shapp

The grades don't seem stiff to me at the lower grades, below 5.10 they seem soft to me. Probably right on above 5.10+. The trad grades seem pretty right on too. Move along, move along, these are not the steep featured limestone routes you are looking for. Try Verdon, it is only a little farther and you can buy a guide book.

No Sobo, you take the Mt. Emily Summit road exit, not the Meachum exit. See Pogues site listed above for the correct beta.

Camp any place along the summit road once you get off I-84. There are several good spots off the last spur to the climbing area. Please pack out what you bring, use established sites, only build fires in established rings and while you are at it, pick up a few more pieces of garbage that might be there already.

one should not rule that possibility out! I hear Californians are into bondage and pink lycra

Just the old Abalakov cam with a new twist (Abalakov's design which was reportedly "borrowed" by Lowe for their fundamental tricam design). Incidently, Metolious may have "borrowed" from an old Russian design when comming up with their curved hex design. I climbed with an East German on a climbing/bicycle road trip of the western U.S. in 1995 that had some Russian color coded anadized curved hexes that looked almost identical to the new metolious curved hexes. We climbed together for a couple days at Smith. Maybe some of those metolious lurkers were there that day?

Dr. Flash is right again. I have a freind the grew up in Ashland, went to college, became a professional and moved back to teach. He and his wife couldn't afford a place in Ashland so they had to move to talent and commute. You shouldn't have to commute in a town the size of Ashland. However, Dr. Flash, my understanding is that a lot of the Californians moving in are retirees not 2nd home buyers.

As a native Oregonian (and evan as one that grew up in the Eugene-Sprinfield area) I must agree with RuMR. Southwestern Oregon is way cool. I have lived all over oregon from the coast the way east side, and even John Day. You get what you make of it in any small oregon town. There are cool people and places to go climbing and do othe stuff all over Oregon. Only one disagreement, Ashland is way better than Monroe, North Bend ore Leavenworth. There is nothing artsy fartsy about any of those places. I don't believe you can catch shakespear in Monroe (maybe a disease from a convict or an ass rape by a molestor). Although they do have a better movie theater than Everett!

actually located in the blue mountain, not the wallowas. Very good mostly one pitch sport and trad routes. Best bolted route that goes nearly free with bomber natural gear is Flaked Out, very fun trad routes include Pod of God and Chopper, best mixed route is Epiphany (finger crack) then go straight up over the bolted roof instead of cutting left. Very favorite trad route is Hospital Corner. Many Many Many Many sport routes all of which are mostly high quality, and don't worry about runouts cause there are more bolts than you have draws. Can be crowded on the weekends by Whitman kids.

Amen to Skyclimb, I had several freinds that took some wingers on some of those routes to the right of the tube. Left with a little road rash and battered ego (just cause they could crank 5.11 in the gym, but couldn't get up a 5.10- outside). That road rash just made them aspire to new levels, climb a little harder, focus a little more and control the sewing machine leg. How do you learn to do this on the new routes I see in these pictures. I would by no means have considered any of the older routes as "run-out". Just "sporty" just far enough to make you think about what you were doing. Yeah the bolts were spaced a fair ways apart, but you would'nt be taking like 30 or 40 footers. Like skyclimb said, maybe a 20 footer at the most. Too dam bad. To the new Flagstone route setters, don't come to Darrington! Or let me rephrase that, come on up to Darrington, I am sure we could really show you where to drill your next hole ---- right behind your right ear! to the hilt!

No doubt there are more things to be concerned with, but this is a climbing website. I didn't say anthing about chopping bolts or other BS like that. Obviously after reading this long thread, that would accomplish nothing. Fuck off to all the on-line editors as well. Bottom line: if you have to place a bolt closer than your own body length on a slab within spitting distance on either side from more than one established climb, maybe you should rethink drilling a route. Spend your $600 on something else besides a power drill, like maybe a guide to take you out and give you some more climbing experience. The reason I posted was that I have climbed a lot at Flag, although a long time ago. I was surprised to see the photo in the gallery with the bolt line next to the tube. It practically looks like an aid climb from the photos that the other folks posted. It just makes me kind of sad to read through these serveral pages on this thread. If you can't understand this type of feeling then there really is no hope for you. I guess the old days are gone forever. Flagstone was a very special place for me too. I remember the first time we came up to the base and walked around to the right. It was like christmas. The rock seemed so bomber and unlike any other place that I had climbed in Oregon. So much different than the basalt crags or Smith. It defenitley is a nice spot in terms of variety from the standard Smith nubbin vest. It was so much fun launching up some of those routes, without a guide, nor any knowledge of the routes, taking the small run-outs on for what was then an unusual rock type that felt a little uneasy at first. For bolted climbs, the adventure was indeed very good.

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/showphoto.php?photo=9993&size=big&sort=1&cat=last7 I just came across this photo in the gallery. I haven't been to Flag for about 12 years now, but we used to go there all the time in the early 90s and savor those tasty slabs with the spicy bolt placements. So is this really how things have become. I can't believe all the bolts on this route. When did this route to the left of the hydrotube get so many bolts, and who among you thought it a good idea to ruin this part of the crag! There were already a bunch of routes left of the tube at least 3 routes where located there between the tube and the steeper wall around to the left. I can't believe someone would try this type of crap. What is the current state of affairs at flagstone now. Jason

seam grip should work great

I am not interested in getting any, I have just always thought they looked interesting, but never had actully seen any in real life or talked to anyone that had used them. Seems like TCU's rendered them obsolete, and I don't think they were in production for very long.

Any one ever have or use, or still have ABC slugs? They were a strange active slider nut/cam thing. Any comments on these from people who have ever used them?

No, he aided it, Props to the guy, he is truely amazing!, but I don't know anyone that can get their foot into a half inch crack! Similar to drytooling and torking in an ice pick instead of using marginal tip jams.

I hear that proctologists have some pretty good cramming devices for "caving", but they are kind of spendy $2500 for an exam.

climbed out of the womb in 1974 and into a tree in about 1978

Marty does not apparently know of the mixed multipitch routes that have been put up in the old time "sporty" fashion. Hope the info I emailed you (boatskiclimbsail) helps. Make sure you post a TR when you get back with some pics. Jason

I believe the D-town road is still closed by the washout at 1.5 miles. Hanman made it in their with his meat-wagon, but unless you have a big old bronco I would bring a bike.

I could care less what REI pays its executives. I am not a member and I don't shop there cause their prices are too high. There are a lot of local shops with better deals on climbing gear. I disagree with the article in only one respect, I don't think that REI is trying to be "the walmart of the outdoor industry" because there prices are too high!

While checking out some old Climbing issues yesterday there was a report from 1983 of routes put up at the warm springs crag by Watts, Lester, and also the infamous Peter Croft! up to 5.12 cracks. I wonder if this is the same place as the crags along the dechutes? I will type in the report latter and I think a previous issue has a picture of the crag on the cover.

I called the PUD about the gate two weeks ago and they said it would be closed until April. I verified this twice. What is the deal with the gate? Is is supposed to be open or can they close it at any time?

Bring a bike, the gate is closed till april

The large washout will need to be filled with heavy equipment and the culvert needs replaced too. This one will take awhile

Fern, I do not think you are correct, although I doubt it has anything to do with being a girl. If they are indpendant then these would most likely be able to fit in some very flared placements, trango makes mention of this in on their page, they say that the cams can work like off-sets. I usually am not much of a gear head, I still climb alot with rigid friends (at least the bigger sizes), but I am very interested in checking these out. Especially in the largest two sizes.