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it's a family activity kipping tutorial so many fun ways to do pullups

The point of this thread is to provide a location to compile reports FROM the SAR people. Due to inability of people to understand this point, and continuing to ask pointless, irrelevant, and unanswerable questions that many find offensive in their intrusiveness, I am locking this thread. If you wish to post to this thread, PM Off White, gapertimmay or myself for access. As has been stated a number of times, the SAR report will be posted here when it is ready. Discussion may be appropriate afterwards, not before.

I asked Greg Glassman (the crossfit guy) about his experience with training of paraplegics. He seemed to think that without engaging the lower extremities and torso you are pretty inhibited in how much cardiovascular respiratory stress you can put on your body, and the training becomes limited by local muscular stamina. I.e. your arms will tire out before your lungs and heart get a pounding. I would expect this is particularly true if your CVR endurance is already well conditioned from your activities with full body function and your disability is a temporary one.

I think this is a key point to Sleazy's post:

what makes you think it was the pullups and not the bike ride that did it? there's been lots of good info in the fitness forum on shoulder problems, numbness, compartment syndrome. Bike riding postures exacerbating shoulder problems related to tight pectorals. Maybe Mike Layton will jump in with better details than I can. 'Maintaining' range of motion isn't going to help much in the long term if your current range of motion sucks. In my experience one of the best exercises I have found that combines a quality pec/chest/anterior shoulder stretch with a posterior shoulder/lats/biceps etc. 'resistance' movement is a gymnastic 'kipping' pullup.

as a moderator I want to pass on my thanks to those of you non-moderators who help keep things on track in various ways. In an ideal world this site could be self-moderating along the guidelines we all learned in kindergarten. I believe cc.com has a history and continued potential to be a great resource, as well as daily entertainment. It is disappointing when some people try to turn it into a narrow-minded pulpit or childish sandbox.

I am locking this thread now due to length. Please continue in the other thread. other thread link click here

NOTE This is a closed thread, the second of two relating to the recent search on Mt Hood. This thread is not open to comment or additions, but is kept at the top of the forum as a source of information and chronology for those interested in events and research. Off White - moderator at Cascadeclimbers.com _____________________________________________________________ I am locking the other thread due to it getting to an unmanageable length. Please continue here. Same rules. old thread click here

Welcome to the site Phil. As others have mentioned, this particular thread is not the appropriate one for discussing the judgement poor-or-wise of these climbers, or any other climbers for that matter. The focus of THIS thread is continuing up-to-date information on the search, and providing a link for the dispersed family and friends of the lost 3. We (the mods and admins of this bulletin board) would prefer that posts in THIS thread remain positive, and on-topic. If you, or anyone else would like to engage in a discussion on the wisdom of climbing choices, either in general or in specific to a particular incident, you are welcome to start another thread in "The Climber's Board", or search our archives for the many times this topic has come up in the past. Thank you

looks just like what Rambles Center looked like yesterday - only 400km more driving away.

ARC has been banned, however the individual may reappear as another avatar and may not be immediately recognized. So as a buyer/trader you should be wary of sketchy characters, and defend yourself from scams as best you can. I am locking this thread. It does not need spray If you have something relevant to add w.r.t. helping people who have been cheated by this person PM me, or another Mod and we will give you access to this thread. Other avatars this individual has used: Crampon Divot Icefall Joey If you have had sour dealings with any of these please let us know.

Jackass was actually kinda brittle was that your rig with the sea kayak? that's Chris's car. My truck was in east van leaking a puddle of power-steering fluid all day looked like all the best ice was on the other side of the river as usual. Next cold snap in the canyon I am bringing a boat.

Green Canyon, good pie but no ambiance.

Chris's gear is all shitty and broken, both crampons popping off, both tools breaking, blunt screws. But he put the rope up the Happy Boy curtain and bought me pie later. So I will climb with him again sometime. The first pitch of Jackass was fun, brittle blobby cauliflowers and ice daggers hanging overhead, then a short squeeze chimney with no room to swing crampons or tools. Top pitch was just the wrong side of stable-looking. There was a climbable line, but it thinned down to only about 1 foot thick around the gushing hole at 2/3rd height. One day earlier it would have been fine.

The first pitch of Jackass was fine and fun climbing on Saturday. Entropy was well formed and mostly dry bottom to top on Sunday though we bailed early due to sickness. Entropy was maybe even fat enough to survive a short warm spell this week. The Fig Plucker climbs would have been climbable too in sporty style with stubbies, but they are going to fall apart with any warming.

after cogitating I decided that I think the original post is right. If you can do 15 pullups but can't climb WI4 then your technique must be worse than suck. WI4 is not even vertical. Also I think that if you can link 15 crossfit-style kipping pullups with good rhythm and pace you are probably closer to good ice-climbing technique than if you can do 15 static deadhang pullups (or worse, typical gymrat 1/2 ROM chins) but can't kip. Also I think that my choice for the top 3 exercises that would improve my conditioning for ice climbing they would be pullups (on bar, rings, tools, L-pullups, windshield wipers etc. - basically hanging off my arms and moving my body around), deadlifts, and swinging actual ice-tools with extra head weight (I add weight to mine by taping on sockets from my wrench set).

at the moment the hardest part of onsighting man of leisure might be locating the trail to it through the epic salal and windfall jungle. from anecdotes it seems like the lower .10a cruxy move on Rock On is frequently mis-read by first timers.

The Mt. Harvey ramp is not 'avalanche safe' all the time, safe climbing is condition dependent as with most steep snowy terrain. An avalanche course is a great idea. Be sure to use the opportunity to do some extra-curricular quizzing of your instructor about your climbing objectives. Often those courses will be focused towards backcountry ski-travel with no consideration for winter climbing.

here's some nice definitions from Jim Cawley. Strength is #3: if you work at improving all 10 skills, by whatever training regime you like, then your climbing will improve. Skip development in any area and you will probably find that area becomes your mode of failure in performance. For example in climbing (ice or rock) many times arm strength is blamed when what is actually lacking is the balance, flexibility and coordination to transfer weight to the feet.

what's your background in assessing avalanche hazard?

valleycliffe access is closed at the Y junction under the hospital, and there is a slide blocking the stawamus in the vicinity of the Sheriff's Badge trail. The only access into valleycliffe is up hospital hill and through the unpaved gated connection to Plateau Drive, 1 way traffic only. Could be a few days. Lots of trees still down on power lines along the highway and no repair crews in sight.

technique is the efficient application of the strength you have. more strength = more opportunity for technique. why would anyone want to be a weakling just so they could brag about technique? better to brag about both.

I think you are probably right. The point I was making was that when the terminus retreats by some amount you get 100% loss of ice thickness in that area, if you take that lost volume and distribute it as an average over the whole area you can get a number that is much bigger than any point loss of depth well upstream in the glacier. But even taking that approach 65' per year would require a whole lot of terminal retreat too. the World Glacier Monitoring Service has published global glacier mass balance numbers for 1990-2000 (Blue Glacier is in there) in PDF format if you want numbers unfiltered by journalistic misunderstanding. http://www.geo.unizh.ch/wgms/mbb.html

65 feet on average over the whole glacier surface. If the terminus of cross-section Y times Z retreats back X feet then there is a loss of XYZ cubic feet of ice. Divide XYZ by the total area of the glacier (typically just the planar area measured from a map or sat photo) and you get the average depth lost. It's not necessarily a true depth lost at any given point in the glacier. or maybe it is a misquote/interpretation by the writer ... dunno

it's essentially the same retraced fig 8 you would use to tie into the rope. As long as you dress it properly and pre-cinch it tightly why would it be any more likely to unravel under load than your tie-in is in a fall? there is a good reason for sticking to the common repertoire of climbing knots and not innovating with all manner of obscure sailing knots and bends - which is that just about any other observant person in the gym or at the crag will be able to check your knots and see when things are amiss in your rigging. wikipedia