ScaredSilly

I finally said screw it and went back to using Joanne's book. It may be old but at least it is correct. I have not yet used Handren's book but seem to have heard it was good.

Si, mas cerveza por favor . Actually knowing most of the pleasantries will get you a long ways.

Private trips are easy as explained above. We went via the Vacas Valley in Feb with very few other people which was really nice. For the Vacas Valley the mules will travel on your schedule so all you carry is a day pack. Do not try to be cheap and carry your crap. Go light and enjoy the walk into the base camp. Get a mule for each person and take some luxury items like fresh fruit and melons. I can not remember who we used but they picked us up at the hotel in Mendoza, stopped by the permit office and drove us up to Los Penitentes/Puenta del Inca. I think we hung there for two nights just relaxing. The mules left in the morning and met us at the ranger station that is 8 miles up valley (our first night). We hiked another 8 miles the next day and the mules again met us at our camp. The next morning the mules take off early cause they go up to BC and then head home. We gave our mule handler dinner one night plus a shirt and sunglasses so he made sure we got a ride across the river rather than wadding across 10C water at 7am. On the way out we packed all of our crap up and did the walk out in a long day with nothing but a day pack. The mules came in early that morning and were out by that afternoon. It took me about 13 hours to hike out. And our stuff was waiting for us at Los Penitentes. Most take two days to hike out. If doing the Rutta Normal or False Polish I will echo the comment about take crampons but no ice axe - treking poles are your friend. And even then you will carry them much of the time.

Somewhat moist, windy, and cold ...

Leave all the stakes at home. With two people you will have two ice axes and perhaps 4 ski poles. Use them. Ah? but want about once you leave camp and leave and the tent? Pack yer tent up and dump it in hole with your other extra stuff while you are climbing. If you get back late and want to stay another night just set it up again. Other wise grab it and go. And if you do plan to stay another night no matter what use a couple of poles to hold it down, but drop the tent, and throw some snow on it to weight it down.

While I do not know a lot about the lookout, my guess is that the FS got a legal ruling from DC that they could ignore the Wilderness Act and went about the replacement. Using the helicopter was what probably tip things over the hill. However, the FS has many other structures with historical significance that they has worked on. My cousin was responsible for many of the projects for the FS during the 90s and 00s. I bet if the FS scoped, prepared an EIS, went in via ground and did the work as a repair and not a replacement there would not have been an issue.

No way, I can only handle 10 posts at a time otherwise my brain will explode. That said, take my comments with a grain of salt. There is lots of good info, I just thought it humorous when I saw the page count and thought about my first trip to Rainier - just too many choices. Now where are my wool mittens??? Oh, about Mt. Washington and testing things out, if it was a good enough for Washburn, Bates, and Houston, it should be good enough for the rest of ya

To some extent I find this, now 7 page thread rather funny when I compare it to my trip up Rainier. Hell we just showed up with a pair of wool pants and a wool shirt with polypro underwear. Yeah we had a Gore-Tex jacket and some pants to go over them along with a pile jacket. So a mix of old school and high tech for the time. But the point is quit thinking about it so much, just show up at the hill and throw yourself at it and see what happens. If you are thinking about your gear in the slightest and paying attention to conditions you more than likely will be fine. But perhaps the biggest is to try shit out and learn from it. If going up the Emmons dragging too much may be a drag but if you get up there and have a day to fart around with it then at least you are doing something.

Dump the googles and about half your clothes. As for gloves, light/mid weight windstopper, heavier weight liners, and shells. One comment on the ski poles - take one on your summit day. Ice axe on the up hill side and pole on the down hill to push yourself up - can be very efficient.

I recently happened to come across a copy of Jeff's book for fair price so grabbed it with the intent of passing it on to one of my climbing partners but they decided they did not want it. Given that the book is hard to find at a fair price I thought would put it up for sale here. $22 shipped CONUS.

A small observation BITD Elliot Glacier Headwall was an often talked about climb. The same for doing Sandy Glacier Headwall. Though today Sandy Glacier Headwall gets ascended here and there I think more folks focus on the north face gullies and the Reid Glacier. Why? perhaps access for the quality of climb. Especially on the north side.

It is not about the screw being stronger it is about getting it into decent ice. One can not always count on decent glacier ice. As such, having more length allows one to get the screw down into deeper and hopefully better ice without having to dig a pit for it. Similarly when building a V-thread.

Yes, I bring a 22cm long screw. I can use it in a crevasse or on a glacier as part of rescue. Also use it to hang a stove or my pack.

KInda like my first route in the Tetons - we did the North Face of the Grand. Why? Cause it was there and was one the baddest routes on the hill. Either that they got off route and wandered up it - which has happened to climbers on other well known routes.

Yeah, great outcome and story. I liked this statement: “In our review of this whole incident,” says Kelly Bush, “among the points recorded was that when deploying an emergency rations pack to a stranded person, we should consider inclusion of a fully charged iPod and a good book!”

Kinda of like these guys who skied Sunshine and went to the left of Horseshoe Rock but called it EGH: http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/884832/Re_Elliot_Glacier_Headwall In above thread there are some very good pictures posted by sweatinoutliquor showing the areas on the hill.

Do not be afraid to check some of the hostels (gites) as many have rooms for couples. La Tapia in Chamonix has such rooms. The same for the hostel in Zermatt. The Hornli Ridge is comparable to the Upper Exum in terms of difficulty except that the route is much longer and will have snow / ice on various sections. The rock when wet is slicker than snot. Check out the grave yard to understand what I mean.

Yes, and it is also in Nick Dodge's book. FA McJury & Leuthold 1935

Elliot Head Wall is the last 1000' wall of rock/snow directly below the horizontal summit ridge. It is to the right of the North Face Cleaver and left of Horseshoe Rock. If one did not climb steep rock/snow to gain the horizontal portion of the summit ridge one did not climb the headwall. Note some parties climbing Sunshine, will climb to the left of Horseshoe rock but to the right of the headwall and gain Cathedral Ridge. They are still doing Sunshine as they are climbing up the ridge. If one did the Headwall they would be traversing and not climbing up the summit ridge Look at Jeff's book.

Get a belay jacket of some sort. I have one from Wild Country but there is also the Patagonia Puff Ball. One thing that really helps me to regulate my temp is going sans hat under my helmet. If I am cold I just pull the hood up on my jacket.

I would suggest that for the first time you look at early June. Longer days, warmer temps, more stable weather. I would also suggest planning a mid week venture up the hill - fewer people.

I would not say that staying in trees will assure one of being safe. Sure it better than being on an open slope. And trees do act as anchors to help snow from moving. But once the snow is moving they force the snow around them - like a rock in a stream. However, much depends on the density of the trees as well as the sliding surface. Ridge tops where the slide looks to have started are typically not that dense. I have been in what most would consider reasonably dense trees and had wet slides plow through. It was fricking scary as we could hear trees being knocked over. Also remember that the slide could have propagated into the trees which could have done two things. One undermine the area where skiers were holed up thus forcing them from out from the protection of the trees. (i.e. the ground went out from under them). Second the moving snow could have engulfed them thus again forcing them from out from the protection of the trees. While ones body may be protected by a tree, their skis are certainly not unless they are behind a huge tree. Also remember, when one tucks behind a tree they are typically not right next to the trunk - either because of branches, tree well, or where they stopped. Here is a good example of similar slide in Oootah in January that is very similar in multiple ways including a death. http://utahavalanchecenter.org/accident_west_couloir_1282012

Lots of good comments here about knowledge, equipment, good dynamics, skills, etc. Folks might be interested in reading Bruce Tremper's book "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain." He covers all of these topics. When people ask about my climbing, skiing, canyoneering, adventures I often say that while my adventures have become harder / more difficult they have become safer. The biggest reason willingness to walk away and come back another day. A quote from a good friend - "We all do dumb things, most of the time we get away with it. But when we do not, the consequences are often deadly."

Dan, sorry to hear about your friends. When you say experienced would you mind elaborating. Experienced skiers or experienced in backcountry travel?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/19/us/washington-avalanche-deaths/index.html?hpt=hp_t2