BD lockdown leashes. I have really come to like the lockdown and feel for the money and the "low-tech" advantages it offers, it is my favorite. I have one adze and one hammer. The negative is that the adze and hammer are fixed on these tools. Many want to use two hammers on steep ice and one of each in the alpine enviro. Normally in the alpine enviro I carry a standard ice axe and an ice tool. I would love to have a 55 or 60 cm shrike hammer with a straight shaft for alpine. I like the BD because I can put an alskan pick on the tool for alpine then put the curved for water ice. Also all BD picks are interchangable with all BD tools. They are easy to find where ever you climb. Just some input. There are many other here with different experiences and opinions. Try to borrow tools and check them out before you purchase any. Also get tools that fit the use.

Will: I am a choss leader!! But seriously. I am not a tax attorney, but I know there are tax concerns/consequences regarding keeping a product through a tax cycle. So if REI buys 100,000 biners and only sells half by the end of the tax cycle they have to pay tax on the remaining biners. Granted if they later sell the biners they could recoup the tax, but if they sell them at a lower cost they will have to do some accounting gymnastics to recoup. Also, if you shell out the money for tax that gives you less to buy TNF parkas to sell at the higher margin. Thus the old expression, time is money. Anyway, just my .25 cents worth

Anybody have any expereince with these boots? Good water ice and Mixed boot? Scarpa Boots Any onfo appreciated. This is a REALLY good price.

My experience at REI: I worked there part-time for a couple of years. I heard/observed two things regarding the topic of this thread. I cannot say this is fact...but just what I picked up. One was that the "buyers" were rated or graded or compensated on what they sold...so if things sat on the shelve that was not good. Further if they did not sell through an item and it had to be reduced, even worse. (To a certain degree that makes pefect sense). Oddly enough if you sold through an item the buyer MUST have ben able to predict the proper amount of sale. i.e. one hundred biners purchased from BD. One hundred biners sold by end of quarter. However, what this system lacked was the ability to guage in any way manner or form, what the "buyer" could have sold. If the 100 biners sold in a week, certainly they could have sold a shitload more....demand was there but supply was not. But their system simply saw that at the end of the quater, 1000 biners had sold. Good job "buyer" = unhappy climbers. Second thing was that REI views climbing as a loss-leader. Meaning they accept the loss of the department as a lead to other departments. The climbing department has the smallest margin. Margin on a biner is about 25-30% while margin on a TNF coat is 50%. Additionally, the climbing department has the greatest "shrink." Before moving the biners behind the counter, shrink was at 50% on biners. That is a huge loss on a small margin item. REI knows it could sell more climbing hardware, but doesn't want to because it would be too great of a loss. Instead they use their capital to purchase more softgoods and sell them at a greater margin. However, they are in the position that if they abondon climbing hardware, they abandon climbers. Thus thier economic base, or core, disapears. And then they end up like Eddie Bauer. As I stated above, in an academic sense, it is founded in logic. For me and you it sucks. More and more I steer towards the little guys, Second Bounce and Nelson's shop, for my hardware. I'm not saying REI is the big evil giant boogey man of the industry. But as they alienate me more and more, I gravitate towards the shops that welcome me, that have cordage in stock, that don't view me as a loss-leader.

It looks like they are getting close to opening the pass....

Fairweather: To answre your question I think something is wrong with my computer...and i have been very busy. I just posted this info as a way of passing it on...not supporting the program myself, in fact knowing very little about it. Just some "raw" beta for the posters. I propabply should have made that clear in my original post

New Tri Nuts From the company that brought us prison labor biners with high quality at a fair price...it appears that Omega has come out with a new design for nuts. Anyone seen or used these? Any input? Thoughts? [ 04-16-2002, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

hairball: That is assuming that a sewn runner has less dynamic action than a water knot (or any other knot). Not saying you are wrong...but do you have any data to back up your position? Also, even if a knot does have more dynamic action (in theory) does that make a tied off runner stronger than a properly sewn runner? I seriously doubt it does. But am open to bete, real beta.

OK time to jump in here guys and just rip on the fact that TNF is sponsoring something...right? I mean come on, this guy must be a sell out ..right? He is doing this show at TNF...so he is a sell out. A clear media darling. A clear example of prostituting outdoor ethics for cold hard cash. This guy is clearly cultivating himself as a high powered meia giant. We must stop him. People like him must be stopped. He likely had some help and suport getting to where he is now, so he must be evil. Clearly this guy is the epitome of corprate creed and evil. I mean to think that he is using a TNF facility to spread his evil messae, like Jim Jones, have a cool-aide.

That was how it was two years ago....I assume it is still the same. I pulled a permit to camp there, but my friend got REALLY sick on the Ingraham (not altitude, a stomach thing - puking green as green can be) so we turned around. Always wanted to cam,p upt here and explore the ice caves. Good Luck

Non-plastic boots for cold climates/winter: http://www.tecnicausa.com/hiking/mtn.sht Summer mountainering/alpine, try the Ascend Bio-Flex. It is lightweight and really comfortable. Good enough for most alpine ice and snow, yet won't kill you on the approach. Soft and responsive enough for modrate alpine rock routes. Good all around boot. http://www.tecnicausa.com/hiking/backpacking.sht Jim Nelson carries the Ascend Bio Flex (at least he used to)

I have done ropes in the bathtub. It works just fine. Then I soaked it in DWR overnight and it held the DWR fairly well for a couple of seasons now.

There are SOOOOO many factors that go into it. Two weeks can be enough assuming a little luck, good conditioning, good diet, constant hydration plan, and a good climbing plan on the mountain. If the weather does not cooperate it will not be enough time. Diamox can help, but it is not a cure-all. It is more benefical to some than others. It does have some drawbacks, it is a mild-diruetic. Are you doing any smaller peaks first? This always helps. Do Nevado Pisco, easy and great views. Also, that peak is REALLY avalanche prone...be careful and be prepared to go to other peaks if it is crappy. Avalanche conditions there take a long time to settle, dry soft snow with low water saturation means that the snow takes a long time to consolidate. Lots to do in the area. Huarez is a party. good luck

m: Well like I said, why is it lighter tools (on water ice) don't penetrate as well? The weight difference is often just a few ounces...each tool still has the same strength behind it...right? The sledge hammer analogy is demonstrative, but not perfect. Same guy swinging the hammer...same obect being struck...only difference is half the weight of the sledge. The REI ice axe weighes something like 35 ozs (roughly)...about twice the Grivel Airtech Racing. Same guy swinging the ax (or arresting)...same surface being struck (or arresting)...only difference is half the weight. Not much difference in self arresting and penetration into ice when swinging, as far as this is concerned. Each calls for penetration into the surface and each has a force behind it. True the self arrest is a more constant force versus what i would call a throwing or striking force...but I see a clear correlation between the two...as far as weight effecting the performance goes. Maybe and engineer type could support of refute this? I have always read this, heard this, and seen it in practice...maybe I am wrong? Does anyone know if there are any lighter axes that are UIAA approved? or approved by some other certifying body fopr self arrest?

tomtom: Simple way of explaining it: Take an REI ice axe (or SMC) and self arrest with it. Now take a Grivel Airtech Racing and self arrest with it. You will see the difference. Another way: Take a cubic meter of concrete. I get a 15 pound sledge and you get a 7.5 pound sledge. Who is going to pound it out more effeciently? The weight of an ice axe makes a difference. The heavier the axe, the easier it bites into the snow/ice. Of course the teeth and the "clearance" (neg. v. positive) make a difference as well. This is much the same as when you use it as a tool. A lighter tool does not get as good penetration as the heavier tool. The lighter axe will take more effort to do what the heavier axe does with less effort. [ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

Regarding the TNF Westwind: "very roomy for two" I had oone of these in the late 80s and early 90s. Good tent, stood up to winds well, lightweight, but NOT, I say again NOT "very roomy for two." That sucker was pretty tight. And I have Bibler I-Tent with one door now...and I love it. Anyway Westind was a good tent, but not roomy.