Off_White

Nope, its actually a 2.35% increase over the previous biennium, but since that increase is below the rate of inflation, and certain costs such as health care and insurance have increased at a rate far above inflation, in real dollars this budget constitutes a cut. As you mentioned, it was the growth of the value of your investment that caused your taxes to increase, not a quadrupling of the rate. My taxes went up too, made me crabby, so what. Additionally, the majority of your property taxes go to local services, not the state's general fund. Typically I believe the state gets about 28% of your property taxes, and that goes to schools. Please re-read my post, I've taken no position on the initiative process, so I am at least at as consistent as you. I think Eyman's initiatives pander to that whats-in-it-for-me dark side of the worship of the individual, but that says nothing about the process itself. Good god man, don't you realize that's a whole other dreary topic to spread about for pages and days? Lets save that one for when winter is really old and bleak.

Two can play the cut 'n paste game, but the liberal will cite sources ( ) while the conservatives will appropriate and steal whatever they can: Q.* Which party put a tax on Social Security? A.* The Republican party. Ronald Reagan signed the bill for taxing Social Security benefits. "President Reagan appointed a blue-ribbon panel, known as the Greenspan Commission, to study the financing issues and make recommendations for legislative changes. The final bill, signed into law in 1983, made numerous changes in the Social Security and Medicare programs, including the taxation of Social Security benefits, the first coverage of Federal employees under Social Security and an increase in the retirement age in the next century." http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html Q.* Which party wants to privatise social security and cut your payments by as much as 46%? A.* The Republican party. Here are the hidden details of the Republican privatization plan: "Under current law, each member of the couple would receive a monthly scheduled benefit of just over $2,000 (in 2001 dollars). The shift to price indexing under Model 2 would reduce the benefit by $933 per month (for all such couples, regardless of whether they participated in the individual accounts). If the couple had decided not to participate in the individual account, the resultant benefit would be $1,099 per month. This would be 46 percent below scheduled levels – or $933 a month for each member of the couple." Q.* How much will the plan to privatise social security cost? A.* The Republican’s privatization plan cost us huge tax increases and cuts in services. "....the partial privatization proposed by the commission would cost TRILLIONS of dollars in general government revenues as the price of keeping the Social Security System intact." http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/06/kuttner-r-06-24.html One Trillion dollars is $1,000,000,000,000 - a million dollars a million times over makes one trillion dollars. The Republicans want to use our Social Security to pay off their CEO donors by putting the money in the stocks of companies like Enron and Global Crossing. And the worst part about it is they call anyone who opposes their plans "unpatriotic." We have a chance to let them know what we think of this devious plan, the voting for Congressional seats is coming up in just a few weeks. We have worked hard and paid our share of social security taxes. We paid those funds so that we would have some money for rent and food when we retire. We earned our benefits, We made our plans, and we need politicians who will keep the promise of Social Security. No changes, no reductions, no way. Don't vote for the Republican plan to cut our retirement income.

Fairweather, what about Initiative 747 that limited property tax increases to below the rate of inflation? Our regional library has had to reduce hours, and didn't King County have to close all their libraries for a month or so? Due to reduced transportation funding courtesy of Eyman, (the $30 license tab can be laid at his feet, whether it was the initiative or the scared spineless legislators acting on the "people's will") bus service to Tenino, a generally low income working class small town 15 miles south of Olympia, has been discontinued. In fact, all rural public transit in Thurston County has been cancelled. Thats just the direct personal effects on me that come off of the top of my head. Does that new tire and dented rim from an unrepaired pothole on a poorly maintained rural road count as an effect? Eyman's initiatives are facetiously marketed to the public as tax reductions, that government is full of fat that can be trimmed, and its up to legislators to make do. In fact what they are is service reductions, and the public is led to think that they can have it all and not pay for it. Property taxes also fund schools, fire departments, police departments and a host of other local services. Folks like Bill Bennett decry the degradation of American values, but I think its the ever diminishing definition of community shepherded by the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately greedheads that's changing this nation into the Fuck You Society, where if I get mine, you can suck the hind titty. Whether he's a cause or a symptom, I gotta agree: Tim Eyman Sucks.

while we're talking Big 4, anyone else ever try the Tower Route, over on the left side of the North Face? Climbs the series of towers visible in the left edge of the photo the link leads to. I made a summer attempt, and it was the first time I was thrilled to have devils club on the route, because when you didn't have that for a handhold you had to resort to ferns and that get's really scary.

Its an interesting question, and I appreciate the honest reflection and experience many have brought to this thread. Its also the sort of question that the worst aspect of PC orthodoxy tends to quash: examination of differences rather than glorifying commonality. I know that scientists who want to study biological differences in gender and how that affects ability and behavior have a hard time getting funding because the "acceptable" answer is already known: women can do anything men can do, you sexist bastard. Try getting a study on the effects of altitude and aridity on different ethnic populations funded. As to the actual question at hand, I have no insights outside the already mentioned anectodal observation: there aren't very many, are there? And Trask, having read your posts for quite awhile, I don't believe you are a racist, but recounting sterotypes just to stir the pot is better done in Spray. Surveys have shown that in terms of percentage, white youth are much more likely to do drugs than black youth. I don't recall the exact study, but as I recall this was true across the board, even examining each substance individually. Common knowledge is often wrong.

CC.com has invaded my dream life. Check it out: I’m talking to Peter Puget on the phone (!) and he’s telling me about this big article he’s working on that he wants to post to the board. He says he’s brought it to pub club, and Highlander and RuMR were a great help, marking up his draft, but that it was RobBob that showed him that the 40 pages in the middle with the parable about the old man and the cabbage didn’t add anything to the overall article. I said to him, “Peter, this means you’ve exposed your real identity” and he replies “Yeah, but I figured it was worth it.” The really freaky part: when Peter mentioned RuMR, in my mind he had Ropegun's avatar. Bear in mind, I’ve never actually met any of these people. I’ve been under a lot of stress lately, it must be beginning to take its toll. Does anyone have a good cyber therapist to recommend?

Yeah, it seemed like there was a little too much actual climbing content in there to just move the whole mess to Spray, so good job on putting that beast down in a humane manner.

Thats a 13 week extension Erik. The Dems wanted 26 weeks, but Trask talked 'em out of it.

No, silly, just buy 'em straight from Dischord for the published price. You're supposed to steal the disc from one of those whiney-shouter bands that named their album "Steal This Album"

I dunno, food poisoning might be one of the answers to that "how to lose those 5lbs" question in the other thread. We once ate some unrefrigerated pork whilst climbing down at Canon Tajo, just kept cooking it a little longer each day. Maybe it was the conditioning from all those street vendor tacos that kept us safe. As a funny bacon story, we took a pound of the stuff in to the Bugaboos, but after days after day of snow and rain we were ready to bail, so we cooked up the whole thing in that big ass hut. Talk about stinking the place up! All the other residents sorted themselves out into two camps, those who were disgusted and those who started to hover around the stove, eager to help consume the crispy pig product.

I met Earl and Katy years ago in Tucson (I think the "and" was no longer accurate), they were great folks, true devotees of adventure climbing. Earl was easy to talk to and a great storyteller. They parlayed their climbing skills into employment as itinerant high voltage transmission tower repair and construction people. What a drag.

Mt Lemmon sports the ever popular "Shriveled Penis"

to quote Zappa: "Understand, this is a dog talking"

Mattp, you've done that Lane Peak couloir in the Tatoosh, haven't you? How was it?

Marko asked: I've gotta check on my other machine, but I'm pretty sure I bookmarked a webpage with some good instructions on how to scan slides using a garden variety flat bed scanner, as opposed to a spendier slide scanner. Stay tuned for futher information...

Ooooh, ooooh, ya'll are just a buncha, buncha, MEANIE HEADS! (stamp feet, wave tiny fists). I think JayB must really be a mole from Summitpost, he started this thread and you all at least quadrupled their hits for the day. With traffic like that, can advertising revenue be far behind?

I did some variation of the SW descent in the summer and it wasn't half bad. We didn't actually traverse all the way to the West Summit, but got impatient and went down some promising looking gully, which would not be such a great choice in the winter. I remember it as mostly 3rd & 4th class, with a pitch or two of 5th class downclimbing to get to the snow, then the long traverse around shoulders & down that steeeeep timber to the road. Something about the C-J couloir gives me the heebee jeebies when comtemplating descending it, and that long amble back to Cascade Pass appears tedious. Congrats on the ascent, and in less than optimal conditions to boot. I share Pope's array of reactions. Bravo!

Well, if you're only picking through Hollywood, how about Warren Beatty for Sec. of State and Paul Newman would be Sec of Agriculture.

c'mon Trask, you know all news is biased, Fox just most closely aligns with your own take on the world.

Does anybody have any experience with BD Avalungs?

Maybe because its winter and its cold out? Proper foot attire for this time of year is a cozy pair of slippers, and I don't mean the ones made by Sportiva.

You hook that laser thingy up to a higher voltage source and you can offer that trendy scarification body mod and bloodless piercing on site at the crags, more profitable than dirtbag resole work from what I understand.

The real problem is all those damn two plankers and their moguls.