korrigan

It was a monte python cue not kung foo sheesh... back to the board with you to come up with a more humorous response.

How shall I piss off master?

Ya know those of you talking shit to ashw are the ones who should be pissing off. The guy posts some reasonable remarks and gets hammered with all this psuedo sympathy/ grief 'I knew the person or a person who knew the person who knew the person'... what a crock. I don't see where an opinion about the cables has anything remotely to do with the B.S. responses, nor do I see where the tone can be construed as appropriate for what were reasonably stated opinions. Whatever honor or memory you might have wished to go with this person has just turned into spray. You lose boneheads... perhaps you should just join the many who will say things about 'dying doing what you love or some other such BS when the fact remains that if the cables weren't there this person would be alive and pointing that out is not a bad thing. Kind of like a mountain road with no guardrail. If somebody slid off in the rain driving home don't you think it would be relavent to mention the facts of the situation? Or is anything other than a bunch of me too grief whore responses inappropriate? Before you spew on me keep in mind I don't have an opinion about the cables only about self rightous f'ks. People die it's tragic and sad and I feel bad for those involved, but using it as an excuse to browbeat someone or whatever is just sick and wrong. Don't you guys have a mountie get together to attend or something?

Finally I have an excuse. And here I always thought it was my fault. I guess I should disband Assholes Anonymous :-( It was a good club while it lasted with many members who didn't even know they belonged.

Ohh Ohh Mountie bashing can I play?? This is sooo much fun. Ya know the reason the mounties suck is because they have a top down organizational structure which attracts people who want to be 'leaders'. These 'leaders' have an innate need to be seen as more than who they are. It's not about 'teaching the love' (gag me with a pitchfork) it's about being the 'leader' and nothing more. This kind of lemmings aproach to learning isn't just issolated to the mounties but is the normal route that people with no self confidence or sense of adventure get into things that they probably shouldn't, while being led by people like themselves who've gained an unjustified sense of importance and ability from their new found 'adventurousness' and therefore shouldn't lead. The mounties want such people to believe that by following their 12 step program and carrying the 10 essentials the mountains can be encountered safely, and that once the coolaide has been injested they are in a position to judge all and instruct all who might deign to enter their domain. Ahhh the satisfying release of yet another rant about anonymous people who annoy me...

And so another fairly interesting thread comes to an ignoble end

This is getting confusing. Chuck I think you and I agree about the first double set just above the finger crack, in the corner. The next double set that I recall must be the ones selkirk is refering too and they are indeed shitty and about 50 meters above the good set in the corner. Oddly they are about 5 feet apart so they don't look like a belay to me and I didn't have any good gear there backing them up. It's a death belay IMO. But it still doesn't make sense to belay there even if the bolts are replaced because there is a good ledge about 6 feet above. I think that shitty set should have one good one there. Maybe something down below on that pitch should be replaced as well? I just remember it being a bit spooky. A 60 does in fact reach from the bush all the way up past the two antiques to the ledge just above. If you're not sure or don't have a sixty then belay on the small stance as you exit the corner as was described by someone above. There is good gear there for a belay. That makes sense to me and if there were a topo it should say to do that. I've never seen so much confusion over where to belay on a route in my life and I think the bolts contribute to it. There shouldn't be any hanging belays on Orbit. The worst cases would be the belay part away accross the ramp and the tiny stance above the corner. In general though I agree with the sentiments of selkirks rant. Orbit needs a few protection bolts and has some, they should be good. But the 'belay's' should not be on bolted anchors.

If you're talking about the bolts in the corner just above the finger crack and bush/block then I believe they are quite good. I was just there about two weeks ago and my memory is that at least one of them is bomber. Maybe it's been replaced since you were last there. I wouldn't call those shitty bolts. But then maybe my memory is fuzzy. I wasn't belaying off of them but I remember feeling very secure after clipping them which means they must have been good since I'm not known for the hardness or size of my sack. I do have to disagree with your assesment that belaying there makes sense. It doesn't. There should be one protection bolt there but no belay.

This route shouldn't be that hard to follow. Set up belays where you think is appropriate. I didn't see the sense in the two bolt hanger in the dihedral nor in the two ancient bolts about 50 meters higher. This was my beta and it worked fine with a 60m rope. Without one of those you might have to (gasp) think for yourself. You sure as hell don't need to carry a topo up the thing. Simple logic here. If you are climbing on dirt you're off route go back to the clean stuff and stay on it. The damn thing goes basically straight up anyway?? So here's the beta I had: Belay at top of chimney on first pitch. Next pitch goes all the way to the bush above the 5.9 finger section. The pitch after that goes all the way to the big ledge towards the top of the difficulties. Both those pitches are about 60m. Save some mid sized cams for the belay at the big ledge. After that you should be able to figure it out for yourself but if not just go all the way to the humungous ledge below where it get's really easy. The bolt's in the Dihedral are good and you could belay there but why when there's a comfy stance in the bush just below. You can also belay up around the corner as has been described but why when you can stretch the rope up the face to to the ledge above. I certainly don't think the bolts should be chopped because I thought the pro going up the dehedral was marginal and the bolt was a welcome thing. I wouldn't have wanted to be the first person to try going from the bush up through the dihedral all the way to the ledge above but knowing ahead of time that it's possible helps just a wee bit. Without foreknowledge the sensible way seems it would be this: Go up the chimney and belay part way out the '5.2??' ramp on the slings. Go up the ramp do the hard section and belay at the bush. Go right into the dihedral pass the bolt belay up around the corner and belay at the tiny stance as described. Then go up to the big ledge. From the big ledge go up the crack out right to the knobs and up to the humoungous ledge a the top. From there I don't really know how one is supposed to go I just go up trying to stay on clean stuff as much as possible.

yes according to the person who put that first bolt there you go straight up not down and left. It could be just shock that keeps me from thinking it was harder. I felt pretty secure after I clipped that bolt and the rest of the climb seemed casual in comparison to that 15 feet or so above the bad belay.

I went down and left from the bolt just above where you've marked bad belay and it says 10a. I'd been told to look left for a crack after clipping a bolt but I'd expected that to be on the next pitch. I got a'fused. I agree with your pitch two belay location. The bad belay is spooky cause the bolts aren't good and it's backed up by a cam in a flake wedged in the corner that seems good. Above that the rock isn't very good and the only pro is an old pin. A fall would land you on the belayers head if you're at the bad belay. Needless to say that's a 'bad belay'.

I did that manuever on two pitches. The first one to a truly delicate flake, like too delicate to bother putting gear in. That particular bolt is a new button head just after the spooky rock in the middle of the dihedral. My buddy says you go up past that bolt not down and left. Going down and left isn't too smart cause if the flake blows or you fall you'll slam hard back into the dihedral. I really don't recomend doing it that way although it is pretty easy about 5.7 or 8. The last pitch of the dihedral we belayed in the guano then out left past a bolt a #1 cam and to the flake. I didn't put any gear in that flake to avoid rope drag, but climbed up to a very long chord hanging off the top which I clipped then right to another flake, stuck gear in that one then down and right to a foothold and then up and back into the dihedral. From thence over the roofs. Belayed just above the second roof/corner cause I was outa gear.

Climb: Snow Creek Wall-Mary Jane Date of Climb: 10/16/2006 Trip Report: Brad and I did Mary Jane this weekend. It took us 5 1/2 hours to do. We should beat ourselves up for being slow. Middle pitch of the dihedral is kinda spooky above the two bolts. I'd belay down on the slabby crack below that so you're not climbing right above the belayers head through that funky rock. I think I screwed up on that pitch because I went down and left to a delicate flake after clipping the button head. I think I was supposed to go straight up, but after too many years being involved with mary jane I got my signals mixed up about which pitch one was supposed to look left for a crack. That pitch BTW is the last one in the corner which is cool but unusual. It doesn't look like continuing up the corner gets done much if at all. Going over the roofs is cool and well protected. They are not as hard as they look. Now get back to work. Gear Notes: I'd bring up to a 3 1/2 friend. Just a standard rack is all you really need. And of course not falling in many areas would be wise.

Yes it's a troll. Korrigans and trolls are closely related. But it seems I've done well. Although I need a squeegie to get off some of the spray on my monitor it's generated a good bit of discussion as well as clued me into some other possibilities on SCW that I had over looked. I still think a bolt here or there can really add to a route. I'll never forget the bolt on the headwall pitch of South Face of Warlock Needle. I hadn't expected it but was so glad it was there. Even so the pitch was pretty wild for a non hard man like myself. Discussing bolts is like discussing politics though. Nothing is ever accomplished. Fun though.

The JG's thread got me to thinkin bout dem bolt nazis. Having done Orbit last weekend which could IMO use a couple a new bolts or at least one to replace what is there and seeing the acres of climbable ground and rarely climbed ground going to lichenous waste I get's to tinkin, or is it tinkling? If it weren't for the bolt nazis and the inevitability of chopping by said anita briants of the rock SCW could have a lot of good climbing. Then maybe all the spray masters wouldn't have to line up on OS and make threats of violence against gumbies who spend the day on it. Take the 'lost' variation on Orbit. Having not gone that way I can only assume the reason people don't succeed on it if it's only 10a is because of dirt and a lack of bolts, the two of which go hand in hand in warshinton if ya'll haven't noticed. Or what about the upper section of things like remorse or completely unclimbed ground. Sure it's great to stroke your wank about how you once did those things and they were once done back in the 70's or whatever, but the fact remains that those climbs or variations on climbs aren't done. And the fact remains that washington has very little sizable cragging to be done and SCW is one of the few offerings of such a thing. If wank stroking is what you like there's a whole world of hard unclimbed stuff waiting for you, get outa town, take a road trip, spray about it when you return. Would the world really come to an end if there were some bolts up there so that the rest of us could climb? Sure we aint got the sack that you hard men have, hell some climbers don't even have a sack. But think of how you could spray about when you did it there were no bolts there and such. How cool would that be? In the meantime while you are all ballancing beer glasses on your ever growing bellies and threatening to chop cause the 'kids these days don't know nuttin" some of us could be out enjoying great rock up off the ground in a nice place. I guess I just don't understand why a few people who once risked their lives on some crazy stunt get to make decisions for the rest of us. That argument was had decades ago in Colorado and the stunt masters lost. Is Colorado now some kind of lost world of suckiness because there are bolted routes everywhere? Seems to me it's actually easier to climb in areas that have added bolt routes because the decent and interesting climbs that require gear are less crowded. Just think how many annoying LA types would descend on Josh if it weren't for Williamson or whatever it is called being close by. Where would all the people from Seattle go if it weren't for the thankless and hard work of those putting up routes in Leavenworth and I90? I'll tell you where they'd go. Snow Creek Wall to climb outer space, Classic Crack, Givlers Dome, and Castle Rock. That's how it was when I learned to climb in diapers back in the days when men were men. I'm all for bolts. I don't want to see everything look like a gym or crack lines retroed. Make 'em spicy, place the bolts well and distance them to be appropriate for a climber at that grade. Me I'm gettin my Bosch out and headin for SCW now. Too bad ya'll are workin or you could stop me.