Jens

How come every Tom, Dick, and Harry seems to have a key to this gate except me or any of my friends? *I would say the route is more fun when snow covers to talus on the approach up from the basin. *Speaking of the route, I went in last and year and climbed the route by myself and seemed to have left my 5.10 tennis shoes up there. Did anybody pick them up? *the summit register needs a pencil. theri was pleanty of paper but no enteries for a while (due to lack of pencil). I guess this is one that the rangers haven't got to yet.

Not that I give a shit about any of this banter but... Why would anbody not believe Colin especially if he has pictures and gear? Perhaps I missed something but: Donkeykong and agent orange: Went in and tried the couloir route, bailed, and then hiked out the next day correct? If that is the case, they may be hardmen but they sure don't get any hardman points in my book. That hike out only takes a few hours even with big packs. Any hardman would have been able to make it back into Gustav's for a pint on the same day as bailing. Also a Cascade hardman would have known that it is not "heinous" to acess the North ridge from the ice cliff side, especially this time of year. A few hours can make a huge difference in posthole depth and the tiniest wind blows crfystals across the glacier.

Funny you should bring this up. I will be in almost the exact same boat. I will most likely be taking my non-climber wife through Yosemite in July. As a psuedo Yosemite veteran, I am opting to take her to a more "civilized" campground. She likes the car camping experience. In July, the dust from the dirt parking lot blows through camp 4 like a cattle drive. Plus when you miss getting a site, laying out a pad and sleeping bag on the ground at dusk is not her cup of tea. Have fun

Nice climb guys. cascadeclimber and I were the dudes that turned around. We were stupid by sleeping at home and getting a late start. I guess when I was sunbathing shirtless on the way up, it should have given me a clue. We were postholing on the approach where we saw your crisp crampon tracks- (Grade 8 monos?) I clung to the fixed anchor with my hands below the crux pitch for dear life as I was nearly scoured from the route. I din't have any way to clip in as cascade climber had the rack and rope and was still coming up the lower stuff. I thought I was toast. Next year we'll start ealier.

What would the cruxes be like? (nature of)

I think Cavey is right about the nest being over on Noontime this year. I have been over most areas of midnight this spring and have not seen the nest . I did see feathers from a fresh kill though. I read in the paper this spring that the perigrine falcon is being taken off the "threatened"? list and in the last two years numbers have exploded. Any biologists out there? I don't feel like climbers need to lose vast areas of real estate anymore because the falcon situation has changedin the last 12 months. It could be..........those Leavenworth rangers that EVERYBODY hates.

I was told that the polished rock that makes up the prevously mentioned crisco slab came from deep underwater near where I used to lifeguard-- Lake Spanaway.

Back to the topic.. Jeff Smoot does the best rock guides around here both historically and at present. They may not make the most sense sitting on your sofa, but they make a lot of sense when you are at the crags. I really like the mini paragraph with a bit of trivia about routes. As for bouldering. It's cool and I dig it but bouldering guides are lame. Sharma's got it right on the money. No need to assign a number or rating to problems. The industry and mags hate it though. Numbers sell products.

Of the routes being discussed: Centerfold (as well as much of index) is perhaps overhyped in my humble opinion. Swim is really footworky and felt really stout for the grade. DH to Lovin' arms is one of the few free routes up there that sees enough traffic to stay somewhat clean. So many of those bolted routes up there were scrubbed big time with a wire brush (about 12 years ago), saw a short period of traffic and then grew over. -not much fun Just my two centsI'm in the minority on these thoughts though.I rarely go to index anymore

Thanks for the replies. It turns out that one of my buddies is getting the time off from work. We're headin' south for the Salathe' Wall. Perhaps I'll see everyone at the next Eastside pub club. Jens [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Jens ] [ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Jens ]

This seemed like a nice place to get away from other climbers. I climbed the East face of Chimney rock several summers ago. The rock is poor but the whole package is cool. The sport climber in me drooled at the massive overhanging west face of Chimney rock.It is to bad this place isn't more accesibile in the spring for ski moutanineering. It would be really cool. My climb was done car to car in a day and I remember cartwheeling like a klutz down through the woods as I stepped on a bees nest and getting stung. Question: Is the Chimney glacier the closest real glacier to Seattle as a CROW flies? It has got be closer than the moutnain loop stuff.I'll be willing to bet yes. This area deserves more climbers in my humble opinion.

Some of my friends have gotten tickets. I sometimes go permitless since I prefer to climb without bivouacing. Is the trick just to ignore somebody who looks innocent and just comes up to you to make small talk when you are without a permit? Or is it guys in full on uniforms that confront you? Do plainclothes rangers just strike up conversations and then ticket you when you tell them about your climb? Could anybody help me out with this? As for the previous topic:In my humble opinion, do the RMI 6 day course. I haven't been guided since the 80's but RMI seems to have some things going for them. They know the weather patterns that Rainier creates better than anyone, hands down. Many of us, (myself included) may spend more total days out of the year in crampons than their guides but for the months of July and August they are in them constantly. They know their turf very very well. Bear in mind their niche is pretty much only guiding glaciated snow climbs. Others may have other opinions though. I would guess that when a young soul tries out for RMI or any guide service, Charisma comes into play (anbody have any first hand experience?) As a former professional ski instructor, the ability to speak to groups was a big part of the try out. As for the Euro guies, to be taken into the fold and employed at Chamonix, I'd bet you'd have to be a 5.12 sport climber, 5.11 crack climber, WI5 climber, Lead new wave A 4, be an expert skier, and slog the big snow hills in a pretty fast time. I guess that eliminates almost every WA guide.Just some spray for thought.Others are more versed in what is going on.Have fun this Summer.

Issaquah Brewhouse Directions: 30 feet off front street across from the new Issaquah library. On the south side of i-90.-----------------------------------------------------------Everybody bring beer money so we can get F.B. drunk and get him to compare his 'little black book" to what ideas we've got. -That is if he shows. And how about some drunken bouldering on the beams on the new Issaquah Library? Maybe we'll even get a few of them gym rats to show! Peace Out DawgKeep it real

I try to keep in mind the geology of the area. *A lot of the WA peaks are made up of pretty compact rock. Unless you are climbing a granite peak you can often sneak by with never bringing along any thing lager than a #1.5 friend. On the northeast face of Johannesberg I din't see a crack the whole day larger than a quarter of an inch. *INMHO WA winter climbers should replace some of their pickets with more deadmen. *You will almost never need as many screws as people say for a winter alpine route in this state. *Lots of people get into the "It's winter or I'm ice climbing so my next rock placement will be a piton." - the cracks aren't always iced up in the winter. Think fast and light. Easy in easy out. I'm sure the next guy who posts will have his or her own opinions. Bottom line/ whatever fits your style for fast effecient climbing. just my two cents "climb hard" ---Rheinhold Whittaker

Yes, those Amera-Trails guys are lame. Once I went to drive up that road to climb dragontail. Those guys beat us and locked the gate by like 5 minutes. The road was completely melted out but they said they would open in the next day. We had to walk the whole friggin dirt road. We should have just gone sport climbing. The road had previously been opened for short periods. Another time they forced a whole bunch of us to stay at 8mile campground for a couple hours because of a washout down near the clamshell cave trailhead. Yes, there was a washout, but people had been getting though much sooner than the 3 hours that the Amer trails dudes blocked all of us in. At least a retired couple in their winebeggo gave us some free beer. I have had Ok experiences most places with us forest service people except for leavenworth. Those guys are not only clueless but lame.

Fred, I sure hope you are just f8*&^%ing! with us. If you are serious, this really blows. The Leavenworth rangers seem to the most clueless idiots of all the forest servcie rangers. (no bridge foot traffic?) I smell another motive here.

Once I saw a man just below muir on his way up with one suitcase in his left hand, an 80's vintage camcorder in his right ( in a plastic case), dress shoes, slacks, and a members only jacket tied around his waist. He said he had just flew in to Sea Tac earleir on (about 8 hours ago) from somewhere like south carolina. He claimed he was doing the tourist thing and was going to make a summit bid that day. The way the guy was talking, I bet he did try to keep going higher above muir. I saw some dudes tie their first ever prussik knots with hemp cords at 14 thousand on Denali. And learn to lash on crampons to their True Value hardware sorrels.

Sounds like you guys had fun. Climbing over the rock the way you guys did into the final couloir can sometimes be nasty If it is getting a full on runoff of meltwater. When completely soaked and without any ice, the section is easily M5 whereas the "crux" of climbing directly from the 1st couloir into the second couloir if thickly iced is slabby by modern standards. Also both variations share about 75 percent of the same terrain and many springs their is little or no ice to be found on the "crux". Who cares--- it is all climbing.Keep it real.

Pretty cool that some dudes climbed the route in 1982. Some people really keep mum around here. Perhaps to mum sometimes. Oh well, it'sall just for fun anyways. I was pretty young but didn't the winter of 82 see quite a bit of snow? And 83 was the year that we didn't get much?

Not sure about any little Yosemite. I grew up down and in pierce county and used to scratch around a lot down there. I have done some new obscure routes at the Eatonville crag. The cliff has rock quality that is complete shit -- garbage is about 500 feet high, not really a little Yosemite. It could be a quarry down there that a hardman took me to years ago but I am sworn to secrecy of. The cliffs in the high rock lookou t are big but garbge rock.

I left the wrist portion of my android leash out there somewhere yesterday. If you happen to grab it, please send me a pm. I think I left it either between the second and third tier of Icy BC or at the top of no deductible. Thanx

The little sporting goods shop in Lillooet used to have some faily heavy outdoor boots. You could have bought a pair and then lashed a carmpon to it with two dozen or so zip ties and cordage. I'm sure you could follow pitches with one good boot and one light duty boot. Delcate work andFrench technique when you could. My trango extremes that I climb ice with have an upper as soft as the basketball shoes I wore in fourth grade. I even ski a little with them or should I say proceed to faceplant every 10 feet. At least you are heading up to the rockies to get some mileage. Have fun.

Since we are on this topic, Has anybody ever skiied the Northeast Couloir on Dragontail? That one has been on my hit list for a long time. Probably would want to carry in full monty alpine ski geat for it. Not my flimsy randonee' stuff.

I highly recommend the chairlift option. It is really fast. Drop into International and take the highest gate. A few problems though.*The guys working avy control know their stuff but they will often keep the backcountry "closed" even on days when the risk is tolerable. *They often keep the highest gate enterance closed even when all of the rest of the backcountry is open so they can have the reign supreme on all of us having to take the low and slow traverse gate. (although the highest traverse gate is a little more avy prone.)*The lift ops check tickets almost every single minute of the day and night at alpental. Also please do not try to get on the lift without skis or a snowboard on. Even though the local 18 year old lift op may let you on with snowshoes or on foot, it is not good PR for future climber access. *Climbers have a delicate working realtionship here, remember the mindset that patrolmen and all other area employees are always right. Please be polite. I was a ski instructor up at the pass for a lot of years.Have fun PS. How's the TAV? I miss Eburg.

To all reading this thread. If you must climb at this one little spot, (when it is in) please try to use it on Mondays when Alpental is closed.