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I was thinking that in Washington there is a commission to set pay raises for state legislators, so the legislators can avoid voting for their own pay raises. A little search turned up this editorial from the right against the commission: The Suppressed News And a newspaper article suggesting that at least a few elected officials are embarrassed about getting a raise in the current situation: Some lawmakers will donate their pay raises I do think if the legislature is going to axe the pay raises for teachers they need to axe their own, as well as take some percentage of cut in their perks and support systems, just as they are asking other segments of state government to reduce. The dollar figure we're talking about is not that much in terms of the total red ink, but leaders have to be out front.

Don't mind me, I'll just go eat some thistles. Its probably snowing every where that I'm not, not that it matters. From the Snowcrummy Pass Website: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 This report was last updated at 4:15 PM General Weather occasional showers of freezing rain Surface Conditions Wet Snow, Packed Powder, Hard Pack underneath and Machine Groomed snow. Visibility (1 - 10, 10 being optimal) 5 Alpental New Snow 24hr (5am to 5am) 7.5" New Snow Since 5am 5" Base Depth Bottom 57" Base Depth Top 70" Temperature Bottom 30° Temperature Top 29° Summit West New Snow 24hr (5am to 5am) 7.5" New Snow 12hr (5pm to 5am) 2" New Snow Since 5am 5" Base Depth Bottom 48" Temperature Bottom 29°

I dunno, according to Crystal its 40 at the base and 34 on top. All their banners relate to the 2" "dump" they got last night. Funny, it looks like they've re-aimed the cam at the base so you can't see the miserable few milling about in the drizzle. 39" base? And you know areas always lie about base depth. I gotta get some windshield wipers for my goggles.

Wait a minute here, you mean there's ever finer divisions? "Brave" sport climbers don't use a cheaterstick? Only "wimpy" sport climbers use a stick to further sport climbing's premise of pure athletic difficulty with reduced risk? What do you call a sport climber who inspects, scrubs, rehearses, wires, and then bolts a route with the first bolt way off the deck? Is that a "bold" sportclimber? As anyone who's done it will tell you, hitting the deck sucks. If you're gonna get down and wallow in the frothy delights of sport climbing, why hold back?

Well Jon said he's not a very nice guy. Mess with the man and he'll take you down. I'm sure Chepe could roll on his back like a good submissive puppy and get re-incarnated.

My buddy (and climbing partner for 25 years) almost failed a belay test because he'd never used a gri-gri. Hmmm, me either for that matter. Specialed, if you're in San Diego why are you in the gym? Head to Santee or Woodson for the real deal. I could never understand why San Diego has a multitude of gyms with so much real rock and mild mediterranean climate...

Won't that come as a shock to Fence Sitter when he gets back from his European junket!

Is that what Ray does to you? Poor pooch, he must be too lazy to wash the feces from your fur. Where's the Humane Society when you need it?

Excellent work on the stairway Mr. Strickland! I didn't make it past camp II on my expedition up the wheelchair ramp at the preschool. I swear that thing was steeper than the 1 inch per foot mandated by the ADA. Impotence ain't nothing youngling, it's the incontinence thats the unbearable insult for a doddering old wreck such as myself. If I've offended Sisu, I fear this may be the last communication from me. If you see a little grease spot on the sole of his shoe, I'd appreciate it if you'd just smile and wave. At least I won't need Depends anymore.

CPB = Agent Orange = Robert Rogoz you whiffle dick. Being aged and infirm, I prefer to restrict my outings to relentless grade I class 3 testpieces, so don't feel compelled to justify your existence to me you poncey pilgarlic cheeseeater. If you wanna be a tradlodyte you're gonna have to learn to roar instead of squeak, Headmaster Sisu could give you some pointers.

Layton Kor's conversion to Seventh Day Adventism may make him a candidate. Wasn't Bill "Dolt" Feuerer diagnosed with some disorder? Might have been depression, which wouldn't exactly constitute crazy.

Damn Caveman, you broke the run of post coital pure spray with something verging on beta. Nice pic.

Admittedly, its been more than 25 years since I read the books, but if you're talking about Shelob, doesn't she show up in the 3rd book? I think my temporal distance from reading the book in question preserved my enjoyment of the film. Most folks I know who recently re-read the Two Towers in anticipation of the movie were disappointed. Making a novel into a movie seems like a damned hard prospect to me, there just isn't enough time in a 2 (or even 3) hour movie to fit in the wealth of detail, plot and imagery you'll find in a good book, much less doing that with a book so adored by millions. Anyway, I had a good time, but maybe I'm just easily amused.

You! The smirking Canadian in the corner. Move along now, enough of your goldbricking, or I'll have to take my quirt to your pasty farinaceous backside.

Small niggling detail: The thread was started by Bronco, about a website run by MikeAdam. The thread is only Cavey's by virtue of his defense of his friend's website.

Caveman: Neither Mattp nor I are moderators of the usually quiet Personal Web Page forum. If you wanted some action taken, you should use the "notify moderator" function, which will send an email to the moderator of that forum. Particularly in a slow moving forum, no one is paying very close attention.Had this thread been in the Climbers Board, I'd have moved it to Spray where the level of insult would be quite unremarkable. Was the degree of spray levelled at Alpinelite and you any worse than what Mountainwerks and MVS got in the Mt Persis thread in Alpine Lakes? I don't think so, and that thread was not edited. (No longer specifically addressing Caveman's question) Where the "move the thread to Spray" ploy fails is when you have a substantive topic with useful information that gets overrun with page after page of MOS syndrome. Its a drag to have spray always trump real information. Thats when deleting posts (sure, call it censorshit) make sense, rather than having the same dozen personalities always reduce every topic to drivel. Then it comes down to the action deemed appropriate by a single moderator, though sometimes it gets discussed in the moderator forum. If you've got a problem with how a moderator handles a forum, complain to Jon or Tim (sorry guys) and if they agree they remove that moderator or give some kind of a warning. Part of the whole point in having moderators is so that Tim and Jon don't have to pay attention to all the petty crap on a daily basis, so as administrators they delegate some of their authority to people they think might manage the board in ways they would find acceptable. No doubt about it, I wouldn't find this board as interesting without the spectrum of fierce personalities that inhabit this place, but I also value the range of other folk who post here, from David Whitelaw to Colin to Don Serl: folks who never spray but have much to offer, as well as people new to the game and looking for information and experience. I think its important that everyone has a place on this board, which is why spray should stay in Spray.Thats not to say that banter and conversation don't belong in Trip Reports, its the stuff exchanged in dialogue that makes Trip Reports here so much more useful and entertaining than the more arid postings to be found at Summitpost or Bivouac (not intended as an insult to those boards).Anyway, enough babble from me. I'll leave you with a poll:Is CC.com a democracy?No

Hah! And to think I actually felt sorry for you when Crazy Polish Bob climbed up your backside for declaring Lunatic Fringe "extreme."

Heads up ya'll, a quick websearch suggests that Shahid Saleem is in fact the head of that branch of the Alpine Club. Coordinator : Alpine Club(Faisalabad Branch). Welcome Shahid.

On the plus side, it would be a memorable experience (good or bad, memorable either way), you're young(ish), and from what is apparent on this board, unattached. How long is the commitment? One year could be easy, three could be difficult. Can you talk to anyone else who has lived there? I'm assuming like most of Baffin it is a native village. I'm not at all familiar with the bands up there, but down in the states different tribes have a pretty wide range of response to (white) outsiders. We have a number of friends and persistent connections from my wife's seven years working at the Nisqually Tribe, but a friend who taught on the Navajo Rez for a year never once saw the inside of anyone's hogan. Come to think of it, maybe time is the critical issue, because I don't know that Faith's first year (as Tribal Librarian) was that replete with social invitation.

I've got one of those, and it actually saw service just this last summer, as did the old Salewa crampons with the flashy brown neoprene straps. Its only 25 years old, I need to make sure I get my money's worth out of it. Now if I could just find my old coathanger ice screws and the knickers I made out of a pair of Belgian Army pants I'd be styling.

I thought Saddam Hussein was older than President Bush, so how does that work?

Yeah, like that old joke about why women make terrible carpenters. (Physical action: hold up your right hand thumb and forefinger a comfortable distance apart) Because they've always been told that this is 10 inches. (sound effect: rim shot)

Its a good question Harry. The answer is that websites tend to be private property, not public, so you really have no first amendment rights here, anymore than you can go inside a mall and say or protest about anything you want. I suggest re-reading the terms and conditions you agreed to when you registered on this site. Rest assured though, unlike in your homeland, nothing you say here will result in an extended stay in Drapchi prison. Ray, sans the gratuitious insults, you've posed a good question. What are the guidelines for conduct and moderation in the various forums here? I suggest we hold that thought until everyone is back from playing on this lovely weekend and is back at work so they can participate in the discussion. Addendum: Sorry Harry, didn't you used to be Chinese? Ah well, change Drapchi to Taejon Prison.

Thats like one of those "is the glass half full or half empty" kind of tests, right? I'd assumed Dru wanted to increase the stars on some of his ratings...