max

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Stay away from sport climbers and especially gym climbers. They are lemmings; mindlessly throwing themselves off precipices. The word "precipices" sounds and looks like "testpieces".

quote: Originally posted by Doug: And what about Big Lou? Think his would fit on the average page? Are you saying he's a big asshole? Shame on you!

Cash out dividend by buying cliff bar, use cash for a sticky sack.

Two comments quote: The Campbell Group must be loggers because I'm pretty sure that's what is going on up there. 1. I can't absolutely positive about this, but the Campbell group is an investment/development company, not a loggin company. Subtle (but important) difference. 2. Please don't take this as a admonishment. I can't admonish because I've done it myself. When people put up gates and signs, they do so for a reason. As climbers, our goal is not important enough to justify disregarding the land owners wishes. It may seem unfair that someone can "own" land, but you "own" your house, right? Signs may also be to protect the public from hazards: speed demon logg trucks, falling trees, washed roads, etc. One may think they're smart enough to outwit a falling tree. Chances are they're smart enough, but the concequences for the land owner in the event of that unlikely event are large enough it's only fair to respect their wishes. All of this stuff applies to public land, too. If an agency has restricted access, there's a reason. Even if you disagree with the agencie's restriction, violating the restriction only makes it harder for the agencie's employees and doesn't really "stick it to the man".Like I said above, I'm not trying and trying not to lecture anyone because I'd be hipocritical if I did. I just want to give some prespective on trespassing.

quote: Originally posted by Mike Gauthier: They have the characteristics of regular tectonic earthquakes, NOT volcanic earthquakes. Can anyone give a resonable explanation of the difference between tectonic and volcanic earthquakes? Does it have to do with the depth of the origin? Just curious... and wasting time! [ 02-20-2002: Message edited by: max ]

Kevin: Check your PM's.

pope: yeah I was thinking about this last night and was trying to employ the "try to convince yourself into agreement before forming a refutation" trick and realized how appropriate this topic is. Just sunday I climbed a super fun face climb in Boulder Canyon. It was steep with positive holds in most places, a few dicy sections that required some interesting body positions. Bolted. And after having climbed the route, I was a little disappointed that it was bolted since there were plenty of #1-#4 TCU cracks. The bolts were purely for convenience. So I have to moderate what I said above. Your (plural) right; there are quite a few climbs out there that are and should not be bolted. And that's too bad. Later. http://www.climbingboulder.com/rock/db/boulder_canyon/the_boulderado/qs.html This page is full of Boulderisms. I especially like the comment from Zach! And the exposed trail they talk about... yeah, it's exposed if you're riding a unicycle backwards with your eyes closed and a watermelon on yer head! Overhung? Stoopid. I have to vent a little about Boulder! I gues sthe best thing is to laugh. [ 02-19-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: By the way..."young fart", as far as "lecturing" is concerned...you and others of all ages could learn alot from people who have been around a bit...some of my heroes and mentors are in their seventies and eighties and offer insights I would probably not gather from someone else without the life experience. It's up to you to listen, question and evaluate, and to adopt, alter or dismiss. I feel fortunate to have been able to mentor under an awesome "old dude" for the first four years of my climbing. He taught me lots of practiacal things about climbing, but even better he taught me about climbing smart and not acting like a sixteen year old. Ahhh, isn't that sweet!

Well, if you're talking about bouldering... can't help you. If you're looking for climbs... Go to the Ruply towers area. There are at least three super-classic Lemmon climbs there in the 5.8 range. R-#'s. "Chihuahua Power" is a great bolted 5.9. Slippery When Wet is a great two pitch trad 5.7 on one of the buttress' SW of Windy Point. It goes right up the end of the formation and has great exposure. High Karate (5.7?) is a classic in the same area. Hitchcock Pinnicle has a fun trad 5.7 and a good bolted 5.11. Both of these will take you to the top of a great pinnicle. There's a fun 5.11 on the east face of tri-level spire. In general. I'd head for windy point and go from there. You'll see a whole bunch of cars in the lot, but they're all tourist (who I love, eric) that will stay at the overlook.It's been a while since I've been there, and I don't know what you're looking to climb, but you can't go wrong with these! Have fun. FYI: There's a great place to camp East of town. Go to the N.E. corner of town and head up Tanque Verde or East Reddington Rd. I did a litte mapqwest work and couldn't figure out exactly which one. The right road will take you up into NF land overlooking the city to a usually quite spot. And free.

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: I would venture to say that a great many of the people entering "climbing" today are introduced to such by way of a gym or sport climbing area, and have no idea that there is anything potentially dubious about the effects of bolting, etc. Some of us began our climbing careers with the birth of what was called "clean climbing". The damage of pitons and bolts was explicitly recognized and revolutionary attempts were made to avoid this sort of "dirty" climbing. (Not to speak of hanging on pro as "free climbing" which I consider a stylistic rather than an environmental issue.) With the normalization of "sport climbing" and widespread rap-bolting, etc., the clean-climbing revolution seems to have been mostly forgotten. A few of us missionaries, still survive to spread the word, and will continue to do so. And not all of us are bolt-chopping fanatics, either. I'm hesitant to add my thoughts since wwhat's been said above is so perfectly civil and insightful. I've got intelectual secerity issues. I've selected this from D's responce because it struck a nerve with me. Now, I'm not using this as evidence to show Dwayner is (we'll fill this blank in a bit), but mearly using it as an example, or maybe simply as a lead into what I have to share. I'm a relatively young climber. I also consider myself to be at least on the "trad" side of the current issue, if not a discernable distance from the mean. But I often get responces from the older climbers that seem to sterotype me as a bolt clipping sport monkey. It seems that some people think that because I wasn't there for the clean climbing revolution I have no respect for it. Far from the truth. I'll admit to having clipped a few bolts and even shitty fixed pins and had a big smile come across my face. I've finagled with old nuts in shitty cracks and pulled shenanigans to make myself think I had some pro. So I have at least some sense of the boldness the first wave of clean climbers demonstrated. To hear some old fart (now remember, I'm not talking aboutmyou, right?) give me a lecture on how I need to stop clipping bolts and learn to respect...blah blah blah.. Can it. Go sterotype someone else. So, did you say "a great many [not all] of the people entering "climbing" today are introduced to such by way of a gym or sport climbing area?" Yes. Alright, it wasn't a blanket statement. Did you say "Some of us began our climbing careers with the birth of what was called "clean climbing". Yes. Another non-blanket statement, but one similar to those that seem to ignore the younger generation that's doing the very same thing. Finally "A few of us missionaries still survive to spread the word..." was in there too. Not too strong, but still similar to comments that hint at blind ritousness and martordom (it's especially embarassing to mispell things when addressing you, Mr. Dwayner) On a related issue, "no matter how hard you climb,if you clip bolts then you are a pussy.." is complete crap. I know of crazy, scary, insane routes in Yosemite, Cochise Stronghold, and even a few just moderately crazy routes in Leavenworth, Squamish, Jtree...(the list goes on) that are all bolt (un)protected, that were put up by sick dudes (and you can use the "dudes" if you'd like, too). THey clipped the bolts. If you're calling them pussies, I'm not sure I understand your scale! I'll sum it up by saying to those that cry about bolts and yabber about how "those young punks don't know what it was like when I was climbing with a rack of nuts and a whole lots balls..." haven't seen the same cross section of the climbing population as I. And like I said, I'm not getting on your case, just what you said made me think.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Dat rock looks like choss, must be Rado or something. Before I pulled the old "save as" trick, I was trying to brainstorm peaks in CO. Then I gave myself a good slap for not noticing the crevassed glacierS, all but eliminating CO.

Gannett Peak http://www.peakware.com/encyclopedia/peaks/photos/gannettsouth1.htm

quote: The first time it was a custom-made wooden paddle that I loved but was stupid enough to loan it out for a first descent of a waterfall. Hindsights 20/20, but your right, that was stupid!

Willstrickland: nice analysis. I would say that there are a number of dorks here that seem to express insecurities in the form of sexist (note I'm not talking about sexual) comments. Alicia: I did a trip this spring by myself, half without a car, and i did al much climbingas I cared to. If you go to red rocks, Jtree, yose, any of the destination areas, and are bold asking around for partners, you'll climbas much as you want. And being semi-solo has some major benifits. It's nice not having to make decisions as a group, you can keep a lower profile when ness., and your long-term schedule need only be one day! Have fun.

As far as dedication, amount of training, aerobic fitness, focus, strategy, size of thier filed of competitors, training regiments, .. probably many other measures, the top ten percent of the bike dudes kick ass over the top ten percent of climbers. In fact, I bet you could even throw in absolute strength and the bike guys might not beat the climbers, but theid sure make a strong showing. Now climbers, they sure can talk shit and smoke dope well! I'd still rather climb, though. Bikes are for wuss's. Good point, caveman. I'd agree that generally climbers and bikers are motivated by different goals. I think biking is more about winning and competing against others and climbing is more about doing and self-motivating. The downhiill thing last night was crazy! Those two guys that nearly spilled one right after another blew my mind! [ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: max ]

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: The way I learned it, proper technique for belaying the leader hinged upon mastering one-handed rolling. But I since the grigri I fear it is a lost art. Mitch, you're wierd. YOu should post more often!

Shoot! That was going to be my guess. You mean it isn't Whatsit Peak? dang!

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Anderson River tends to have some aggressive trees in cracks and on ledges Right! right right... I just saved that pic and noticed the cheaters way at this game.... ..../nesakice.jpg Maybe I should have guessed somewhere in northeast south alaska.

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Max suggests that jumping off the rock... I meant for the BELAYER to make a small hop, not the climber. But I don't mind if sport climbers atart jumping of tall rocks!

quote: Originally posted by max: No, I see some trees. poilitical/eco-freak comment. did I miss something dru?

quote: Originally posted by mattp: I'm a little unclear on this idea that you might want to add what sounds to me like extra slack in the system in the event of a fall (the suggestions that you catch the leader gently, or jump up to accomplish the same thing, or whatnot). I the "jumping" technique and leaving slack technique are not the same thing. While they both increase the distance fallen, only the former also increases the decellerating distance, thus decreases the maximum force (same net work over greater distance, hence lower average force) I think most people are saying "Nay" to the slack idea (at least in terms of slack to improve the fall characteristics) and there seems to be no super-majority on the dynamic belay/jump technique. My thoughts: belaying a long-ish fall: no jumping. You're already set for a ride. Short "sporty-type" falls: yeah, jumping or maybe just hopping might make it more comfy for your leader and maybe easier on your rope, but it seems like a technique you grow into, not pick up straight away. Finally, this is all a bunch of mountaineer-type talk. Lets cut this shit and start talking more about beer and wild parties.

quote: Originally posted by headmasterjon: Anderson River Group, B.C.? No, I see some trees.

Jay! I've talken several good wingers at Peshastin. I think the best advise is the "(gentle) step backwards" Even the most feature-less climbs there are still pretty steep, and just a little time away from the rock will get you to near the end of your rope. Also, having good posture will both reduce the likelyhood of falling and put you in a good position to minimize scraping and get you ready for "landing" Getting low = getting grated. As for this turn-around-and-run garbage: there might be someone out there who's had luck with this techhnique, but I can't imagine this as a good idea. First, if you're really falling because you can't hold on any longer, there's no time to collect yourself enough for this. If you do have time, you're not thinking about climbing, you're thinking about falling. Peshastin is all about focus and determination. There's no time to plan out such a manuver. In addition to this, facing down is a terrible way to begin the deceleration phase of a fall. Even with a nice skinny dynamic rope, being in that position is going to result in a violent twisting motion originating from the lower back. Not good. Further, I think all this moving around is only going to increase the chance of getting your legs tangeld up in the rope. Screw the raspberrys, a backwards face plant after even five feet's going to screw you up bad. I'm sure you've heard about the falling cat position (no, not one of THOSE positions). It just like any sport's "ready position." So as far as turning around and running, I call bullshit. Finally, I'm sure you've noticed the fine grained, loosely bonded nature of Peshastin rock. Compared to granite slabs, espescially those in S. California and Arizona, Peshastin sandstone is pretty non-abrasive. I guess that fact isn't really very comforting! Good luck in WA! dave

Dude!, Like totally Rad lamb-Man! It sounds like you've been taking some low-down jargon talk school lessions from some totally rad! Cali types! huhu, like, stay cool, man!