max

the answer is: no

6 yeah, some geeks just have more staying power than others.

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: It does not matter how slow you go, as long as you don't stop. - Confucius Confusius must not have known about convergent integrals. Sorry, every once in a while a geek's gotta' geek-out.

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: It does not matter how slow you go, as long as you don't stop. - Confucius Confusius must not have known about convergant integrals. Sorry, every once in a while a geek's gotta' geek-out.

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: ...values which I find are worthwhile and are being lost by and to the present younger generation of climbers. I think you and I have talked about this before too. Don't blame the "present younger generation of climbers" for what you'r beefs with where climbing's going. I know plenty of geezers that clip and drill bolts, and I know plenty of punks that are very much into a high ethical standard and probably have as much respect for the spirit of climbing as you. When you make false accusations like the above, you're going to piss people off.

The "I-don't-care-what-you-think" thing just doesn't fly from either of you. If you didn't care, why are you getting worked up about this and spending time writing about it? My opinion: anyone who speaks from a position of "authority", "maturity" or "wisdom" is setting themselves up for being a hypocrite, sticking their foot in their mouth, and pissing people off. Especially if their not wise enough to understand and tolerate the arrogance and crassness of youth. But it doesn't matter if they don't care what other people think....

See, when you say it like that, you don't piss nearly as many people off! to clean climbing!

quote: Originally posted:

quote: Originally posted by Dru: ...if you never seen Project Grizzly the movie you might be right about now The best outdoor adventure movie I've ever seen. Highly recommended.

As absolutely retared the sticker pack is, if it meant the differenc between my daughter wearing or not wearing a helmet while they climbed, I'd buy two. Otherwise these things belong in Boulder only!

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Max, I hear that all climbs have updated info in the new book. You should stay home until it comes out for your own safety. Hopefully it will be obsolete by the time it is available, then you should just stay home. One word: ADVENTURE. Been there? Can't find it in a guide book. Mitch: If you go back and read my posts, you'll see I really have nothing to say about pearly gates being safe/open/easy to find/a good or bad place to climb... I was just agreeing with Crack's comment about loud mouth jackasses on this sites. I'm all about adventure climbs!

I'm looking for partner(s) for 1-3 day trips nearly anytime in the last third of may. Anything as long as it involves climbing and doesn't involve a bunch of spray. I prefer weekdays at the crags, but alpine on the weekends is great too. If it matters, I'll lead anything well in to the .10's and follow (with jumars!) anything. Alpine ice and rock routes are fine, too. Also, if you're interested in day ski trips (short or long), send me a note. grouchous_rex@yahoo.com

I've heard it's been pretty snowy on the west side this winter. How's the moisture conent on the east side? Is it going to be a dry year? Above/below average flow on the Wenatchee? Above/Below average prediction on the irrigation availability? What's the fire forcast?

A comment (not particularly applicable to the original question) on simu: I hear so much about how simu is fast and how speed equates to safety. But something I think many peole don't consider is simply getting in shape is a good way to increase speed w/o compromising safety. I'm not saying simu isn't a valid technique, but if you're really interested in speed (safety), getting in shape is the first thing to do.

When I climb offwidths, I just wear a pair of saw chaps. And nothing else.

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: Hey max you dont even know about this crag do you? It seems you think you know all about washington climbing 'cause you hear yourself yabbering so much. Thing is, you don't realize there are quite a few (relatively silent) people out there who hear you and know enough to see you're full of shit (reference CrackBolter's comment above). Of all the disgusting disease, diareah of the mouth is the worst. and yes, I do know about this crag. Tried to scope it (ok, from the car) about a month ago. What, you think I never make it back to WA?

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: Mouth just can't stop moving, hands cant stop typing. Amen.

I'll second what allison said. It's probably not worth it. A few other things to consider: -The availability and quality of outdoor related materials. Most of the fabrics you'll find only look like they should be used for outdoor gear. Often they're pretty low quality and fall apart ("I spent a week sewing this and it just fell apart!") Many of the plastic parts you might want (toggles, sliders, snaps, clip-locks, web patches, etc) will either be impossible to find or of poor quality. The binding you'll get at JoAnn's sucks. A solution to this problem is going to one of the specialty fabric stores in SEA, but then you've spent $5-8 bucks on gas and at least another $15-30 (if you work for slave wages!) in time. In the end, it's going to be more expensive. -Outdoor fabrics (even the crappy ones) are very hard on sewing machines. Unless you've got an industrial machine and KNOW HOW TO USE IT, you're probably going to cause some serious wear and tear and/or break your machine (high chance). Just sewing two layers of web and a couple layers of ripstop is pretty hard on most machines on the market these days. -Do you consider you're sanity worth anything? If you do, don't try building even a simple, nice pack from scratch. I've spent quite a bit of time screaming, groaning, and throwing shit cause I couldn't visualize the right pattern shape to make a good shoulder curve or I just spent twenty minutes pinning and sewing three panels together with the middle one backwards. -Three words: Absolutely no warranty. Jansport/SchoolGear/Walmart brand stuff is pretty crappy, but I bet you 50/50 it last longer than you're first project. And all you're left with is a pile of threads. I've said "no more" to complicated sewing projects and any more, only sew stuff sacks and harnesses for my friends (just joking).

I had lost hope and disengaged my interest in this thread by the time I noticed it's decay into the classic cc.com form. It's really hilarious!

So to keep the ball rolling here, I'd like to see a list of the top five to ten routes most deserving a chop. Be specific in what route, what bolts, and why. Once the list comes out, we'll see if anyone has a beef and can support their complaint.

Let's quit all this name calling, slandering, and subjective arguments. Let's try to get some CONSTRUCTIVE and OBJECTIVE ideas out. I'll start. 1. No future retro-bolting w/o first acsentionists nod and any route that has been retrobolted in the last five years w/o first ascentionist's ok gets yanked. Lets get a poll on this. If people are serious about "cleaning up" the icicle, they need to do so in an objective way. Otherwise, their simply a lynch mob! As for my opinoion, I'd love to see fewer bolt in the icicle and I've climbed routes before and after retro-bolting that seriuosly loose thier character w/ sissy bolts. But I sure as hell don't want some bull-headed, self rightous grumpy-pants deciding what gets pulled (no names mentioned!) Lets try to cut the crap and address this issue like adults. As stated above, this means we need to establish some objective rules for placing and pulling bolts.

quote: Originally posted: How can anyone possibly claim one person is the "best rock climber in the world," [?] Ever hear of the Well Ordered Set Theorem? First, lets address the issue of regarding someone as "bad-ass" and the whole mis-conception of "who cares what other people are doing and who's a climbing great." There are many people on this board that have expounded on the achievements of our own fred becky and all those canadian hard-types that have done awesome things. There are people on this board who have themselves been at the leading edge of cascades climbing, if not climbing in general. I'd say most people here look to these people and say, "wow! they're climbing hard shit! They're doing cool stuff." We may not go as far as "I wish I could do that/be that hard/be that effortlessly cool", but I'd bet many of us use these people as ... (oh my God!) role models! (I know it's scandalous to suggest the beer drinking, womanizing, "I-climb-hung-over-cause-I-don't-give-a-piss-what-you-think", raucous band of "locals' on this board are interested in what's going on outside of the "Mighty Cascades") Anyways, this "community" has it's leaders and high achievers, and most people are in some way influenced by them. The point is: everybody has people they look up to. And I say great! Role models are valuable in continuing development. So why Lynn hill? I think Lynn hill's best attribute is the style in which she climbs. OK, I'll admit I don't keep 24-7 watch of her accomplishments or even her style, but from the sample I have of he rstyle compared to the sample I have of the greater climbing communities style, she kicks ass! She consistently climbs hard shit, trad and sport, and from what I've heard from her, she's relatively low key about the whole thing. In addition to her "climbing philosophy", she simply moves with style. I think someone who climbs a 5.10 and makes it look fun and easy is much better of a climber than someone who grunts and flails their way up a 5.12. I've seem videos of Lynn climb 5.12's with amazingly smooth motion and obvious control. Second, Lynn hill has been pushing climbing for many years. She's got quite a list of firsts, and her progress isn't just a flash in the pan. I'll admit I can't name of the list now, but I remember seeing her name in quite a few places in the RR guide, I've heard she was a leader in the Gunks for a while, and I'm sure there are plenty of places I haven't even heard of that she's put up routes. Finally, it's undeniable she is gorgeous! She's buff and just has a natural beauty! WOW! Above all, Lynn Hill's greatest attribute is her style. I know it might be a stretch for some of the hangover hardmen out there, but I think Lynn Hill deserves high regard form the climbing community. [ 04-16-2002, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: max ]

Another thing I think is worth mentioning: Reviewing someone actions w/o judgement (it seems most critiques offered so far have been pretty non-judgemental) with the purpose of improving our own methods is much more appropriate and mature than reviewing others actions and mocking them, for the sole purpose of a good laugh and feeling important (e.g. "mountaineers suck", "I saw a bunch of gapers", "he was doggin his way up a bolted 5.8", etc.)

quote: Originally posted by AlpineK: I would say that climbing is an individual sport. We all have our own goals and thus our own role models. Therefore I find having a debate about who's bad ass to be silly; something that should be in People Mag. (or R&I) Lynn Hill is no doubt a good climber, but this debate is stupid. Definately. It's kind of like arguing about what restaurant is the best. It all depends on what kind of food you like.

Slab! Love it! I guess I just claimed to go for the face stuff, but I'll augment my vote with a "slab". And about the lack of lines: yeah, anything that doesn't have a line of bolts and requires a little testicular fortitude seems to keep the crowds and gapers to a minimum. The thing that's so great about slab is the concentration, especially runout slab. One thing I'm not so hot about slab climbs is that they often have obnoxious bolts, especially the new slabs. Too many bolts. I think slab is anything that has very few positve holds or jams for the hands. The key word here is positive. Bad hands = squeeky feet and sweaty palms! I used to hang out with a very sport-oriented climber. He called anytning less the vertical "slab"