Rodchester

Hikerwa: "and as far as diamox working to alleiviate the effects of AMS, I do not beleive it works as a preventative if taken before going to altitude." Actually it is generally accepted as being effective when used before going to altitude. In fact most all of the literature on it states that you should take it one to two days prior. I know many take it "as needed" as opposed to a regimented daily dosage, but it is oten taken that way. And Caveman - what about declination - isn't it something like 18 degrees here?

Allison!!! You mean you have given into the commercial pressures of the Man? The Man has fooled us into believing that we need these pieces of crap. We pay for them at the counter and then in weight in our packs. I thought you were stronger than to allow the man to keep you down. Actually, I have to admit I do not know anyone that climbs in the US or Canada (at least that I climb with) that actually uses a filter. Have you had problems with iodine Allison? With chlorine? Curious to know.

Erik says: "you see someone making a big mistake call them on it...i expect people to call me on it too....like you said you will probably never see them again....." I agree with erik, but this is always a hard call...when do you say something? What is a "big" mistake? Small mistakes can have big consequences in the mountains. Good point erik, but a hard call. I think we are saying pretty much the same thing. I have shyed away from saying something in all but the most obvious situations. Not saying I am right, I will not be seen as one of those "mounties" that preach the right way. maybe I am selfish. PS I agree 100% with DRU's postion on the increase in accidents. I seriously think there is something to it. [ 06-07-2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

"At 2 lbs, 8 oz. and coupled with a Sil Shelter weighing in at 16 oz (combined weight 3lbs 8 ozs), it's lighter than most one man tents and works well in wet weather." Basically for 1/2 pound more, and a lot more money, you can have a bomber and comparativley roomy tent. 1.89 KG (4LB 2.5OZ) = Bibler I-tent.

My wife ran some numbers a while back that showed that K2 and Everest were very close if not the same in percentage of climbers dying that had summitted. If I recall correctly, the summit success to death ratio was the same on Everest as it was on K2. Agian that is the ratio, not raw numbers. Of course these were available numbers and I cannopt say the numbers she was working with were 100% accurate.

I agree that iodine tabs will go bad/loose effectiveness. I have HEARD that Marmots are another major carrier of Giardia...anybody know anything about this? Not sure if this is true. If true that would put giardia carries high the mountains with us. I do tend to believe that claims of Giardia are over stated. I have drank from many sources with no treatment and had no problems. Luck? Maybe. I almost never use waterfilers/purifiers, unless overseas (used them in Tanzania). I sometimes think the water filter industry pumps up the whole giardia problem to sell more filters. When using iodine tablets I have never had problems.

I would go with the 9mm x 60m. I use 50 meters presntly and would like to have the 60s. The extra rope is great and not much extra weight....especially on ice. Really on any alpine route it is great to have the extra rope. And rapping?...it rocks. You can put two shorter pitches together into one. etc. etc. As far as avalability of 9 mm x 50m ropes goes...mattp seems to think you may have a problem finding them.... "However, you may have difficulty finding 50 meter ropes unless you special order them" I see them all over. I seriously doubt they will be harder to find...could be wrong but I doubt it. Good luck

Snickers...they really satisfy you.

"At the risk of sounding pretentious I'd suggest that very few people any more have any real appreciation for any thing or, any one, besides themselves." Where or how did you arrive at this conclusion? What does this have to do with death in the mountains?

iain: Thanks for that perspective. Watching from an arm chair always raises questions that usually are easily answered, from one present. But too often the arm chair gives rise to unfounded positiona dnd beliefs. That is why I didn't want to directly challenge what was done, but simply ask the questions. Thanks for your input.

"I'll gladly pay to help keep our trails in good shape in so forth" This sentiment is disturbing to me. We all already pay when we pay our taxes. Why should users pay twice? Very few other types of departments are supported by such pay to play tax schemes....why is the Forest Service doing so? Should we just call them all National parks? No because then they couldn't log them.

Are they made by Stubai?

If they are by Stubai, as Drus says, then I believe I had a pair of these for two seasons some years ago. I sold them to Wopper's wife, commonly known as KILL. She still suses them. I got them at REI on sale for like $75.00 and they worked just fine. They were to standard step in type and they fit my Koflach Artis Exp. as well as a pair of leather Tenicas with no probelms. Took them to Mexico and Ecuador to do the volcanos with no problems. I cannot remember why I got rid of them...I think I wanted one with the new-matic or hybrid style binding system to fit a wider range of boots. Anyway, they are fine for a general mountaineering crampon and can usually be found at a fair price. No complaints from here and I have heard no complaints from KILL either. two pennies

I'm with caveman on this one... Though I will say that SOMETIMES rescues amount more to a chance tyo use all of the bright shiney new equipment than anything. What I am saying is that too often they use things / equipment and materials they doidn't really need to use...often risking lives and property when not needed. Of course it is hard to guage what is nended and it is better to bring extras and not need them than not bring enough. My bigest question on the Mt. Hood thing is: Why was the helo there at all? Why weren't the snowcat and snowmobiles up there? Couldn't they do the job with out the risk of a helo on thise slopes? Obviously I don't have all of the info...and I really hate second guessing the rescuers on the ground. I'm not saying it was wrong to bring the helo there...just asking why the snowmobiles and snow cat weren't used first?

Way to be heine....

Imagine the park rangers "screening" for things beyond diminished metal capacity. Such as "diminished equipment capacity" or in the case of plenty of gear but no ability..."enhanced gumby capacity." I can see the poor rangers now...no funding, little training, and somehow trying to decide who is a gumby, who is competant, etc. God that would be a nightmare.

"this would tread on their legal rights as taxpayers on public land. Can this really be true?" Norm: Yes it is. My impression/understanding is that the NPS doesn't actually "screen" with the intent to allow or refuse access...but to inform climbers and hikers of the dangers, the conditions, and of the need for equipment and training when applicable. This is America (I know it sounds cheesy - and you Canucks genrally fit in here too) and we are all free to get ourselves killed. You don't need to "go ahead" to get killed or seriously hurt. You are free to do so when ever you wish. And the public lands are open for you to do so. That is why we call them public lands. Somewhat joking, but still very serious.

Bob: Get over it. The closure is to investigate the accident. This is, and has always been, standard procedure in aircraft crashes....both civilian and military. There is no boogie man Bob...sorry to dissappoint you.

It is good to see the media print the "climbers" view on the issue. I'd say it is a well written article that hits the main points quite well. Way to be Mark G and Mike G.

Lots of maybe, maybe, maybe, going on here.... Iain wrote: "she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course." Lib Ridge as an intro...hmmmm.

Did you know they were in trouble? If you didn't know, you can't do a damn thing. You should carry no shame or guilt. Do you believe that a radio would have let you know they were in trouble? Think about it...you were on your own...what could you have done? Sure maybe something, maybe. You were on a different side of the mountain...which as we all know, makes the ability to communicate with a radio very limited, if not impossible. Odds are you never would have had any commo with them any way. My recollection is that your GPS batteries froze up...so would have the radio batteries. Your focus was right where it should have been, on keeping yourself alive. You are not a cop or EMS person patrolling the mountain. We know you would have helped had you known...you didn't know so you couldn't help. You're right to question your actions and inactions...but the answer to that question is that your actions and inactions on the mountain were right. To the three...

The barbie packs looks perfect for that Amber girl. Don't take me too seriously Amber!!!

Pooh-Pack [ 05-29-2002, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Rodchester ]

FYI: WHATCOM COUNTY, Wash. – Two climbers are off Mount Baker after a terrifying ordeal. The men were saved by portable radios that should have been well out of range, but their pleas for help reached a vacationing ham radio operator. Ryan Dunham and Doug Miller didn't know if they would ever make it into the arms of their loved ones again. The experienced climbers were trying to reach the summit of Mount Baker in a day, but zero-visibility at the top quickly turned their journey into a battle for survival. "We were trying to find a route off the summit. Doug was pointing me in the right direction with the compass. It was a complete whiteout. I couldn't see. I walked off a cliff," said Dunham. Luckily uninjured, the men dug a snow cave and repeatedly called for help on their portable radios. Paul Schmitz and his wife were driving home from vacation. He happened to pick up the frantic calls for help on his receiver. He called for help and minutes later a rescue operation was underway. "I feel very good about it. It's an honor to be able to help out like that," says Schmitz. Poor visibility prevented a rescue helicopter from reaching the men and by late morning, the climbers were walking down the mountain, while rescuers were headed up to meet them. The rescue team finally reached them Tuesday afternoon and gave them food and water before heading back down the mountain. Paul Schmitz says he's eager to meet the two climbers. No doubt they'll want to meet him, too.

PUMICE POUNDER: You wrote: "Who are climbers? In general, they are doctors, lawyers, surgeons, software engineers, etc. You people drive to the mountains in Land Rovers, Lincoln Navigators and other assorted behemoths, tote $900 worth of ski gear up a hill, and then you have the gall to bitch and moan about paying a few bucks to go hiking or skiing." Boy is that a presumptious and incorrect statement. I happen to be a lawyer, and just because I am doesn't mean I should have to pay fees. What kind of BS logic is that? And I take it you don't climb much....I know very few lawyers and doctors that climb. My climbing buddies are carpenters, teachers, painters, mechanics, and a shit load of them make 8 to 11 dollars an hour...when they work. You sound a bit bitter. Get over it. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY IF THE FEE ISN'T PROPER. NO ONE.