Dane

Here is a little reality check. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/11/daniel-harros-climb-stay-dry-to-stay.html Funny how I and my friends climb technical routes all winter and intentionally don't use down garments a vast majority of the time. While others use it on seemingly every trip they do. I'm lucky enough to have played at this game a while. Luckier yet getting exposed to a lot of gear over the years. I still pick what works best for me. Glad others can do the same.

Thanks Sig, glad you have enjoyed the blog. Fun facts you should know. Most everyone writing here regularly lives on the east side of the Cascades. 80+ is not uncommon here in the summer. I lived in Spokane on the east side where it was generally 90+ during June and July when I and clients would climb Rainier. Never wore or taken a down jacket on any of those climbs. Dozens of them. In fact I have suffered way more from the sun/heat on any summer Rainier climb than I ever have from the cold. The original poster asked about.."Orizaba, Kili, Aconcagua and Rainier." Up to about 18 or 20K feet I'd compare Aconcagua to Rainier or Orizaba. Above that a warm jacket is nice to have around. Which will be summit day or what time you spend at high camp. Kili is warmer yet, more like Mt Adams in late fall imo except it is higher. Which is why I originally suggested layering the more modern synthetic jackets available.

Hey happy here you have a Lyngen. Nice jacket. If you think the difference in a Lg and a XL should double the weight good on ya. I had to actually weigh smalls and meds ..a bunch of them to find out what the manufactures were using to get their specs. Doubling the weight of a jacket between what is advertised and what an XL is, also is "not fair". I might just call it deceptive advertizing actually. Not doing DC..that is cool. What route are you doing? Either way two nights out and 6 hrs from the summit to the parking lot no matter what the route is typical. The heavy weight belay jackets are over kill there unless it is mid winter. Your sewn through light weight Lyngen an exception. As I said, good luck!

Actually with just a little actual fact checking you'd find among other things that almost everyone on the plantet uses a small for their over all jacket weights. If they accurate at all even in a small size. The first part of that list was "heavy weight belay jackets. I seriously doubt there is a 7oz down jacket anywhere but in the hyper space of advertizing. I could be wrong though, but really doubt it. As the RAB Xenon jacket (60g Primaloft) in XL comes in at 11.8oz. The Rab Infinity Down jacket/sweater is 850 fill and 17.5 oz in an XL. Which isn't close to the 7.5 oz Rab says the Large size weights. Here are the factory spec and the actual weights. Eddie Bauer 43.8 oz, loft 5" (F#..factory lists 34.7 oz) Arcterxy Duelly 34.oz, loft 2.5" (F# 24oz) Narrona 31.8oz, loft 2.25" (F# 24oz) Patagonia 36.9oz, loft 1.5" (F# 26oz) Mtn Hardware 26.4 oz, loft 1.25 (F#19oz) Mammut 47.2 oz, loft 4.25" (F#40oz) Helious 35.2 oz, loft 3.25 (F#18oz) Front Point 40.8, loft 3.5" (F#30oz) MEC Tango, 31.7oz, loft 2" (F#28oz) RAB Infinity 17.5oz loft 2.5" (F#7.5oz) Some are a good ways off the advertised weights! Funny all this talk about Ranier though. On a guided climb of DC most will use a hut for the one over night. At the most even without the hut you'll spend 2 nights out. Down will work fine there with little risk to you the climbing party or the guides. As you are 4 to 6 hrs from summit to the parking lot. The Narrona Lygen is a rare exception on my list. That one I take climbing. Have fun!

Here is a list of ACTUAL weights of some of the better jackets available. Belay jackets Wild Things, Belay Jacket, 34oz pre 2010 / 963g Eddie Bauer XV 38.5oz / 1091g MEC Tango, 31.7oz / 898g Patagonia DAS (new) 36.9oz / 1046g Arcteryx Duelly 28oz / 794g Narrona Lyngen 26oz / 737g Narrona Trollveggen 37.5oz / 1063g Arcteryx Atom Hoody SV 19.0 oz / 538g Mountain Hardwear Compressor Hoody Primaloft 1 19.8oz / 561g Mammut Ambler 47.2oz / 1338g Lightly insulated jackets (belay sweaters) and shells EB Downlight Hoodie Pullover XL 15.4 oz / 455g EB Frontpoint XL 18.5oz / 547g Arcteryx Atom lt Hoody large 14.4oz / 429g Arcteryx Atom Hoody SV 19.0 oz / 562g Mountain Hardwear Compressor Hoody 19.8oz / 586g Arcteryx Gamma MX Hoody XL 24oz / 710g Arcteryx Squamish pullover XL 5.6oz -166g As an example Arcteryx Duelly 28oz / 794g Narrona Lyngen 26oz / 737g The Narrona is one of the best down jackets available these days with the addition of Primaloft. But the Dually is all Coreloft and a lot warmer for that 2oz in increased weight.

I whole heartily agree with every word Julian. But giving credit where it is also do, Patagonia was one of the first to product a jacket to match Twight's specs. as a belay jacket to go over the "action suit." Now there are lots of options and with Primeloft and Coreloft at the party better options than down a majority of the time for actual climbing. In the really cold conditions a down jacket will/might work for that. Over load what the down insulation can transport for moisture and you end up with a worthless piece of insulation.

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1053145 Giving full disclosure, the "great test" of down mentioned above was actually an over night inside a building while it snowed outside. Nothing wrong with down. But for actual climbing there are alternatives these days. There is a reason the Patagonia DAS is likley the most used belay jacket ever producted. Here are two comments on winter layering, down and synthetics included. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3533 http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/02/winter-layers.html

Saw elsewhere Theodore got the idea the preference for synthetic insulation is a NW thing (wet climate and all). It's not. The full combos being listed are way too warm for anything in the Cascades except mid winter climbs on the rare occasion. I've spent a good amount of time in Alaska in the spring, Canada and the Alps in the winter and used down and synthetics in both places. I think in general the synthetics are a better answer for anything but mild activity and/or really cold dry places. Even then I am using synthetics by choice these days everywhere.

Don't assume the preference for synthetics is a NW thing. I generally climb in the Canadian Rockies or the Alps in winter.

"down parka/jacket (with hood) now and bring all my other layers ( light base long sleeve, medium poly pro long sleeve, heavy fleece) and should be good to go." Pardon my response here..but down insulation (no matter the garment) is not a very good layering insulation. As it can not be kept dry in most sitautions and uses. It gets wet from the inside out when layered. I specifically listed Primaloft and Coreloft garments that do layer well. They will dry from body heat alone from the inside out. Adding Down to a pile garment of any sort is not an effecient layering system for a multitude of temeratures, climates and uses by comparison to what is currently available. I have and use a lot of down garments but their use is so limited in any of the current forms one could easily just discard them and generally be more comforatble in the synthetics now available. Sleeping bags are a totally different use of down.

The Arcteryx Atom SV and Patagonia Micro Puff are 100g jackets. The Atom Lt or the Patagonia Nano Puff series are 60g. I did a review on the SV last spring and the Atom LT previous to that. Nano Puff is in there as well I think.

I am not a huge fan of EB in general. But in the last 3 years I have had many if not most of the better brand name insulated climbing jackets in my hands if not on my back and made detailed comparisons between them, both down versions and the synthetics. I haven't seen the lack of quality in the XV (materials used or workmanship) that you seem to have. You can make any comparison you like...as I have with over a dozen jackets with the same intended use. The EB XV and lighter version, the Guide jacket can hold their own in any comparison of quality, workmanship and materials used. This was my first look. I have not changed my mind on the VX since that was written. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/02/belay-jacketsthe-heavy-weights.html In fact on review and more jackets used since I still am impressed enough to write this. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2011/11/eddie-bauer-peak-xv-jacket.html I suspect the problem is you don't know what the quality fabrics that are required for lwt climbing gear and are using the XV as a "walk about town" jacket. Any number of jackets of lesser quality would be more appropriate there instead of a high tech, lwt, jacket inteneded for 7K meter peaks. Your other choice, the Marmot 8000m jacket, weights 18oz heavier on an actual scale than the XV. So much for the published weights. Wild Things, Belay Jacket, 34oz pre 2010 / 963g Eddie Bauer XV 38.5oz / 1091g MEC Tango, 31.7oz / 898g Patagonia DAS (new) 36.9oz / 1046g Arcteryx Duelly 28oz / 794g Narrona Lyngen 26oz / 737g Narrona Trollveggen 37.5oz / 1063g Arcteryx Atom Hoody SV 19.0 oz / 538g Mountain Hardwear Compressor Hoody Primaloft 1 19.8oz / 561g Mammut Ambler 47.2oz / 1338g

New unobtanium Cascade picks, a early CT hammer ($75 at the time with a pick cut) and two original Nomic shafts with the most durable pommels to date. And a spare mixed pick and weights? $500 is a deal...someone needs to buy these before I do just to have a spare pair around. Are either of the other two picks cut for a CT hammer?

Daniel is on the right track. But I think even two is too limited. "Rainer this summer...Orizaba, Kili, Aconcagua" I've been working on a project/review over the last year that is a multilayers/multiuse cold weather system based on a 60g and 100g insulation set up. DAS is 170g in comparison. I have used up to 4 layers or 280g plus the resulting eight layers of nylon shell material that comes with it. 3 layers @ 60g and one at 100g. Surprized actually at just how easy/well the system works and can be so easily regulated for mid winter technical climbing at altitude, a cold bivy or a quick ascent of Rainier in summer or Fall/Spring alpine climbing. One garment at a time makes the buy in easier and the mutilayers should give you a lot of use/durability over the long haul. I have a good many choices in the closet and find myself actuallly using this system full time these days. Simply because it is the lightest, breathes the best and is the easiest to pack. Generally 2 layers of 60g. When it is really cold I'll add the 100g as a third layer. A fourth for bivies. More to come shortly on the blog.

"Anyways my guess is that the price of Eddie Bauer Peak XV is low because the fabrics are cheap and of lower quality" Your guess is incorrect. Nothing cheap or low qiua;ity about the Peak XV besides the price if you buy it on sale.

I place gear most winters that I know will get reused. That tat gets a chain link on ice because of it. True Alpine stuff is different. How often will it get followed and reused without inspection? I look for gear to make that easier FOR ME...how much I can carry, how easy is it to tie and cut. V threads with no tat are cool in the mtns if they work for you. V threads on well used water falls with chain links installed are cool as well. V threads lacing up walls of ice might be handy but they are unsightly and take some of the pleasure out of it for me.

"A far more talented pair of climbers than you" "You haven't yet mentioned my TR count..." If TRs are now how you win dick measureing contests they ought to at least be about something worth bragging on and be better than the girl's Least you be unable to look the other boys in the eye. Only an idiot trusts someone else's V threads no matter the tat size. How freakin hard is it to make your own V thread? Answer? Not very. Hell, on occasion I even allow my partners to make them. Looked at a video recently of a mostly US crew bailing on a big alpine route and every v thread (and every rock anchor) had a single biner left to run the rope through. Not like I have any intention of taking or leaving 10/20 or 30 spare biners. But they did. Steve House on K7 btw. Worth thinking about. FWIW I have and have used a Candella and the nasty little wire fooker the Canadians sell. The wire rope and fish hook sliced open a finger digging around in my pack several winters back in -20 temps. Took for ever to get the blood stopped. Haven't... won't use it again. I do carry pre cut tat though. If I use tat at all. Depends on the ice conditions. Water falls get tat. Alpine sometimes. Daniel said it all better with less words. Hard to believe we lived (and haven't written a TR on it) but my partner and I once rapped a dozen or so times of BOLLARDS (both snow and ice) getting off the North butt of Hunter. Saw Jeff Lowe mentioned them in a film as well. Sketchy imo, even compared to 1/2" tape V threads.

"found a set of fusions for cheap" you'll be sorry...

I've been using several Neoshell garments for a year now. It is not hype....it works as advertised, may be even better. Several reviews and a comparison to other technologies in the NW rain on my blog.

For those that met Jack last year in Cham I put this together today. http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2012/01/jack-roberts-climber-1953-2012.html

We'll miss ya Jack. The ride is never long enough. Best to Pam and his family.

Damn scary to watch for a number of reasons. But not a group I would want to ski with....unless you can hold your breath for 4 full minutes. Lucky indeed.

It is the logical line.

I use a Petzl Hirundos year around as well as a gear sling if required. I simply copied a few others I know who found the Hirundos before me. You can't miss the colors. And yes the Hirundos two clipper slots. As a really simple harness...not my thing though..I like the Blue Ice Choucas harness. Likely the easiest in and out with skis or over crampons.

Yep, I really like them and think they have more insulation and a better fit than the current full zip model.